GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

[Ironside]

Just to point out the CPS are only in England and Wales, Scottish Law has the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal instead.
http://www.crownoffice.gov.uk

 

[Ironside]

Thanks. I have been to Glasgow and went to King Tuts for a gig. It seemed very busy in the area when we went for pre-drinks. Pubs were packed but on the way back to my friends place (Berryknowes Road, I think it was?) it was pretty quiet people wise. We went to a huge park while I was there aswell actually. I wonder if it was the same one.

If you went to King Tuts you probably went for pre-drinks on Sauchiehall St which has lots of bars. This would be the busiest area in Glasgow at night I'd say, much busier than where the Sanctuary club is.

Berryknowles is on the Southside of Glasgow all the places related to this case are Northside. I'd imagine Dorchester Ave would be as quiet at night as Berryknowles was. The park you went to was probably Pollock Park because that is nearby and is huge. There are a lot of parks in Glasgow!

 

[ChuckieD]

If you went to King Tuts you probably went for pre-drinks on Sauchiehall St which has lots of bars. This would be the busiest area in Glasgow at night I'd say, much busier than where the Sanctuary club is.

Berryknowles is on the Southside of Glasgow all the places related to this case are Northside. I'd imagine Dorchester Ave would be as quiet at night as Berryknowles was. The park you went to was probably Pollock Park because that is nearby and is huge. There are a lot of parks in Glasgow!

Possibly. We moved about a bit and got a few buses as we had to go to York Hill as my friend's son is a regular there unfortunately and to collect him from his uncle after our night out. Pollack does ring a bell though. I will ask her.

 

[MamaJoJo]

Unless someone actually shows you their gun you just wouldn't believe they even had one. I suppose it is automatic for Americans to assume gun.

I don't think he threatened her with anything in the club as she was surrounded by hundreds of people and could easily asked for help. Scottish people would instantly jump in and help a woman who was being harrassed by a creep.

I agree that he probably didn't threaten her in the club but he may have once they were outside. And, yes, you'd be surprised how people (at least Americans) are fooled by the mention of a gun when it's really just something hard (a wrench, let's say) is pressed against their back.

 

[Tricia]

https://www.facebook.com/GreaterGlasgowPoliceDivision/posts/1583269308577918

Though a long time lurker and very infrequent poster I'm not sure of the protocol here on things like this but I thought I should post this here:

Please note important advice from the Crown Office with regards the Pacteau case:
"Please note the Pacteau case is now live under Contempt of Court Act and nothing should be published that might prejudice the case."

If I'm breaking any rules I apologise.

This is a good question. Since we are a U.S. company, our rules are different. However the last thing we want to do is interfere with the prosecution of a case.

Let me do some digging and talk to some people and I will get back to you over the weekend.

Thank you for your patience.

Tricia

 

[gregjrichards]

Its not required for him to make any plea at this stage, nor is it unusual that he hasn't. The fact that he hasn't yet made any plea doesn't give us any clues about what will happen next or whether or not he will plead guilty.

However, I should note that the sub judice rules are stricter in Scotland than in the US, and bearing in mind what was pointed out by Ayrshirelass in post 881, we should be careful how much speculation is engaged in.

A plea will likely be entered at the second hearing next week according to this link please see the "Full Committal and Second Appearance Section" http://www.lemac.co.uk/resources/guides/Solemn_procedure.htm Apologies for getting the legal organisations for Scotland and the England and Wales mixed up I have amended my earlier post.

 

[gregjrichards]

Important information about the contempt of court order

Basically from the legal information available online we cannot discuss whether the accused is guilty or not guilty of the crime he is acaused of.


Information taken from article on the Mikaeel Kular case which had the same order.

"Media lawyer Callum Anderson said: “The Contempt of Court Act 1981 substantially restricts, in relation to criminal cases, what the media can and can’t publish.

“Any publication that creates a substantial risk that the course of justice will be seriously impeded or prejudiced is a criminal offence.

“Contempt of court is a serious offence and can be punished by up to two years in prison.

“The Act applies from when proceedings become ‘live’, which is usually when the accused is arrested.

“It does not just apply to newspapers or TV broadcasters, it also applies online to individuals including blogs, Facebook posts and tweets.

“Even retweeting the tweets of others would be a contempt of court if the material being retweeted caused a substantial risk of prejudice.

“Those posting material online need to do so responsibly and sensibly.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lawyers-warn-social-media-users-3040334

I think we should be very cautious about what we post until Tricia finds out further information

 

[gregjrichards]

Thanks. I have been to Glasgow and went to King Tuts for a gig. It seemed very busy in the area when we went for pre-drinks. Pubs were packed but on the way back to my friends place (Berryknowes Road, I think it was?) it was pretty quiet people wise. We went to a huge park while I was there aswell actually. I wonder if it was the same one.

Off topic I hope you all don't mind me asking-

I am going to King Tuts for the Echosmith gig a week tomorrow I've never been before. Is it a good venue? I hope they will keep a reserve seat for me because I can't stand for long due to my disability.

 

[ChuckieD]

Off topic I hope you all don't mind me asking-

I am going to King Tuts for the Echosmith gig a week tomorrow I've never been before. Is it a good venue? I hope they will keep a reserve seat for me because I can't stand for long due to my disability.

This was about 15 years ago. Awesome venue acoustically, one of the best I've been to. I honestly don't recall seating, we were stood, sorry

 

[dalsglen]

Off topic I hope you all don't mind me asking-

I am going to King Tuts for the Echosmith gig a week tomorrow I've never been before. Is it a good venue? I hope they will keep a reserve seat for me because I can't stand for long due to my disability.

Id give them a call. Its an amazing venue, very up close! The gig room is up some pretty steep stairs though, with no seating, although im pretty sure there has to be some kinda provision. Im sure theres a sorta ledge bit that folk sit/stand on, so get there super early

 

[ChuckieD]

Id give them a call. Its an amazing venue, very up close! The gig room is up some pretty steep stairs though, with no seating, although im pretty sure there has to be some kinda provision. Im sure theres a sorta ledge bit that folk sit/stand on, so get there super early

I think there's some bar stools. I went yo so many gigs in little venues I can't remember which is which. Stairs definitely ring a bell though.

 

[Irishguy]

The irish tabloids have some horrific headlines today in particular the Irish Sun, felt they should have laid off a bit for the sake of the Buckley family. Also pictures of AP in the Irish media and he looks a lot lighter than the picture that had been used the most on the web and TV, he still looks creepy.

 

[gregjrichards]

The irish tabloids have some horrific headlines today in particular the Irish Sun, felt they should have laid off a bit for the sake of the Buckley family. Also pictures of AP in the Irish media and he looks a lot lighter than the picture that had been used the most on the web and TV, he still looks creepy.

I feel the same way you do I wish the press would show some respect to the victim and their family in these circumstances rather than giving horrific headlines just to sell newspapers or get clicks online. I'm being very careful not to put any links here with photos of Karen's family.

 

[gregjrichards]

Id give them a call. Its an amazing venue, very up close! The gig room is up some pretty steep stairs though, with no seating, although im pretty sure there has to be some kinda provision. Im sure theres a sorta ledge bit that folk sit/stand on, so get there super early

Thanks for your replies dalsglen and ChuckieD I appreciate it. Yeah I'm going to call tomorrow or Monday and ask if they can keep a seat for me. I've been to some gigs at the 02abc and 02academy recently and they were great and I got a seat no problem. Hopefully the Echosmith gig will be just as good.

 

[Irishguy]

If only everybody had the respect you do Greg for victims families. I was listening to an Irish radio show earlier and the case was discussed, still wondering what the item of huge importance was that was handed in to Police. Also I remember media reporting earlier in the week that Karens clothing and other items belonging to her were found outside of the main search area at AP flat.

It seems he may have driven around disposing of Karens belongings at different locations.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/karen-buckley-missing-discovery-made-5527008

 

[ninij9]

Thank you, guessing he drove then. My guess is he whacked her to disorientate and incapacitate her to get her into the car and the rest happened once back at the flat. I just hope it was quick as we have an entire day and a half to account for.

Why oh why did Karen leave that club? I would really like to know how he convinced her to leave like that. Could he have told her that her friends had just left as she came out of the toilets maybe? But why would she believe him? Is Sanctuary a big place, would it take a while to walk around looking for somebody inside when it was very busy? Sorry I'm rambling but that is the one thing that is boggling my mind, why she left in the first place, I do not for a second believe she was interested in him romantically and I think it was something else.

Hello ChuckieD,

I have been wondering how he got her to walk with him as well, how about this:

Karen comes out of the toilet, he is there and says "excuse me miss, but I was just outside, around the corner having a smoke, and I saw a young lady you were with earlier. She is awfully sick, throwing up. She's sitting on the curb, I'm so worried. Could you come have a look"?

And off she goes, arms crossed against the cold, walking a wee bit behind this stranger. Off her guard because she is consumed with worry for her friend. Then she turns the corner, and he hits her with the wrench, and shoves her into his car. Pre-planned but opportunity had to present itself for this to work, and finally it did.
Awful sounding I know, but it makes sense to me more than her walking off to socialize with him. JMO.

 

[blefuscu]

So where else was she attacked with the spanner apart from the flat, according to the paper he is accused of hitting her with the spanner at Dorchester Avenue and another location.

Maybe he hit her initially to get her into the car and it was caught on CCTV? Maybe evidence of him hitting her in the car? Or there is evidence from blood spatter that he hit her in the shed?

 

[blefuscu]

Oh and I've been to King Tuts but it was quite a long time ago. Brilliant venue. I would call them up to make sure.

 

[Cappuccino]

The irish tabloids have some horrific headlines today in particular the Irish Sun, felt they should have laid off a bit for the sake of the Buckley family. Also pictures of AP in the Irish media and he looks a lot lighter than the picture that had been used the most on the web and TV, he still looks creepy.

The Irish Sun are dreadful, their coverage of the O'Dwyer case was prurient and disgusting and I bet their coverage of this case will be also.

 

[Irishguy]

The Irish Sun are dreadful, their coverage of the O'Dwyer case was prurient and disgusting and I bet their coverage of this case will be also.

I have to agree a paper with no standards,