Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #2

[GoldenFlower]

I wonder why they are searching at night.

Is there a time limit for using forensics as evidence, and if so how long before it can no longer be used?

I was thinking more along the lines of fingerprints/dna with the item or items they are looking for possibly being out in the open or could be deemed inadmissible due to the length of time because others could have handled it

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Is there a time limit for using forensics as evidence, and if so how long before it can no longer be used?

I was thinking more along the lines of fingerprints/dna with the item or items they are looking for possibly being out in the open or could be deemed inadmissible due to the length of time because others could have handled it

The sooner that something which could be of evidential value is secured against external interference...e.g. police tape cordon and officers protecting cordon and preserved, e.g. dustbin lid placed over footprint in the open, the better.

An ongoing time delay in securing the evidence could undermine the integrity of it within the evidential chain, a possible example being that it could be argued that there was significantly more opportunity for someone else to have discarded an item in a particular place where a suspect was arrested.

Preservation is reasonably self explanatory. DNA will decay at different rates based on exposure to certain conditions. Other items can be lost or damaged by human or animal interference or exposure to the elements.

So no time limits as such, but time can impact on the integrity and quality of the evidence.

 

[CharlestonGal]

The sooner that something which could be of evidential value is secured against external interferece...e.g. police tape cordon and officers protecting cordon, and preserved, e.g. dustbin lid placed over footprint in the open, the better.

An ongoing time delay in the securing the evidence could undermine the integrity of it within the evidential chain, a possible example being that it could be argued that there was significantly more opportunity for someone else to have discarded an item in a particular place.

Preservation is reasonably self explanatory. DNA will decay at different rates based on exposure to certain conditions. Other items can be lost or damaged by human or animal interference or exposure to the elements.

So no time limits as such, but time impacts on the integrity and quality of the evidence.

Contaminated evidence is a real concern in this case as there were hundreds of people walking/searching the area. Who knows what evidence was compromised in those two weeks? I mean, I know people meant well and they were searching for her, but evidence could have been destroyed in that search.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Contaminated evidence is a real concern in this case as there were hundreds of people walking/searching the area. Who knows what evidence was compromised in those two weeks? I mean, I know people meant well and they were searching for her, but evidence could have been destroyed in that search.

Nature of the beast unfortunately. LB was being treated as a high risk misper and the search with a view to preserving life is the primary consideration, without credible information to suggest foul play.

Anything of note, found, would have resulted in LE reviewing their approach to searching the area around it....i.e. pull out the community, send in the professionals.

I am sure that a record was kept of who was searching where. In the event of an item of interest proving to be evidential then those people would have be asked for their fingerprints or DNA for elimination purposes.

Although there is always the possibility that an offender will get right in the mix and create a false alibi for evidence found with their fingerprints/DNA on.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Nature of the beast unfortunately. LB was being treated as a high risk misper and the search with a view to preserving life is the primary consideration, without credible information to suggest foul play.

Anything of note, found, would have resulted in LE reviewing their approach to searching the area around it....i.e. pull out the community, send in the professionals.

I am sure that a record was kept of who was searching where. In the event of an item of interest proving to be evidential then those people would have be asked for their fingerprints or DNA for elimination purposes.

Although there is always the possibility that an offender will get right in the mix and create a false alibi for evidence found with their fingerprints/DNA on.

IIRC, the only place they called off the public was the quarry and the memorial walk. Other than that, the public was everywhere. LE had to tell the public to stop bringing them items they found and to instead call an officer to the scene. What a mess.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

IIRC, the only place they called off the public was the quarry and the memorial walk. Other than that, the public was everywhere. LE had to tell the public to stop bringing them items they found and to instead call an officer to the scene. What a mess.

Yes, it does sound like it wasn't well managed. Well meaning folk, without proper training can cause more harm than good and put themselves at risk in the process.

I suspect that community involvement will be de-briefed by LE in due course and hopefully lessons will be learned.

 

[GoldenFlower]

IIRC, the only place they called off the public was the quarry and the memorial walk. Other than that, the public was everywhere. LE had to tell the public to stop bringing them items they found and to instead call an officer to the scene. What a mess.

LE stopped planned searches by the public the day before her body was found, no reason was given but I suspect at that point they suspected foul play. MOO

 

[GoldenFlower]

Rock FM News on Twitter items still missing

I noted that in this link it states the judge was told a NUMBER of her items were still missing.

As far as I am aware the only item LE have mentioned is her mobile phone.

 

[Smccat]

I noted that in this link it states the judge was told a NUMBER of her items were still missing.

As far as I am aware the only item LE have mentioned is her mobile phone.

They might be referring to clothing or door keys there.

 

[Spender]

This new activity may be a result of the lad beginning to realise the severity and the possible outcome of his case and he has decided to give LE more info of his actions regarding LB ......MOO

 

[Smccat]

There was a member on the Libby Squire thread who fully understood phone /gps. IIRC phones send a goodbye ping when either powered off due to flat battery or are physically switched off and it’s not possible to tell which it was.

Lindsay may have rush charged the phone to get a bit of battery to see her to where ever she was headed to and thought she’d charge it more there. Perhaps a friends house? The friend wouldn’t necessarily have known she was coming. Maybe Lindsay was just going to see if he/she happened to be in and call for a quick chat /brew before getting on with dinner. The reason I mention this is I always take my phone whether it’s dead or very little battery or not. On low power mode with very little battery my own phone can last hours. Just my thoughts. MOO

ETA - on low power mode with no use my phone can last hours. Obviously not if I’m using it every 2 mins

 

[GoldenFlower]

IMO I doubt they will find the phone, it’s probably had the SIM card removed and sold on

 

[Emmalt]

Can i ask who is LE? Can someone point me in the right direction of the code list please

 

[FrostOwl]

Can i ask who is LE? Can someone point me in the right direction of the code list please

LE = Law Enforcement
Is it this list? Websleuths Lingo

 

[GoldenFlower]

There was a member on the Libby Squire thread who fully understood phone /gps. IIRC phones send a goodbye ping when either powered off due to flat battery or are physically switched off and it’s not possible to tell which it was.

Lindsay may have rush charged the phone to get a bit of battery to see her to where ever she was headed to and thought she’d charge it more there. Perhaps a friends house? The friend wouldn’t necessarily have known she was coming. Maybe Lindsay was just going to see if he/she happened to be in and call for a quick chat /brew before getting on with dinner. The reason I mention this is I always take my phone whether it’s dead or very little battery or not. On low power mode with very little battery my own phone can last hours. Just my thoughts. MOO

ETA - on low power mode with no use my phone can last hours. Obviously not if I’m using it every 2 mins

Interesting..but if the phone was still on with low battery power it would surely have pinged the goodby ping when it again ran out.

If that is the case then she must have powered it off before leaving.

Or he’s disabled the phone in a way it couldn’t send a goodbye ping....I wonder if that could be done

 

[Smccat]

Welcome to websleuths.

I had wondered about stills vs actual footage. Do some cctv cameras capture pictures rather than everything ? I’m unsure.

 

[GoldenFlower]

Welcome to websleuths.

I had wondered about stills vs actual footage. Do some cctv cameras capture pictures rather than everything ? I’m unsure.

I’m not sure, maybe some older ones only capture stills.

There were 2 cctv posted, the first one at the house just before the bungalows, which was just a still image, and another one a day or two later from the bottom bungalow, stills were taken from it but a motion vid was put up from that one.

 

[Angleterre]

The sooner that something which could be of evidential value is secured against external interference...e.g. police tape cordon and officers protecting cordon and preserved, e.g. dustbin lid placed over footprint in the open, the better.

An ongoing time delay in securing the evidence could undermine the integrity of it within the evidential chain, a possible example being that it could be argued that there was significantly more opportunity for someone else to have discarded an item in a particular place where a suspect was arrested.

Preservation is reasonably self explanatory. DNA will decay at different rates based on exposure to certain conditions. Other items can be lost or damaged by human or animal interference or exposure to the elements.

So no time limits as such, but time can impact on the integrity and quality of the evidence.

Excellent reply Alberthall
Sorry Thant’s an in joke
You’re right and I’m particular it could be argued that the suspect ( either the one in custody or others ) had found it and touched it and discarded it so that is the reason for their prints or dns to be on it

 

[Angleterre]

There was a member on the Libby Squire thread who fully understood phone /gps. IIRC phones send a goodbye ping when either powered off due to flat battery or are physically switched off and it’s not possible to tell which it was.

Lindsay may have rush charged the phone to get a bit of battery to see her to where ever she was headed to and thought she’d charge it more there. Perhaps a friends house? The friend wouldn’t necessarily have known she was coming. Maybe Lindsay was just going to see if he/she happened to be in and call for a quick chat /brew before getting on with dinner. The reason I mention this is I always take my phone whether it’s dead or very little battery or not. On low power mode with very little battery my own phone can last hours. Just my thoughts. MOO

ETA - on low power mode with no use my phone can last hours. Obviously not if I’m using it every 2 mins

They can tell if it’s powered down now because of battery as opposed to being switched off
It’s ever evolving technology

 

[Angleterre]

No, it needs to be on and connected to the network mast.

If you google this there is evolving technology now that says otherwise
Apparently it’s used in USA but it’s not yet commonplace
Who knows what’s next in the world of evolving technology
There are things we are told about mobile phones and data that aren’t always true ie. the retrieval of messages etc and social media discussions are able to be retrieved and there is a suggestion that even snapchat can be but don’t shoot the messenger because I only have this from word of mouth contacts in LE