VERDICT WATCH UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #24

[tedtink]

We don’t know much about the drone, he could have been numerous times with it. Did he buy the drone, was it a gift? Maybe he got it as a Christmas present- they were popular. You can’t fly them over houses without permission so go to the nearest open land. A bloke down the road
From us had one and tried flying it over the village- well it was all over the Facebook community page and people were threatening to report him to the police for being a peeping Tom, quoting the law at him about where you can and can’t fly and how high and low you can be.

I find them intrusive.
Do all drones have camera's fitted I wonder?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Unfortunately, I think the drone is a bit of a red herring which is why they didn't make much of it in court.

I live very close to where PR did and if I got a drone I would go to ORPF to fly it. It's the obvious place.

You could be right. It would be interesting to see where else he used it (peeping, I would have thought).

It could also be one of the accepted facts/evidence the judge mentioned though, which as stand alone may not mean much but as part of a bunch, are more useful to their decision. Only guessing, I dont know.

 

[Dotta]

I can see how people think it is a big step up, but IMO not in the alleged circumstances.

Even looking at it as unplanned, which I am dubious about:

He attacks Libby, she fights and screams, he panics and puts his hand over her face to quiet her.

He knowingly applies enough force to cause her serious harm and in this case death...

Murder.

Now he has a big problem, a dead girl will be found with his dna. He needs to dispose of the evidence and quickly.

By luck (or pre planning), they are near the river. Problem solved, or so he thinks.

Off he goes, to crack on with the rest of his evening, fired up from what he has done (and what he thinks he got away with).

As I say, IMO.

We are going round and round in the same circles all the time. Everybody has their own theory and is not going to be convinced otherwise. Him running to and fro in the park seems too convulted for me and thus unbelievable. But of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am really interested though where are Libby's jacket and a top? Who took them off and where.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

The bickering over what a rape victim would or would not do is derailing the discusison. Please move on from there.

Thanks.

 

[tigerowl]

You could be right. It would be interesting to see where else he used it (peeping, I would have thought).

It could also be one of the accepted facts/evidence the judge mentioned though, which as stand alone may not mean much but as part of a bunch, are more useful to their decision. Only guessing, I dont know.

Actually, I agree. By itself, he's just flying a drone in the most obvious area in his locality, but it cannot be denied it would have given more info on the layout of the park than the average joe so as part of the whole could add more weight. If that was the case though, you would have expected the prosecution to highlight this as part of pre-meditation but it doesn't seem they did - but equally, it could have happened and just not been reported.

 

[C.greek]

I can see how people think it is a big step up, but IMO not in the alleged circumstances.

Even looking at it as unplanned, which I am dubious about:

He attacks Libby, she fights and screams, he panics and puts his hand over her face to quiet her.

He knowingly applies enough force to cause her serious harm and in this case death...

Murder.

Now he has a big problem, a dead girl will be found with his dna. He needs to dispose of the evidence and quickly.

By luck (or pre planning), they are near the river. Problem solved, or so he thinks.

Off he goes, to crack on with the rest of his evening, fired up from what he has done (and what he thinks he got away with).

As I say, IMO.

I agree with much of what you say though I don't think he planned to murder her on the outset but what would make me go for a guilty to murder was that she was found in the river, thus I think the evidence suggests he put her there (thereupon the murder charge and not manslaughter IMO). The scenario of Libby having a tragic accident and falling in the river would require for me at least more evidence - and it's not even the defence's suggested scenario.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

We don’t know much about the drone, he could have been numerous times with it. Did he buy the drone, was it a gift? Maybe he got it as a Christmas present- they were popular. You can’t fly them over houses without permission so go to the nearest open land. A bloke down the road
From us had one and tried flying it over the village- well it was all over the Facebook community page and people were threatening to report him to the police for being a peeping Tom, quoting the law at him about where you can and can’t fly and how high and low you can be.

The only thoughts I have is PR did not really seem to be concerned about breaking the law so I do not think he would have worried about flying his drone any where he wanted. We do not know if he flew it over houses but I suspect if he did we may have heard about it. We do know he flew it over the park the day before he abducted and raped Libby. How relevant that is we do not know. But is it interesting. MOO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Actually, I agree. By itself, he's just flying a drone in the most obvious area in his locality, but it cannot be denied it would have given more info on the layout of the park than the average joe so as part of the whole could add more weight. If that was the case though, you would have expected the prosecution to highlight this as part of pre-meditation but it doesn't seem they did - but equally, it could have happened and just not been reported.

Thats the frustrating thing, we may have missed some really interesting details which for whatever reason didnt get reported.

 

[Catsarse]

RSBM

11:17NATHAN STANDLEY
Relowicz would have had 'ample opportunity' to assault someone before - but didn't, defence says
Mr Saxby said: “As of February 1, 2019, Pawel Relowicz had been living in Hull for a number of years. For a large proportion of this time he had been living in or near Raglan Street, in a student area. His problem wouldn’t have suddenly appeared and he admits he has committed other acts of voyeurism not detected by police.

Libby Squire murder trial updates as jury consider verdict

Thank you @Becky53 i missed this

 

[DanCJ]

I think his third visit to the park is what helps my decision most of all.

 

[LastSeenWearing]

I can see how people think it is a big step up, but IMO not in the alleged circumstances.

Even looking at it as unplanned, which I am dubious about:

He attacks Libby, she fights and screams, he panics and puts his hand over her face to quiet her.

He knowingly applies enough force to cause her serious harm and in this case death...

Murder.

Now he has a big problem, a dead girl will be found with his dna. He needs to dispose of the evidence and quickly.

By luck (or pre planning), they are near the river. Problem solved, or so he thinks.

Off he goes, to crack on with the rest of his evening, fired up from what he has done (and what he thinks he got away with).

As I say, IMO.

The problem I have with this is about PR cracking on with his evening after murdering her. I would have thought someone who has just committed their first murder would be in a state of shock and would rush home asap and lie low for quite some time worried sick about being caught not go straight out in the street masturbating and looking for more women.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

We are going round and round in the same circles all the time. Everybody has their own theory and is not going to be convinced otherwise. Him running to and fro in the park seems too convulted for me and thus unbelievable. But of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am really interested though where are Libby's jacket and a top? Who took them off and where.

In the spidercam, I really thought it looked like he threw a garment of soft material, like a faux leather jacket, onto his back seat. That wouldnt fit though with Libby being cold, unless ofc he forced her in the car and it came off (like the watch). We didnt hear about that in court though.

I would imagine the jacket would not survive the river currents if Libby was still wearing it.

Do you have a theory about those items you would care to share @Dotta?

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

The problem I have with this is about PR cracking on with his evening after murdering her. I would have thought someone who has just committed their first murder would be in a state of shock and would rush home asap and lie low for quite some time worried sick about being caught not go straight out in the street masturbating and looking for more women.

I agree. Not ever having been known for violence, would he have been so casual after knowingly committed murder as we see him on the CCTV later that night.

I wonder why his wife wasn't called to give a character account and what he was like on that night and in the subsequent days after.

 

[C.greek]

The problem I have with this is about PR cracking on with his evening after murdering her. I would have thought someone who has just committed their first murder would be in a state of shock and would rush home asap and lie low for quite some time worried sick about being caught not go straight out in the street masturbating and looking for more women.

Hmm or an excited state?

ETA he definitely shows no empathy whatsoever for Libby or her parents. If he was innocent/felt guilt or whatever normal people would feel He could have started his statement with saying how sorry he is that Libby was found dead.

 

[tedtink]

The fact is we haven't seen all the evidence, how PR has presented himself, all the little nuances etc, probably just a tiny fraction.
Newspapers usually go for the most 'sensational' parts to report, even in the most horrific trials. Sadly that's the way it is.
If you read out loud what we've seen it wouldn't take long. Much less than those long days spent in Court over the past couple of weeks.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The problem I have with this is about PR cracking on with his evening after murdering her. I would have thought someone who has just committed their first murder would be in a state of shock and would rush home asap and lie low for quite some time worried sick about being caught not go straight out in the street masturbating and looking for more women.

Yes, this shocks me too, it is so bizarre.

Does this mean you believe the rape was consensual? Only thinking that you would imagine someone who has just committed rape to also keep a low profile by the same reasoning.

His behaviour is off the scale however you look at it, IMO.

 

[Dotta]

In the spidercam, I really thought it looked like he threw a garment of soft material, like a faux leather jacket, onto his back seat. That wouldnt fit though with Libby being cold, unless ofc he forced her in the car and it came off (like the watch). We didnt hear about that in court though.

I would imagine the jacket would not survive the river currents if Libby was still wearing it.

Do you have a theory about those items you would care to share @Dotta?

I have no idea. But if ever they were found the mystery would be solved.

 

[tigerowl]

The problem I have with this is about PR cracking on with his evening after murdering her. I would have thought someone who has just committed their first murder would be in a state of shock and would rush home asap and lie low for quite some time worried sick about being caught not go straight out in the street masturbating and looking for more women.

This is exactly what I think.

 

[tigerowl]

Yes, this shocks me too, it is so bizarre.

Does this mean you believe the rape was consensual? Only thinking that you would imagine someone who has just committed rape to also keep a low profile by the same reasoning.

His behaviour is off the scale however you look at it, IMO.

I know you are asking LastSeenWearing, but as I agree with their comment I feel compelled to reply. I don't think they or I are suggesting that the sex was consensual. I think we both feel that was rape. I can't speak for LSW, but my view is that the rape was a small step up for PR. Murder would be another thing altogether. I think we are both talking about the murder element leading to PR taking a low profile.

Edit to add -@LastSeenWearing my apologies for making assumptions about your thoughts here. I shouldn't have done that but didn't want to delete the comment as it had already been seen,

 

[LastSeenWearing]

Yes, this shocks me too, it is so bizarre.

Does this mean you believe the rape was consensual? Only thinking that you would imagine someone who has just committed rape to also keep a low profile by the same reasoning.

His behaviour is off the scale however you look at it, IMO.

A rape can't ever be consensual!! But no I do not believe the sex was consensual Libby was far too drunk to give consent. I would have thought someone who has just committed murder would not be able to drive off in the calm manner he did (even as a poster mentioned indicating) and instead of getting home and hiding and pacing around trembling thinking what have I done goes out driving round the streets and walking seen on cctv. I would not think this the usual behaviour for any murderer!