UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #20

[Dotta]

Dotta, can you remember where you read that he was suffering from depression? I think this cropped up before, but there was no confirmation of it.

It was an info about his doctor giving him leave from work due to depression - till the 1st of Febr I read it here on Websleuths

 

[Dotta]

Dotta, can you remember where you read that he was suffering from depression? I think this cropped up before, but there was no confirmation of it.

It was an info about his doctor giving him leave from work due to depression - till the 1st of Febr I read it here on Websleuths

 

[Cherwell]

It was an info about his doctor giving him leave from work due to depression - till the 1st of Febr I read it here on Websleuths

Ah yes, I don't think a credible source was found for that.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Ah yes, I don't think a credible source was found for that.

Correct me if I’m wrong- but they mentioned him being signed off work at the beginning of the court case and it was only a few days before Jan 31st and for a few days was mentioned in the press at the beginning when he was arrested - which doesn’t sound like someone being signed off for depression as that’s usually more than a day or so. I also think if it was depression, it would have made many an appearance in news articles over time.

 

[JosieJo]

I think it was mentioned in court about being signed off work

 

[Cherwell]

Correct me if I’m wrong- but they mentioned him being signed off work at the beginning of the court case and it was only a few days before Jan 31st and for a few days was mentioned in the press at the beginning when he was arrested - which doesn’t sound like someone being signed off for depression as that’s usually more than a day or so. I also think if it was depression, it would have made many an appearance in news articles over time.

Yes, no question that he was signed off work and it was definitely discussed on here. I don't know where the rumour came from that he had depression, but as far as I recall that was never substantiated. It's the depression bit that I'm querying.

 

[elliefant]

I agree no cause was given in court

Mr Wright says he worked as a butcher at Karro Foods in Malton but had been signed off sick by his doctor on January 28, 2019. He was excused from working until February 1.

Pawel Relowicz court updates as butcher stands trial for Libby murder

Sorry, I don’t know about discussion prior to that.

Mention there of being a butcher too.

 

[mrazda71]

Regarding the 'depression' - someone here said 'signed off with depression' - others responded with 'where did you get that info' and the OP replied saying she'd assumed it was 'depression' and apologised for leading us all down a rabbit hole.

To be clear - he WAS signed off work.
We do NOT know why.

 

[Dotta]

Regarding the 'depression' - someone here said 'signed off with depression' - others responded with 'where did you get that info' and the OP replied saying she'd assumed it was 'depression' and apologised for leading us all down a rabbit hole.

To be clear - he WAS signed off work.
We do NOT know why.

Wow Rabbit hole indeed My head is spinning

 

[Mommysleuth11]

I agree no cause was given in court

Mr Wright says he worked as a butcher at Karro Foods in Malton but had been signed off sick by his doctor on January 28, 2019. He was excused from working until February 1.

Pawel Relowicz court updates as butcher stands trial for Libby murder

Sorry, I don’t know about discussion prior to that.

Mention there of being a butcher too.

This does at least quantify that he WAS indeed a butcher. Thanks.

 

[Dotta]

This does at least quantify that he WAS indeed a butcher. Thanks.

Well Thank God for small mercies hi hi

 

[porkypies]

Exactly!!! Besides the man running out of the park was wearing a kind of leather jacket according to a witness. Was PR wearing such a jacket?

In the Tesco cctv and the later tv of PR walking about later on that evening, he seems to me to be wearing a camouflage jacket, Libby was wearing a black faux leather 'bomber?' type jacket that evening but it was missing when she was found. PR has stated that he wore the same clothes on his 2.30am trip out as he was wearing at the time that Libby was with him.

 

[Ruthbullock]

In the Tesco cctv and the later tv of PR walking about later on that evening, he seems to me to be wearing a camouflage jacket, Libby was wearing a black faux leather 'bomber?' type jacket that evening but it was missing when she was found. PR has stated that he wore the same clothes on his 2.30am trip out as he was wearing at the time that Libby was with him.

In the chicken shop footage he is wearing his check multi coloured coat, which I have seen him in before- but I think it must have just been a press photo, I can’t find it- but the coat is oversized and several different colours. I don’t think he would have fitted in LS leather jacket- she was quite petite and he is very broad shouldered. It does make me question the coats aspect though- good spot!
ETA Just slowed down the Tesco footage and I think that is a different coat- in fact it looks more like a Nordic style knitted sweater with a pattern around the top.

 

[TreiseOg]

Did the police search the river in those Oak Fields the next day of Libby's disappearance? Is it possible that her body had already floated away so far that it was missed during the search?

Yes, between the time that Libby was last seen and the date/time that water searches started, there would have been a day and a half of tidal movement and currents. Sometimes even just an hour is enough for someone to have travelled quite a distance, depending upon tidal conditions and other factors.

I think I remember seeing someone post way back in this thread about the difficulty of locating a missing person in a river setting - currents can be extremely strong. Plus there's the added complication that rivers beside or in close proximity to towns/cities often have a a lot of debris under the surface to snag/catch on for periods of time.

 

[Kaykedi]

Agree with this. Also that there doesn’t appear (I appreciate that we have only heard limited info)to have been rape or violent fantasies either. It is undisputed that he is a sexual deviant, and there there is a technical rape scenario in this case, but to go from voyeurism and exhibitionism, however terrifying, to violent contact and murder without evidence of a preoccupation of those ‘themes’ challenges me. Of course it could just have been an opportunity that he was prepared to take. I am keeping my open mind until the end of the trial.

I'm surprised that he had no dodgy Internet searches. Unless he has another phone that no one knows about

 

[Kaykedi]

His previous convictions have been allowed. The judge did not accept them as opportunistic in 2019 which is why he got 8 1/2 years.

His behaviour before and after the event has been detailed. Very little can be explained in terms of random opportunity.

There is no reason to go to a dark park - it's dark. No reason to prowl around student areas in the dark. They are just houses. No reason to have books of student housing - he isn't a student and should he be planning to become one he's already lives close

An opportunistic crime happens when you happen upon an opportunity. You see an old lady on your way to Tesco in the dark. It's quiet you hit her over the head killing her just to grab her purse. Before you have time to think.

Many 'opportunistic' rapes occur within feet of where the person is grabbed.

His first opportunity to sieze the moment and rape was the Endsleigh Centre. There I would have to agree - it would be difficult to say it wasn't an opportunistic rape. There are sadly lots of rapes like that. Quiet dark. He's quick.

Or once he'd got her into his car. Another opportunity. No forethought - nearest spot and then panic about the consequences afterwards


He didn't. He stalked Libby up the road into a site of opportunity and didn't take it. He controlled that impulse.

Then he put her into his car. Another random site of opportunity he didn't take

Then he deliberately drove Libby to a isolated spot with a tidal river that he'd been to before. No random driving looking for the nearest spot. Already deemed suitable

Then witness evidence of screaming and him running suggests he took her further into that park past several more opportunistic spots.

Only then does the witness statements suggest he raped her.

Plenty of time to stop and think I won't rape her. Opportunity was there in the Endsleigh Centre or shortly after getting her into his car. But he had the foresight to take her elsewhere - somewhere with a river.

Planning does not have to take months. He had ample time to change his mind.

According to witnesses he entered the park with her. Again chances to change his mind. He was not seen leaving whilst she was screaming. Three bursts of screaming over a period of time.

Each one an opportunity to stop and leave her alone whilst still screaming. Why didn't he?

A Witness sees him leaving AFTER those screams have stopped. Why have they stopped? Why didn't he leave before they stopped? What was he doing between them stopping and being seen leaving?

Even if he had left her unconscious - that would be as a result of an act of violence that he could have stopped. That nobody was forcing him to do.
If that would still result in her probable death I'm sure that counts as murder.

Those are the facts that I would consider.

Brilliant post Newthoughts

 

[Dotta]

Yes, between the time that Libby was last seen and the date/time that water searches started, there would have been a day and a half of tidal movement and currents. Sometimes even just an hour is enough for someone to have travelled quite a distance, depending upon tidal conditions and other factors.

I think I remember seeing someone post way back in this thread about the difficulty of locating a missing person in a river setting - currents can be extremely strong. Plus there's the added complication that rivers beside or in close proximity to towns/cities often have a a lot of debris under the surface to snag/catch on for periods of time.

Thank you I never realized that But you live and learn

 

[TreiseOg]

Thank you I never realized that But you live and learn

You're very welcome - and we all do!

 

[C.greek]

I remember reading when Libby was found that the family had their own pathologist examine her body. If this is accurate, and please correct me if not, why wasn't the family's pathologist report presented in court? I find the presentation from the prosecution lacking in detail, unless more evidence would be presented later, though as far as I understand the prosecution has finished presenting their case and thus their incriminating evidence? Has the jury been shown cctv of Libby and PR getting out of the car? If so, was she dragged out, did she run? Is there such cctv evidence? Or is it only the car lights they can make out? Did I miss this evidence being presented?

 

[martenwearer]

If I recall correctly, I don't think the top she was wearing was posted. The only things replicated were 'leather jacket, a black denim skirt, and black sneaker-style shoes.' Therefore, the 'black sports bra' that she was found wearing may have been the only top she was wearing under her jacket, rather than as underwear. Almost like a black crop top vest? Not sure if any knows of anything different or can work out what she was wearing from cctv?

The clothes missing Libby was wearing the night she disappeared