GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

[Irishguy]

No mention of stabbing as the cause of death it chills me to think what the knife may have been used for after death. I've seen speculation about a Bon fire as well near the farm also Police asked people in the area if they had seen any Bon fires. When I heard this story first I feared the worst but it has turned out to be horrific beyond comprehension. To imagine a gentle intelligent Cork girl ending up like this is hard to imagine it makes me deeply sad.

 

[Ironside]

Hello ChuckieD,
I have been wondering how he got her to walk with him as well, how about this:

Karen comes out of the toilet, he is there and says "excuse me miss, but I was just outside, around the corner having a smoke, and I saw a young lady you were with earlier. She is awfully sick, throwing up. She's sitting on the curb, I'm so worried. Could you come have a look"?

And off she goes, arms crossed against the cold, walking a wee bit behind this stranger. Off her guard because she is consumed with worry for her friend. Then she turns the corner, and he hits her with the wrench, and shoves her into his car. Pre-planned but opportunity had to present itself for this to work, and finally it did.
Awful sounding I know, but it makes sense to me more than her walking off to socialize with him. JMO.

You wouldn't need go outside of the club for a smoke as there is a huge outside area out the back of the club for smokers. The cctv doesn't look like she is in a rush for anything. I've already described the area and it is really unlikely someone would preplan whacking a woman on the head with a spanner. I think people just don't want to believe she went willingly with him.

 

[fruity]

Important information about the contempt of court order

Basically from the legal information available online we cannot discuss whether the accused is guilty or not guilty of the crime he is acaused of.


Information taken from article on the Mikaeel Kular case which had the same order.

"Media lawyer Callum Anderson said: “The Contempt of Court Act 1981 substantially restricts, in relation to criminal cases, what the media can and can’t publish.

“Any publication that creates a substantial risk that the course of justice will be seriously impeded or prejudiced is a criminal offence.

“Contempt of court is a serious offence and can be punished by up to two years in prison.

“The Act applies from when proceedings become ‘live’, which is usually when the accused is arrested.

“It does not just apply to newspapers or TV broadcasters, it also applies online to individuals including blogs, Facebook posts and tweets.

“Even retweeting the tweets of others would be a contempt of court if the material being retweeted caused a substantial risk of prejudice.

“Those posting material online need to do so responsibly and sensibly.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lawyers-warn-social-media-users-3040334

I think we should be very cautious about what we post until Tricia finds out further information

We have had to be very careful in some of the Australian cases too (we have strict sub judice laws). I don't necessarily agree with the laws but I'm happy to follow the rules here because ultimately it is about justice for the families.

 

[cluciano63]

I am surprised that such details about the murder made it to the media, since this did not happen in the US. Wonder if it was intentional or leaked by mistake.

I have mixed feelings in that if a victim has had to sugger such a horrible death, the least the rest of us can do is to be aware of it...she went through it and it was a horrible, vicious crime against her, not anytning shameful. I have often heard family members say they want to know every last detail. Amber DuBois's mom went so far as visit her daughter's killer in prison and beg him to tell her every detail. But for shoddy papers to use details as headlines is wrong and should not be rewarded by purchase or clicks. Still...people are curious and will click...this sort of crime is rare in the UK (compared to US) and fascinates the public.

Still, I thought in the UK details like those we have read would not be released so as not to taint the jury and the case against him.

Jmo

 

[Irishguy]

Irish papers running with various stories in the morning including Karen was never at the flat,Police believe she was strangled in the park and Police have CCTV of AP purchasing a barrell the day after her death. Report also that a witness also heard her scream. Also some stories about AP past previously unreported. The front pages of tomorrow's papers with the stories mentioned can be seen on this link.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/

 

[Edinlass]

Wow, us in our own homeland aren't allowed this info but the Irish have it on tap & I can almost be certain that the stuff written is hugely frabicated! I know it's where she's from but I'm sorry that paper has went far too far IMO with the details! Beyond disgusting, and they should be prosecuted!!!

 

[Irishguy]

Wow, us in our own homeland aren't allowed this info but the Irish have it on tap & I can almost be certain that the stuff written is hugely frabicated! I know it's where she's from but I'm sorry that paper has went far too far IMO with the details! Beyond disgusting, and they should be prosecuted!!!

Sunday World and the mail are rags however I doubt it's fabricated. It shouldn't be printed but I doubt it's untrue.

 

[Irishguy]

Those papers also reporting Police have no evidence to suggest she was ever at his flat, papers saying he hit her repeatedly with a spanner from the boot of his car before strangling her. Papers also saying she was kept in the boot of the car over night before he decided what to do with the body. Paper also says Police still investigating if drink was spiked and CCTV captured him buying a barrell for 35 pounds the day after her death in a B&Q.

 

[Ironside]

Wow, us in our own homeland aren't allowed this info but the Irish have it on tap & I can almost be certain that the stuff written is hugely frabicated! I know it's where she's from but I'm sorry that paper has went far too far IMO with the details! Beyond disgusting, and they should be prosecuted!!!

It is a totally different country so they can pretty much print what they like about the case. A paper in the UK would not be allowed print such detail but there is no way a foreign publication can be prosecuted.

I don't think it helps the case at all printing this but the only thing that people can do about it is not buy these rags.

 

[ChuckieD]

You wouldn't need go outside of the club for a smoke as there is a huge outside area out the back of the club for smokers. The cctv doesn't look like she is in a rush for anything. I've already described the area and it is really unlikely someone would preplan whacking a woman on the head with a spanner. I think people just don't want to believe she went willingly with him.

Oh come on, she clearly willingly went with him. The question is why. There is nothing even slightly 'one night standish' about the CCTV, if you're off for a bit of alone time there would be touching, hugging, kissing, giggling, there is nothing like that in the CCTV - why did she go with him? What made her leave? It was not to have sex with that man and although I thought it didn't make sense before I saw CCTV it most certainly doesn't now I have. They were pointedly going somewhere for some reason. Why?

 

[Cappuccino]

Wow, us in our own homeland aren't allowed this info but the Irish have it on tap & I can almost be certain that the stuff written is hugely frabicated! I know it's where she's from but I'm sorry that paper has went far too far IMO with the details! Beyond disgusting, and they should be prosecuted!!!

Prosecuted for what? They're being extremely irresponsible, but they're outside the UK so they're not doing anything illegal.

 

[Ironside]

It is possible to have a one night stand with someone and not be hugging or kissing whilst walking down the street. I don't even hold hands with my partner on the street. You can't hear anything so can't say if there was giggling or not.

I'm totally baffled why she went to the park with him, Kelvingrove Park is only a minute away from the club and Dawsholm Park isn't really that great, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go there at 1am. I am starting to think maybe she was spiked with something like mdma. But if it was preplanned would he not have bought a barrel beforehand?

I can't work out where the cctv is from, it isn't the club as the road is on the wrong side. I think it could be church street but the camera on google maps is facing the wrong way for that. Possibly it could be the cctv of the pub on the corner called Gallus. The bin in the cctv it looks like a bin a business would have outside their premises.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Oh come on, she clearly willingly went with him. The question is why. There is nothing even slightly 'one night standish' about the CCTV, if you're off for a bit of alone time there would be touching, hugging, kissing, giggling, there is nothing like that in the CCTV - why did she go with him? What made her leave? It was not to have sex with that man and although I thought it didn't make sense before I saw CCTV it most certainly doesn't now I have. They were pointedly going somewhere for some reason. Why?

I tell you my thoughts:
I assume, that A knew that Karen was there with her friends.
When Karen came out of the toilet, A might have caught her in front of the toilet door and told her, one of her friends had been spiked, would be near his vehicle now and would need Karen's help. Then both Karen and A hastily went in this direction (Karen without her coat).
When Karen realized that A's information was wrong, she was certainly angry and swore at him. He would have liked to take her to his home, but she was upset because of his lie and of course refused. Surely he had been often rebuffed by women; this time the frustration overcame him and he struck his spanner or he choked Karen. - ONLY my THOUGHTS, how it could have been. :thinking:

 

[Elainera]

"Murdered student Karen Buckley was clubbed with a spanner and strangled, before being dumped in a barrel of acid, a Glasgow court heard yesterday."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/karen-buck...clubbed-spanner-strangled-dumped-acid-1497162

Just horrific I just hope she was unconscious when he strangled her.


Where did he get the acid I wonder?

This is a UK media source btw - International Business Times.

 

[Alyce]

It is possible to have a one night stand with someone and not be hugging or kissing whilst walking down the street. I don't even hold hands with my partner on the street. You can't hear anything so can't say if there was giggling or not.

I'm totally baffled why she went to the park with him, Kelvingrove Park is only a minute away from the club and Dawsholm Park isn't really that great, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go there at 1am. I am starting to think maybe she was spiked with something like mdma. But if it was preplanned would he not have bought a barrel beforehand?

I can't work out where the cctv is from, it isn't the club as the road is on the wrong side. I think it could be church street but the camera on google maps is facing the wrong way for that. Possibly it could be the cctv of the pub on the corner called Gallus. The bin in the cctv it looks like a bin a business would have outside their premises.

I think the park venue was his choice, I doubt Karen had any control over the situation by that point.

I also think murder was not planned - hence the purchase being made after the murder -

 

[Alyce]

Oh come on, she clearly willingly went with him. The question is why. There is nothing even slightly 'one night standish' about the CCTV, if you're off for a bit of alone time there would be touching, hugging, kissing, giggling, there is nothing like that in the CCTV - why did she go with him? What made her leave? It was not to have sex with that man and although I thought it didn't make sense before I saw CCTV it most certainly doesn't now I have. They were pointedly going somewhere for some reason. Why?

The reason why is very puzzling but, as I said in an earlier post, the footage says to me, she looks like someone who has been asked to go and assist with something - walking arms crossed and fairly fast - very businesslike manner, nothing romantic in any way.

 

[Clio]

Irish papers running with various stories in the morning including Karen was never at the flat,Police believe she was strangled in the park and Police have CCTV of AP purchasing a barrell the day after her death. Report also that a witness also heard her scream. Also some stories about AP past previously unreported. The front pages of tomorrow's papers with the stories mentioned can be seen on this link.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/

Papers from the court claim that on April 12 at his Dorchester Avenue flat and elsewhere, he repeatedly hit her on the head with a spanner, or similar object.

The murder charge also reads that Pacteau "compressed her neck".

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...rs-allege-pacteau-strangled-karen-672373.html

Sunday World and the mail are rags however I doubt it's fabricated. It shouldn't be printed but I doubt it's untrue.

Contradictory reports - can't both be true.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The reason why is very puzzling but, as I said in an earlier post, the footage says to me, she looks like someone who has been asked to go and assist with something - walking arms crossed and fairly fast - very businesslike manner, nothing romantic in any way.

It's the biggest part of the mystery to me - why she went with him in the first place. Her friends have apparently said it wouldn't be drugs, which was my initial instinct and the one that would make most sense in my opinion. I still think her arms were crossed because she was cold (1am in Glasgow would be pretty chilly) and I'm sure someone said earlier the CCTV was speeded up.

 

[ellie b]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...rs-allege-pacteau-strangled-karen-672373.html




Contradictory reports - can't both be true.

Yes well, I think we all know that newspaper reports generally are unreliable and often tell downright lies...

 

[Ironside]

I'm sure someone said earlier the CCTV was speeded up.

That was me but I retract that - I just watched it with a stopwatch and it is normal speed. I had assumed it was maybe double speed.
Still if I didn't have a coat I'd probably walk as fast or even faster than that, it was probably about 5 or 6 degrees c at that time of night (40f).