UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #20

[Newthoughts]

This is why I'm wondering if the reporting is patchy. That footage must have been shown to the jury.

I think so too. It would negligent not to. I also get the impression from the defence question that we only heard a fraction of the forensic evidence.

 

[Dotta]

Witness who described the shouts. He said sth about the light trousers and a jacket.

I checked the testimony. He said BOMBER jacket. Well, my bad.

 

[JosieJo]

But we know he entered and left the park and raped Libby within that time frame. Subtle asphyxiation during rape also seems feasible. So all that is left is throwing her body into the water.

He's a butcher, he goes to the gym so I could imagine him throwing carcasses about quite easily.

I cannot see how she gets into that river and gets washed away. Without leaving traces of fibres from her clothes. Nor why she stops screaming.

I think in order to pull your trousers back up, move a body to river and throw her in is definitely going to add some time to the event unless the attack is literally next to the water.. if this all happened at the waters edge I'm surprised the yeast factory didn't pick anything up ...in fact its surprising whatever happened wasn't picked up on cctv

 

[Miss_French]

Where was that reported? Which witness?

It was reported as tight-fitting jeans or joggers, and a bomber jacket:

Witness in Libby Squire murder trial heard screams of ‘desperation’, court hears

 

[Vera_dci]

As hull live seem to be the only reporters in the court. Do you think they are being selective with the details at this point so they can write a front page worthy article at the end of the trial. Other larger tabloids seem to be going off hull lives posts ( evident with the mistakes about asphyxiation).

 

[JosieJo]

I'm not surprised that all cctv has not been released in press ..they tend to just pick the ones they want to show ..but its unusual not to have the main points of forensics etc reported ...these are the bits the press normally love

I'm surprised no mention of his shoes
I was very surprised he didn't Google rivers or death as far as they could find
I'm surprised as already mentioned no forensics from the crime scene

 

[Mommysleuth11]

But we know he entered and left the park and raped Libby within that time frame. Subtle asphyxiation during rape also seems feasible. So all that is left is throwing her body into the water.

He's a butcher, he goes to the gym so I could imagine him throwing carcasses about quite easily.

I cannot see how she gets into that river and gets washed away. Without leaving traces of fibres from her clothes. Nor why she stops screaming.

I have never actually seen any confirmation that he is indeed "a butcher" apart from tabloid sensationalism.
We know he did work at karro foods "aka Malton bacon factory" but, positions there are many and varying. Factory operative, packer etc. Without wanting to try to stereotype, these kinds of unskilled factory worker position are often less sought after and filled by young or perhaps foreign workers as its easy cheap labour. So as much as I don't want to say he wasn't a butcher, I'm not sure this has ever been truly confirmed, more speculated due to his workplace.
Happy to stand corrected

 

[Vermont24]

I have never actually seen any confirmation that he is indeed "a butcher" apart from tabloid sensationalism.
We know he did work at karro foods "aka Malton bacon factory" but, positions there are many and varying. Factory operative, packer etc. Without wanting to try to stereotype, these kinds of unskilled factory worker position are often less sought after and filled by young or perhaps foreign workers as its easy cheap labour. So as much as I don't want to say he wasn't a butcher, I'm not sure this has ever been truly confirmed, more speculated due to his workplace.
Happy to stand corrected

I've always assumed he just worked on some kind of production line.

 

[Miss_French]

The RNLI evidence was that Libby when recovered was wearing a bra type top, black skirt and trainers. Again I know we don't necessarily have all the information due to how and what exactly is reported. I was however surprised that if indeed she was found without her top and Jacket (it seems much more likely to me that shoes would be "washed away" than a jacket or top for example), that there has been no mention of if any missing clothes were ever recovered.

Sorry to jump backwards and if this has already been covered.

Thanks for that. But it's got me wondering when those items went missing. If it's at the point of being raped that Libby is fighting back why would PR try to undress her top half? And if it was on his return, to do something gratuitous, shall we say, it's adding to an already tight timescale. If it was any earlier, then would cctv see be of a sufficient resolution to make out that Libby wasn't all in black.

 

[Newthoughts]

I have never actually seen any confirmation that he is indeed "a butcher" apart from tabloid sensationalism.
We know he did work at karro foods "aka Malton bacon factory" but, positions there are many and varying. Factory operative, packer etc. Without wanting to try to stereotype, these kinds of unskilled factory worker position are often less sought after and filled by young or perhaps foreign workers as its easy cheap labour. So as much as I don't want to say he wasn't a butcher, I'm not sure this has ever been truly confirmed, more speculated due to his workplace.
Happy to stand corrected

I've always assumed he just worked on some kind of production line.

The stuff here seems to have been garnered from interviews with his mum and his FB page. Both being a butcher and going to the gym are mentioned.

Also @wilkela managed to access his wife's FB page before it was made private and said she was with another butcher now

https://www-hulldailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/pawel-relowicz-hull-family-life-3219210.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQCrABIA==#aoh=16114273701348&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/pawel-relowicz-hull-family-life-3219210

 

[Dotta]

I have never actually seen any confirmation that he is indeed "a butcher" apart from tabloid sensationalism.
We know he did work at karro foods "aka Malton bacon factory" but, positions there are many and varying. Factory operative, packer etc. Without wanting to try to stereotype, these kinds of unskilled factory worker position are often less sought after and filled by young or perhaps foreign workers as its easy cheap labour. So as much as I don't want to say he wasn't a butcher, I'm not sure this has ever been truly confirmed, more speculated due to his workplace.
Happy to stand corrected

He is a cook by profession, finished gastronomical school in Poland.

 

[Newthoughts]

As cherwell has pointed out. Are we missing key information in the live trial reporting.

This is still on the hull website unchanged:


At 9.11pm, the Vauxhall Astra is then caught on CCTV heading away from the Cottingham Road and Clough Road junction, northbound along Beverley Road.It then slows and indicated into Beresford Avenue before making its way to Oak Road Playing Fields.

The visit was around three hours before the last known sighting of Libby and prosecutors say it was the first of several visits to the vast expanse that borders the River Hull - the waterway.

CCTV released of Pawel Relowicz on night of Libby Squire's 'murder'

That is interesting. I think we are certainly only getting a snippet of what's being said.

 

[tigerowl]

I still have problems with the timing even taking into account the later visits. Whilst I haven't been there since last summer, I have dog walked with my pal in that exact area quite often. She lives on Etherington. It is further down to the river than it appears on the satellite map, there is a definite incline up to the bank and there are quite a lot of shrubs/trees. It's not simple ground to cover. Especially with an unwilling participant.

The only way I can see this working is if Libby ran from him as soon as she got out the car and made it almost to the river herself - but that doesn't fit with the reports of the screaming as she would have probably been too far away for it to be heard in that way. I know it is contrary to what many people think, but I think she might have been in such a state after the rape that she ended up in the river somehow by herself.

Surely there would have been some forensic evidence on the riverbank, on his clothes (I know there were grass stains on his jeans but nothing seems to have been stated about that) and in his car. To the best of my memory, they were searching ORPF within 24/36 hours of her disappearance. Surely there would have been footprints, or dirt on his trainers that matched the bank or tracks in the brush etc

 

[Offaly]

I would have no hesitation in finding him guilty of murder. There may be no smoking gun, but there's no doubt that his actions caused her death. There's also no doubt that he is a very dangerous individual who needs to be kept off the streets to protect women. To that end, I say do whatever it takes to get him locked up for as long as possible, because sentencing in the UK is risibly lenient.
If we had the death penalty, I would agonise over the case, but since we don't I'm not bothered if he goes down for murder when it might have been more like manslaughter. That may be against the spirit of our justice system, but frankly in his case I don't care.

Every time I see the CCTV, especially the one of her walking alone on Beverley road I just wish I could reach into the screen and usher her to safety and lead her home. I live near Hull and every time I go along that area now, my heart sinks and I well up. I'm so sorry Libby that we (the people of Hull) didn't look after you that night, that we didn't take care of you until you were safe. May you rest in peace lovely girl

 

[Miss_French]

Surely there would have been some forensic evidence on the riverbank, on his clothes (I know there were grass stains on his jeans but nothing seems to have been stated about that) and in his car. To the best of my memory, they were searching ORPF within 24/36 hours of her disappearance. Surely there would have been footprints, or dirt on his trainers that matched the bank or tracks in the brush etc

Given the weather, I don't know how much someone would leave in the way of footprints, but dirt in shoes matching the park can be explained by taking his son there.

 

[Dotta]

Did the police search the river in those Oak Fields the next day of Libby's disappearance? Is it possible that her body had already floated away so far that it was missed during the search?

 

[mrazda71]

I still have problems with the timing even taking into account the later visits. Whilst I haven't been there since last summer, I have dog walked with my pal in that exact area quite often. She lives on Etherington. It is further down to the river than it appears on the satellite map, there is a definite incline up to the bank and there are quite a lot of shrubs/trees. It's not simple ground to cover. Especially with an unwilling participant.

The only way I can see this working is if Libby ran from him as soon as she got out the car and made it almost to the river herself - but that doesn't fit with the reports of the screaming as she would have probably been too far away for it to be heard in that way. I know it is contrary to what many people think, but I think she might have been in such a state after the rape that she ended up in the river somehow by herself.

Surely there would have been some forensic evidence on the riverbank, on his clothes (I know there were grass stains on his jeans but nothing seems to have been stated about that) and in his car. To the best of my memory, they were searching ORPF within 24/36 hours of her disappearance. Surely there would have been footprints, or dirt on his trainers that matched the bank or tracks in the brush etc

This is what makes it a viscous cycle of buts for me ... if there was obvious/substantial signs of drowning then I'd accept that that might be the case (him leaving her ad her stumbling into the river) but, from experience of many cases, when a pathologist gives their testimony it often won't be the black or white that we'd all like, instead the answer is grey - but they do usually er towards dark grey or light grey and in this case I just wasn't convinced that the pathologist thinks that drowning is a real possibility.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Did the police search the river in those Oak Fields the next day of Libby's disappearance? Is it possible that her body had already floated away so far that it was missed during the search?

Yes, 11.00am on Feb 2nd a SAR team went to the area. Attached is a timeline of the searches etc
Everything we know about huge search for missing Libby Squire

 

[Dotta]

Yes, 11.00am on Feb 2nd a SAR team went to the area. Attached is a timeline of the searches etc
Everything we know about huge search for missing Libby Squire

Thank you.

 

[Cherwell]

I wonder if Defence will bring in PR's mental health. I have read that he was suffering from depression those days. So here is a depressed man with low self esteem caused by his deviancy. He never before sought physical contacts with women he accosted.

Dotta, can you remember where you read that he was suffering from depression? I think this cropped up before, but there was no confirmation of it.