UK - London's Burning - Tottenham Riots, August 2011

[badhorsie]

The rioters didn't appear to have any concerns for human rights when they started up,so why should we be worried about theirs?

Because we are a civilized nation?

 

[badhorsie]

From the BBC, The competing arguments used to explain the riots
Many theories have been posited about the underlying causes of the riots in England - from moral decay to excessive consumerism. Here two criminologists give their views on some of the arguments.

 

[Jade]

Blaming immigration is pandering to the lowest common denominator and suggests blind ethnocentrism.

Patriotism is not static: as Orwell wrote,



It's from his great essay "The Lion and the Unicorn," in which he also noted that England was a family, but.....



Relying on anecdotal accounts and received wisdom only blocks one's view of the real problem, both in England and here in the United States.

Have you read Orwell’s Down and Out in Paris and London?

When I read it right out of college, poor as church mice, we would darkly joke all we would have for dinner is “tea and two slices”

Here is a link to read it on line for free. The first part is about Paris. London part starts at XXIV.

But do read it all!

http://www.george-orwell.org/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_London/23.html

A few paragraphs from the start of London:

I travelled to England third class via Dunkirk and Tilbury, which is
the cheapest and not the worst way of crossing the Channel. You had to pay
extra for a cabin, so I slept in the saloon, together with most of the
third-class passengers. I find this entry in my diary for that day:

'Sleeping in the saloon, twenty-seven men, sixteen women. Of the
women, not a single one has washed her face this morning. The men mostly
went to the bathroom; the women merely produced vanity cases and covered
the dirt with powder. Q. A secondary sexual difference?'

On the journey I fell in with a couple of Roumanians, mere children,
who were going to England on their honeymoon trip. They asked innumerable
questions about England, and I told them some startling lies. I was so
pleased to be getting home, after being hard up for months in a foreign
city, that England seemed to me a sort of Paradise. There are, indeed, many
things in England that make you glad to get home; bathrooms, armchairs,
mint sauce, new potatoes properly cooked, brown bread, marmalade, beer made
with veritable hops--they are all splendid, if you can pay for them.

England is a very good country when you are not poor; and, of course, with
a tame imbecile to look after, I was not going to be poor. The thought of
not being poor made me very patriotic. The more questions the Roumanians
asked, the more I praised England; the climate, the scenery, the art, the
literature, the laws--everything in England was perfect.

It turns out Orwell’s charge is to be out of the country and he is on the streets penniless.

Love Orwell!

My sympathies to all affected by the problems.

I am a fan of all things English and am grateful I have been able to read your thoughts on WS.

Did you all see the street in which every store was broken into and looted except for the bookstore which wasn’t touch not even a bit?

It may have done them some good to have a read of Orwell!


all imo

 

[wfgodot]

Have you read Orwell’s Down and Out in Paris and London?

When I read it right out of college, poor as church mice, we would darkly joke all we would have for dinner is “tea and two slices”

Here is a link to read it on line for free. The first part is about Paris. London part starts at XXIV.

But do read it all.

It turns out Orwell’s charge is to be out of the country and he is on the streets penniless.

Love Orwell!

My sympathies to all affected by the problems.

I am a fan of all things English and am grateful I have been able to read your thoughts on WS.

Did you all see the street in which every store was broken into and looted except for the bookstore which wasn’t touch not even a bit?

It may have done them some good to have a read of Orwell!


all imo

snip

Yes, George Orwell is one of a handful of heroes I've acquired over the years - reduced to a trilogy, these would include Lincoln, Dr King, and Orwell. "Down and Out in Paris and London" is a terrific read, "The Road to Wigan Pier," "Homage to Catalonia"; likewise the novel "Burmese Days," and of course his two best-known works of fiction. The essays are the real treats. ('Politics and the English Language,' 'Decline of the English Murder,' etc. etc.)

 

[wfgodot]

Organic chef and an opera steward: How the well-heeled joined the downtrodden in looting spree

• Millionaire's daughter charged with taking £5,000 worth of electronic goods
• Primary school worker admits burglary at Richer Sounds
• Duo who made off with trolley full of power tools admit theft
• New father caught in looted shop told police he 'needed nappies'
• Convicted rioters warned they could lose council houses

Named and shamed, all sorts of pictures, etc. etc. at Daily Mail link above

 

[badhorsie]

Dalston riot dog survives against the odds

A dog who is presumed to have got lost during the Hackney riots “miraculously” escaped with his life after being run over by a train on Tuesday morning (August 9).
Full story and photo at link

 

[wfgodot]

It's a laugh riot: Irrepressible virals try to take a lighthearted view of England's unrest

A collection of photoshopped pics, many genuinely funny, at Daily Mail link above (plus two funny videos, one of them below).
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Ho3ZJbv40"]Looters hit 10 downing street. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Paulette]

Organic chef and an opera steward: How the well-heeled joined the downtrodden in looting spree

Named and shamed, all sorts of pictures, etc. etc. at Daily Mail link above

The Guardian has a spreadsheet that's downloadable with all the names, ages, and specific offenses of all the naughty people that have been caught.

What a hoot! Kind of negates the Human Rights issues discussed earlier. "Not their pictures, no, no, no" - just all the rest of their pertinent information.

Serves the daft lot right.

 

[wfgodot]

Excellent piece from Peter Oborne, chief political commentator for the conservative Daily Telegraph:

The moral decay of our society is as bad at the top as the bottom

---
But there was also something very phony and hypocritical about all the shock and outrage expressed in parliament. MPs spoke about the week’s dreadful events as if they were nothing to do with them.

I cannot accept that this is the case. Indeed, I believe that the criminality in our streets cannot be dissociated from the moral disintegration in the highest ranks of modern British society. The last two decades have seen a terrifying decline in standards among the British governing elite. It has become acceptable for our politicians to lie and to cheat. An almost universal culture of selfishness and greed has grown up.

It is not just the feral youth of Tottenham who have forgotten they have duties as well as rights. So have the feral rich of Chelsea and Kensington
---

Much more at link above.

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UK riots: police round on government

Met chief dismisses criticism from PM and home secretary as 'people making comments who weren't there'

The story at Guardian link above.

---

Tormented for years by yobs - who finally took his life:
Pensioner attacked by looters as he tried to put out fire dies in hospital

Rest in peace Richard Mannington Bowes. The story and pictures at Daily Mail link above.

 

[wfgodot]

To be a great city means sometimes to endure great hardship. A list of London riots from the Massacre of the Jews in 1189 to The Bawdy House Riots of 1668, the Gordon Riots of 1780, the Battle of Cable Street in 1936, and finally to the Tottenham Riots this week - most with page links:

List of London Riots 1189-2011 (Wiki)

 

[badhorsie]

Mother hands riot son over to Police

 

[badhorsie]

Excellent piece from Peter Oborne, chief political commentator for the conservative Daily Telegraph:

The moral decay of our society is as bad at the top as the bottomMuch more at link above.

---



---

Very good article, exposing the double standards of Britain's "Elite"

 

[For The Kids]

I'm disgusted. The sad thing is that they will get pathetic jail sentences of a matter of weeks if at all. Some of these people are Teachers! One 11 year old was in court today. My son returned from spending two weeks in Enfield on Sunday. Thank goodness he;s home. Bad,bad news.

Thats the thing..it was like it was meant to be poor deprived kids ( ?) doing this but it wasnt. On a news report tonight they said that 83% of the people charged so far were adults. Some of these people work in schools.....the care system...and one girl charged with five charges was in fact the daughter of a millionaire. It reminds me of the riots before in London when Charles and Camillas car was attacked and one of the boys arrested for doing it and urininating on the Cenotaph ( War Memorial ) was actually the son of David Gilmour (Of Pink Floyd ).

Tonight they showed a reporter interviewing some kids ( with here faces masked) who were involved in the riots. They said they had made several thousand pounds out of the riot. The weird thing it was like they thought it was due to them because ie people nearby had expensive flats and they didnt. Incidentally these pooooor deprived kids had very expensive sportswear on...

 

[For The Kids]

Because we are a civilized nation?

WE are yes but the rioters werent civilized with what they did And by that i dont necessarily mean the looting but for eg the robbing of the Malaysian lad they was supposedly trying to help last night or the murder of the guy who died last night or the three guys from Birmingham

 

[For The Kids]

A suspected looter in this week’s riots and his mother are being thrown out of their council home.
In the first case of its kind, Daniel Sartain-Clarke, 18, and his mother have been served with an eviction notice as council bosses seek to turf them out of their £225,000 taxpayer-subsidised flat.
Sartain-Clarke is charged with violent disorder and attempting to steal electronic goods from the Currys store at Clapham Junction, South London, on Monday night.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...evicted-Wandsworth-Council.html#ixzz1UqvSTjDR

To be honest...i think this is kind of unfair as hes not even been convicted yet.

 

[For The Kids]

This is just crap

On Thursday, Laura Johnson appeared at Bexleyheath Magistrates Court charged in connection with the theft of £5,000-worth of goods from a Comet store in Charlton, south London.




The undergraduate, 19, is a former grammar school pupil who achieved four A*s and nine As at GCSE.

She is currently studying English and Italian and is the daughter of a businessman who owns a large detached farmhouse in south east London, according to reports.

The University of Exeter has said it will await the outcome of further court proceedings before deciding whether to take any action.

seriously....WHY?? She has a good education and plenty of money.

More from that article and about a mother who shopped her daughter

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16048863

 

[badhorsie]

WE are yes but the rioters werent civilized with what they did And by that i dont necessarily mean the looting but for eg the robbing of the Malaysian lad they was supposedly trying to help last night or the murder of the guy who died last night or the three guys from Birmingham

I agree that their actions were uncivilized but my point was that the institutions that come into contact with these miscreants have to behave in a civilized manner

 

[badhorsie]

A suspected looter in this week’s riots and his mother are being thrown out of their council home.
In the first case of its kind, Daniel Sartain-Clarke, 18, and his mother have been served with an eviction notice as council bosses seek to turf them out of their £225,000 taxpayer-subsidised flat.
Sartain-Clarke is charged with violent disorder and attempting to steal electronic goods from the Currys store at Clapham Junction, South London, on Monday night.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...evicted-Wandsworth-Council.html#ixzz1UqvSTjDR

To be honest...i think this is kind of unfair as hes not even been convicted yet.

And this is going to help who?? They will most likely be homeless and it will put further pressure on the housing services, they will have to live somewhere.

Short term soundbite solutions, designed for publicity. It makes me sick.
Take their benefits away?
How do they get a job with a criminal record when 56 people are applying for each job??? They will have to turn to crime to exist

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[ohiogirl]

Excellent piece from Peter Oborne, chief political commentator for the conservative Daily Telegraph:

The moral decay of our society is as bad at the top as the bottomMuch more at link above.

---



---

Very good article, exposing the double standards of Britain's "Elite"

Not just Britain.

 

[For The Kids]

And this is going to help who?? They will most likely be homeless and it will put further pressure on the housing services, they will have to live somewhere.

Short term soundbite solutions, designed for publicity. It makes me sick.
Take their benefits away?
How do they get a job with a criminal record when 56 people are applying for each job??? They will have to turn to crime to exist

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

They are talking about taking there benefits away yes...which is unfair cause then how will he unemployed pay there fines? In fairness..they are the ones that rioted so if they have problems getting a job because they got a record in all honesty that is there own fault But one thing that gets me about them losing there council houses - i think this means they also wouldnt be entitled to a housing association place so...why does this not apply if for eg X lives in a council house and kills someone in there town? how come his family wouldnt lose there home if someone would for being related to a rioter? I understand they want to make examples of these people BUT...they need to be fair to everyone.