Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #2

[Angleterre]

Assuming that the suspect or his Appropriate Adult requested a solicitor to represent the suspect, whilst in police custody, then as much evidence as the police were happy to disclose would have been revealed to the solicitor. Enough needs to be disclosed for the solicitor to advise their client accordingly and certain key evidence would have been put to the suspect during the interviews, which the solicitor would have been present at. Not all the evidence would necessarily be revealed at the custody stage.

There will be an initial Court file prepared by the police and CPS with information supporting the decision to charge. The defence will have a copy.

In due course the CPS will need to disclose to the defence all the evidence they have, together with any evidence they have which undermines the Crowns case or supports the defence. The defence will then respond with the basis of their defence, assuming there is a 'not guilty' plea. There is a lot of toing and froing of paperwork between Police and the CPS and the CPS and the Defence.

The extensions to detention would have been requested on the basis that there was not enough evidence to meet the CPS threshold for a charge. Once the threshold is reached, then any interview must be halted and the suspect charged pending a first Court appearance.

I am sure Angleterre will add to this and correct any errors.

Perfect Whitehall 100% pass

 

[Angleterre]

What happens if he pleads guilty. Would he still have to attend Crown Court on the 25th Feb for sentencing or would that be brought forwards.

Would his confession statement be read out in court at that time?

If he pleaded guilty there is still a form of court process to go through which will entail a hearing for him to formally enter his plea followed by any mitigation and sentencing reports and then the actual sentencing hearing at crown court. It would all happen pretty quickly or as soon as the court system will allow AND as soon as the police prosecution file is completed with enough evidence contained within to support the charge of murder and to fulfill the requirements of CPS charging criteria This is in the event that further down the line for whatever reason, no appeals are made that the suspect didn’t understand what he was pleading guilty to etc especially with him being a juvenile

 

[Angleterre]

Surely it more than just coming or going,, i wouldn't class that as significant cctv evidence,, its just mind boggling when you live where something like this has happened and took part in the searches and own searches, also not knowing if your safe,, so many questions,, have they got the right person,, one thing I can say it has shaken up the community and made people take note of there surroundings

The police investigation team will have sufficient evidence to support a charge of murder as per the CPS charging criteria and guidelines which are of a pretty high standard to pass the threshold as they will not prosecute cases generally if there is not a realistic prospect of conviction which is usually around the 90% mark ( although this isn’t an official published number). So you can be sure that you, we , us in the public domain are only aware of a small amount of evidence and that behind the scenes there will be so much more evidence that is either in their possession currently or is in the process of being developed.

 

[Angleterre]

Back on topic. At the next hearing, the suspect will make a plea, correct? Is any evidence given or is it just a simple declaration of guilty or not guilty?

It’s just a formality to enter a plea of either guilty or not guilty. A summary of the pertinent facts will be read out in court and then he will be asked if he is pleading guilty or not guilty.

 

[GoldenFlower]

If he pleaded guilty there is still a form of court process to go through which will entail a hearing for him to formally enter his plea followed by any mitigation and sentencing reports and then the actual sentencing hearing at crown court. It would all happen pretty quickly or as soon as the court system will allow AND as soon as the police prosecution file is completed with enough evidence contained within to support the charge of murder and to fulfill the requirements of CPS charging criteria This is in the event that further down the line for whatever reason, no appeals are made that the suspect didn’t understand what he was pleading guilty to etc especially with him being a juvenile

Thank you so much Angleterre, your input in all of this has been not only amazing but valuable.

So on his next appearance at Crown Court on 13th December should he plead guilty we may never know what happened or why.

It would be good for her family so they wouldn’t have to go through the trauma of a trial.

 

[Jealoushe]

It’s just a formality to enter a plea of either guilty or not guilty. A summary of the pertinent facts will be read out in court and then he will be asked if he is pleading guilty or not guilty.

Unfortunately, often times when they please out, they lessen the description of the crime so the defendant only has to say like 1/10th of what actually happened. Infuriates me.

 

[Rosegold68]

I’ve read that before almost

During the period of detention of the suspect and whilst the police investigation team Are building up the evidence to support the view that the youth named in court records is the correct suspect , there will have been a number of interviews with the suspect. Prior to those interviews, the Police are required by law, to disclose any facts that are material to the case to enable the suspect to give their own account to refute or otherwise the evidence gleaned . As more evidence is gained whilst the suspect is in initial custody at the police station, this must be disclosed to his solicitor as per PACE and CPS disclosure rules .
When this disclosure mandate was introduced in the mid 1990’s us detectives were up in arms because we felt that by giving disclosure of all the available evidence in advance of any interviews with the suspect, you were in fact giving them a chance to start building their story to answer what we, the Police , knew.
However, over time and the introduction of the new police caution which a part of reads “you do not have to say anything...”
“BUT it may harm your defence If you do not mention when questioned, something which you may later rely on in court “ and then once the suspect is charged ( indicted for our friends across the pond ) , in reply to any charges laid, the caution changes to ..
“You do not have to say anything BUT it will harm your defence if you fail to mention NOW anything which you later choose to rely on in court “.
So basically that means if you have said no comment during the interviews or you give an account based on the disclosure of evidence given to your solicitor by the police during your interviews and you later change that account once you have had time to go away with your solicitor and construct a more reasonable account and explanation to fit the initially disclosed evidence, then at crown court, a jury can make an inference as to why you did that and that inference could be that you are making it up only when presented with the disclosure and just to answer the evidence and therefore you are guilty So the inference made is allowed to be and can be one of guilt .
Hope that explains it without too much police jargon and difficulties.

Also , as the case progresses and leads up to the crown court trial , any new evidence found MUST be disclosed in advance of the trial by the prosecution to the defence .
It’s also incumbent now that the defence serve a notice to the prosecution as to what their defence is going to be or what facts are going to be relied upon. However, this is hit and miss and even when complied with, often the details contained within are so sparse that they really don’t tell the prosecution anything.

• All is geared towards and for the defendants / suspects/ perpetrators in this country UK as opposed to being geared towards the victims or being of equal split . Can be so very frustrating...

I’ve read that before almost word for word?

 

[GoldenFlower]

Unfortunately, often times when they please out, they lessen the description of the crime so the defendant only has to say like 1/10th of what actually happened. Infuriates me.

I totally agree..

It almost feels like they have gotten away with something.

I just pray if he pleads guilty he isn’t given a lesser sentence...if he deliberately set out to harm a female he should spend the rest of his life behind bars.

 

[Peak12345]

Been lurking on this thread for a while and have just read the posts regarding Lindsays mobile phone. I am a hazmat specialist (crime scene cleaning, suicide cleans, body decomps etc) and for the last few years I’ve been whizzing around the country to various police forces digital forensic labs (well open plan offices actually) to clean phones, pcs and anything that basically that records data. Historically officers would clean the phones themselves, but they are no longer allowed to in many forces.

After spending so much time with officers and civilian technicians in the digital forensics labs, I have come to learn that a phone can be at the bottom of the River Thames for a year and they can retrieve all the data. The sim card can be destroyed and they can rebuild it, on many phones that have been wiped and minus a sim card they can retrieve the data. I have even known them to salvage data from chemically damaged mobile phone, aswell.

If Lindsays phone is in fact found intact, or destroyed minus or plus a sim card, they will be able to retrieve her data etc. I have on many occasions when been presented with a phone that I haven’t had the tools for on me, they have let me completely destroy the phone to clean it.

It is quite unbelievable what the labs are equipped to do and the knowledge the civilian technicians have. There’s lots more info I’ve picked up from them but do not think its appropriate to state it publicly.

 

[Jealoushe]

just out of curiosity, what would be the purpose of destroying a phone to clean it? Why clean it if it will just be destroyed?

Been lurking on this thread for a while and have just read the posts regarding Lindsays mobile phone. I am a hazmat specialist (crime scene cleaning, suicide cleans, body decomps etc) and for the last few years I’ve been whizzing around the country to various police forces digital forensic labs (well open plan offices actually) to clean phones, pcs and anything that basically that records data. Historically officers would clean the phones themselves, but they are no longer allowed to in many forces.

After spending so much time with officers and civilian technicians in the digital forensics labs, I have come to learn that a phone can be at the bottom of the River Thames for a year and they can retrieve all the data. The sim card can be destroyed and they can rebuild it, on many phones that have been wiped and minus a sim card they can retrieve the data. I have even known them to salvage data from chemically damaged mobile phone, aswell.

If Lindsays phone is in fact found intact, or destroyed minus or plus a sim card, they will be able to retrieve her data etc. I have on many occasions when been presented with a phone that I haven’t had the tools for on me, they have let me completely destroy the phone to clean it.

It is quite unbelievable what the labs are equipped to do and the knowledge the civilian technicians have. There’s lots more info I’ve picked up from them but do not think its appropriate to state it publicly.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

< >

I am a hazmat specialist (crime scene cleaning, suicide cleans, body decomps etc) .

Welcome!! You're the first Hazmat specialist I've come across on here, what an interesting job, though you must have seen some nasty stuff in your time. Are you open to answering general questions about your line of work? Because I'm sure there will be a few questions about decomposition etc.

 

[Peak12345]

Yes, probably wasn’t clear on that point.

An example would be someone has been stabbed or shot, their phone is in their pocket, it stays in their pocket until they are in A&E. Their phone is put in a property bag and given to the police. It is quite unbelievable and 9/10 the phone appears to just need a antimicrobial wipe. However, the phone will be sodden with blood inside (the inner workings of phones, love to suck up blood).

If I’ve not got the tools for a certain model on me, as it a new model or I’m not meant to be at work (shopping, out having a meal or in the cinema when I get the shout) and it is a body fluid incident, it has to be taken apart and everything cleaned independently. The officers instruct me on the bits that they need to retrieve the data. If I don’t have the correct key/tools, I smash the phone and pry the layers apart, using anything to hand. Some phones when you remove covers etc and try and get to the workings are heat and glued sealed. When time is of importance, say someone is in custody and clock is ticking, it is case if by any means possible. It is a similar situation for unidentified dead bodies where decomp or a messy death (haemorrhage) has occurred and they want to identify the person.

Also they get me do the same for bum phones (concealed prison phones), they are normally brought into digital forensics by a prison police officer who observes whilst I clean it, then the digital guys do their bit. Prison phones are always wrapped in plastic, but still have to be cleaned the same as a blood incident, most of the time there are drugs concealed in them. Even the tiny finger and key fob phones.

Hope this explains things more clearly

 

[Peak12345]

Yes sure no problem, will try and answer anything I know the answer to

 

[Angleterre]

I’ve read that before almost

I’ve read that before almost word for word?

I’m sorry but I don’t know what to say to your comment. Are you saying that I have done a duplicate post ? If so, I wasn’t aware that I had but I’m sure if that’s the case then the mods will remove it. Or are you saying that I’ve plagiarised someone else’s post ? I can assure you that it’s my own words that I have merely written, or rather typed up, earlier today in response to another post .
I apologise if it offends you in any way.

 

[Angleterre]

I’m humbled by your comments
Thank you most sincerely

You are correct in your observations that he will plead guilty ( if that is actually what he is doing ) and then it saves the family sitting through a full trial however, there will still be a summary of the case and the evidence involved albeit maybe not in as much depth as what it would be for a full trial.

Thank you so much Angleterre, your input in all of this has been not only amazing but valuable.

So on his next appearance at Crown Court on 13th December should he plead guilty we may never know what happened or why.

It would be good for her family so they wouldn’t have to go through the trauma of a trial.

Thank

 

[Spender]

Question to any of the local sleuths......is there any LE activity happening or has it been wound up ?

 

[GoldenFlower]

Question to any of the local sleuths......is there any LE activity happening or has it been wound up ?

There doesn’t appear to be as much activity, but there was still a police van parked up the path running between the pub and the memorial place earlier...there’s been one there all week.

But there has definitely been a reduction in their presence

 

[Skigh]

There doesn’t appear to be as much activity, but there was still a police van parked up the path running between the pub and the memorial place earlier...there’s been one there all week.

But there has definitely been a reduction in their presence

I wonder if that means they have found what they have been looking for.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Yes, probably wasn’t clear on that point.

An example would be someone has been stabbed or shot, their phone is in their pocket, it stays in their pocket until they are in A&E. Their phone is put in a property bag and given to the police. It is quite unbelievable and 9/10 the phone appears to just need a antimicrobial wipe. However, the phone will be sodden with blood inside (the inner workings of phones, love to suck up blood).

If I’ve not got the tools for a certain model on me, as it a new model or I’m not meant to be at work (shopping, out having a meal or in the cinema when I get the shout) and it is a body fluid incident, it has to be taken apart and everything cleaned independently. The officers instruct me on the bits that they need to retrieve the data. If I don’t have the correct key/tools, I smash the phone and pry the layers apart, using anything to hand. Some phones when you remove covers etc and try and get to the workings are heat and glued sealed. When time is of importance, say someone is in custody and clock is ticking, it is case if by any means possible. It is a similar situation for unidentified dead bodies where decomp or a messy death (haemorrhage) has occurred and they want to identify the person.

Also they get me do the same for bum phones (concealed prison phones), they are normally brought into digital forensics by a prison police officer who observes whilst I clean it, then the digital guys do their bit. Prison phones are always wrapped in plastic, but still have to be cleaned the same as a blood incident, most of the time there are drugs concealed in them. Even the tiny finger and key fob phones.

Hope this explains things more clearly

There doesn’t appear to be as much activity, but there was still a police van parked up the path running between the pub and the memorial place earlier...there’s been one there all week.

But there has definitely been a reduction in their presence

This is all fascinating and useful info - thanks

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Yes, probably wasn’t clear on that point.
<snip>
Also they get me do the same for bum phones (concealed prison phones)
</snip>

Oy!! God bless ya ...

Thank you so much for chiming in! How fascinating.