UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #12

[marynnu]

W

A nursing note is made for Child K by Lucy Letby, who was not Child K's designated nurse, at 6.04am-6.10am.
An x-ray records the ET tube is in the right place at 6.07am.
Dr Jayaram notes an event at 6.15am: '@0615 began to have lower sats & IV down to 2.5...Tube pulled back to 6cm".
Retrospective notes by Dr Jayaram record: 'Tube noted to have slipped to 8cm @ lips - withdrawn and heart rate picked up immediately.'
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, February 27


opening speech -

"Later the same morning, Letby was again at child K’s cot calling for help.
She was assisting the baby with her breathing and it was found child K’s breathing tube had this time slipped too far into her throat."
https://www.itv.com/news/granada/20...n-alleged-to-have-been-murdered-by-lucy-letby


Pros'n say that Lucy Letby logged onto baby K's nursing record despite the fact that she was not her designated nurse.

Pros'n: Shortly afterwards at the shift handover, Nurse Letby was again at baby K's cot calling for help. She was assisting the baby with her breathing and it was found that this time, the breathing tube had slipped too far into her throat
https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz [Tweets October 12th 2022]

Well done! This passed me by entirely.

 

[WaxLyrical]

RSBM

No, the second alleged insulin poisoning happened two months later, April 9th 2016 - child L.


Allegations and designations by month -

8 Jun 2015 - A - murder - night – room 1 - designated
10 Jun 2015 - B - attempted murder - night – room 1 - not designated – LL room 3
14 Jun 2015 - C - murder - night – room 1 - not designated – LL room 3
22 Jun 2015 - D - murder - night – room 1 - not designated – LL room 1

4 Aug 2015 - E - murder - night – room 1 - designated
5 Aug 2015 - F - attempted murder - night – room 2 - not designated – LL room 2 (insulin)

7 Sep 2015 - G - attempted murder - night – room 2 - not designated – LL room 1
21 Sep 2015 - G - 2 x attempted murder - day - designated
26 Sep 2015 - H - attempted murder - night – room 1 - designated
27 Sep 2015 - H - attempted murder - night – room 1 - not designated – LL room 2
30 Sep 2015 - I - attempted murder - day – room 3 - designated

13 Oct 2015 - I - attempted murder - night – room 2 - not designated – LL room 1
14 Oct 2015 - I - attempted murder - night – room? - designated
23 Oct 2015 - I - murder - night – room 1 - not designated – LL room 3

27 Nov 2015 - J - attempted murder – moved from room 4 to room 2 - night – not designated – LL room 3

17 Feb 2016 - K - attempted murder - night – room 1 – not designated – LL room ?

9 Apr 2016 - L - attempted murder - day – room 1 – not designated – LL room 1 (insulin)
9 Apr 2016 - M - attempted murder - day – room 1 – not designated – LL room 1

3 Jun 2016 - N - attempted murder - night – room ? - not designated – LL room 4
15 Jun 2016 - N - 2 x attempted murder - day – room 3 - designated
23 Jun 2016 - O - murder - day – room 2 - designated
24 Jun 2016 - P - murder - day – room 2 - designated – but care transferred – not-designated
25 Jun 2016 - Q - attempted murder - day – room 2- designated

Yes, I stand corrected, I think I’m getting confused as the baby K info is not in chronological order.

By Feb 2016 there was already one case of insulin poisoning, not two.

 

[infinit]

Might not be much documentation if the administrators didn't want it to go anywhere.

I went looking and the NHS does have a whistleblowing service that could potentially have been used: NHS England » Speaking up to NHS England

What I find pretty shocking compared to the Policies I've seen working at banks and other large organisations is that they all made it very clear that any retribution from speaking up they'd deem a disciplinary offence to try to encourage people to come forward. Browsing that NHS site I can't even see it mentioned.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

A nursing note is made for Child K by Lucy Letby, who was not Child K's designated nurse, at 6.04am-6.10am.
An x-ray records the ET tube is in the right place at 6.07am.
Dr Jayaram notes an event at 6.15am: '@0615 began to have lower sats & IV down to 2.5...Tube pulled back to 6cm".
Retrospective notes by Dr Jayaram record: 'Tube noted to have slipped to 8cm @ lips - withdrawn and heart rate picked up immediately.'
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, February 27


opening speech -

"Later the same morning, Letby was again at child K’s cot calling for help.
She was assisting the baby with her breathing and it was found child K’s breathing tube had this time slipped too far into her throat."
https://www.itv.com/news/granada/20...n-alleged-to-have-been-murdered-by-lucy-letby


Pros'n say that Lucy Letby logged onto baby K's nursing record despite the fact that she was not her designated nurse.

Pros'n: Shortly afterwards at the shift handover, Nurse Letby was again at baby K's cot calling for help. She was assisting the baby with her breathing and it was found that this time, the breathing tube had slipped too far into her throat
https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz [Tweets October 12th 2022]

2 centimeters, eh? @marynnu what do you think?

 

[katydid23]

Likewise may not be much documentation if the consultants in hindsight aren't recalling it accurately.

If Dr J had said he alone had gone to the admins, then I would have some questions about it. But if others come forward to say they also expressed concerns, then I think it will be corroborated and I will trust their recollections.

I say that because I worked in the public schools for years and it is very similar. Usually the staff at the school can pick up on problematic teachers/staff members before the administration ever does.

And quite often the admins push back when other staff come in with their concerns. It is rarely 'documented' when the first meetings about it happen because it is usually informal and no reports will be done if it is just 'a conversation' about some concerns.

It has to be a formal complaint and/or accusation for a document to be filed. If a couple staff or teachers go in to principal to say they are concerned with a teacher's behaviour, but do not have solid proof or evidence of a specific 'bad act' it is not going on anyone's records. Which is probably a good thing.

 

[marynnu]

2 centimeters, eh? @marynnu what do you think?

Everything my opinion only:

Well, 2cms is a lot isn't it? So hard to comment as that's all we know at the moment. All I'd say is that by now Baby K was sedated with morphine and had a larger tube in situ, both of which IMO makes movement less likely. I assume this episode will be covered later, so let's see.

 

[marynnu]

Was LL still on duty the second time it moved do we know?

She was in the room later it seems, thanks to Tortoise for the above post!

 

[Parker Knoll]

I went looking and the NHS does have a whistleblowing service that could potentially have been used: NHS England » Speaking up to NHS England

What I find pretty shocking compared to the Policies I've seen working at banks and other large organisations is that they all made it very clear that any retribution from speaking up they'd deem a disciplinary offence to try to encourage people to come forward. Browsing that NHS site I can't even see it mentioned.

But at the time did they though ? Freedom To Speak Up was actually only brought in after the Francis report in 2016, so that was unavailable to these doctors or have I got that wrong ? Apologies if so.

 

[katydid23]

This has a lot more details about the doctors concerns:

Doctors warned Lucy Letby 'harming babies 8 months before removal'

Doctors warned hospital bosses that nurse Lucy Letby (pictured) could be harming premature babies at least eight months before she was removed from work, a court heard yesterday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

He told Mr Myers how his paediatric colleague, Stephen Brearey, had been the first to raise the concerns of senior medics on the unit.

'We tried our best to escalate our concerns to senior management. We took it to senior executive level.

'The concerns were raised by Stephen Brearey before this incident and in the February before or after this we raised them again.

'We had really significant concerns from the autumn of 2015 and we raised them with the executive director of nursing.

'As clinicians we put our faith in senior management as to how it could be investigated. The initial response was to carry on and see what happens.

'We flagged it up again in the February to the medical director and the director of nursing.

'My colleague Dr Brearey asked to have a meeting. They didn't respond to that for another three months. In retrospect we wish we'd bypassed them and gone to the police'.



also:

When he agreed that his earlier suspicions about Letby had crossed his mind when seeing her in the nursery, the barrister put it to him: 'You'd got her then!'

Dr Jayaram replied: 'No, because I'd never seen her doing anything'.

He went on to explain that senior medics on the unit had wanted senior management to investigate the association between Letby's presence and the fact that 'more and more of these events were happening'.

'We wanted to have this investigated objectively in an appropriate way. We were unclear how we could have that investigated in an appropriate way.

'There was absolutely no evidence that we could prove anything because that's not our job as doctors.

'As a group of consultants we had experience or knowledge of unusual events, and there was one particular nurse associated with them'.

Asked whether he should have confronted Letby since he suspected she had done something to K on purpose, he replied: 'Absolutely not. It's not my job to do that. It's my job to deal with the baby'.

He rejected Mr Myers' assertion that if the incident had happened as he was telling the jury, and as he had previously told the police, he would have confronted her.

The paediatrician had not written a Datix report on the incident because he didn't think that was the right way to proceed.

Dealing with the issue of a colleague who might be harming babies was 'unfortunately not something we're taught at medical school'.

 

[ColourPurple]

,

Everything my opinion only:

Well, 2cms is a lot isn't it? So hard to comment as that's all we know at the moment. All I'd say is that by now Baby K was sedated with morphine and had a larger tube in situ, both of which IMO makes movement less likely. I assume this episode will be covered later, so let's see.

Are they saying that minutes after the Xray showed that the tube was in the correct postion, it moved 2cm so that it was no longer in the corrrect position?

So
6.07 Xray confirms tube is in correct position
6.04-6.10 LL is logged into Baby K's record , making a note
6.15 Baby K's sats drop, DR J called and tube has moved 2cm

And it was LL who called Dr J and was with baby K when he arrvied?

 

[infinit]

But at the time did they though ? Freedom To Speak Up was actually only brought in after the Francis report in 2016, so that was unavailable to these doctors or have I got that wrong ? Apologies if so.

Good point, reading the context part of the report it seems it was a bit piecemeal beforehand.

http://freedomtospeakup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/F2SU_web.pdf

 

[LorriB]

Are they saying that minutes after the Xray showed that the tube was in the correct postion, it moved 2cm so that it was no longer in the corrrect position?

So
6.07 Xray confirms tube is in correct position
6.04-6.10 LL is logged into Baby K's record , making a note
6.15 Baby K's sats drop, DR J called and tube has moved 2cm

And it was LL who called Dr J and was with baby K when he arrvied?

I assumed it was when the xray came back rather than it being done minutes before. JMO though

Surely Dr J wouldn't have left LL alone a second time with the same baby. Very interested in hearing if this was the case.

Anyone know why no reporting today?

 

[ShireChe]

I think that us saying senior management should have acted on the concerns is easier in hindsight too sat in 2023. They had to rule out petty politics and vendattas , and all sorts of other circumstances first and that would take 6 months to make sure they were being fair to her ? No one could have immediately said yes this must be a mass murderer of babies, if indeed that is what the situation is , which even in 2023 it is so hard to believe and be sure of.


If CoC hospital had been like Grey Sloan hospital, then Dr J would have yelled at LL after walking in to see Baby K 's tube potentially dislodged and the alarm off - and if he had gotten it wrong - they still would have been best friends two episodes later - but in real life he would have been accused of bullying , right ? - and also had potentially destroyed his working rapport with one of the most senior nurses on the floor.

I disagree with this. If a group of senior doctors and clinicians are telling senior management about concerns they have with unusual deaths and patterns, the hospital should 100% be acting on that and not sitting around for 6 months doing nothing.

The hospital has to safeguard it's patients as well as it's staff.

 

[scottishgal]

So the days when there is no reporting on the trial, it is closed to public and press till the case ends, or do we get to know anything significant by COB today/tommr? thanks

 

[marynnu]

,



Are they saying that minutes after the Xray showed that the tube was in the correct postion, it moved 2cm so that it was no longer in the corrrect position?

So
6.07 Xray confirms tube is in correct position
6.04-6.10 LL is logged into Baby K's record , making a note
6.15 Baby K's sats drop, DR J called and tube has moved 2cm

And it was LL who called Dr J and was with baby K when he arrvied?

Well, that's a very good point. I wonder who held the baby for the Xray?

EDIT the point has been made that we do not know if 6.07 refers to the Xray time or the reporting.

 

[WaxLyrical]

So the days when there is no reporting on the trial, it is closed to public and press till the case ends, or do we get to know anything significant by COB today/tommr? thanks

Don’t think court is sitting today, it’s not listed. If it was, we’d likely hear at least something in the form of tweets, or at worse a round up article in the evening

 

[TheCraig]

Don’t think court is sitting today, it’s not listed. If it was, we’d likely hear at least something in the form of tweets, or at worse a round up article in the evening

Doctor ‘felt uncomfortable at thought of Lucy Letby being alone with baby girl’

A CONSULTANT doctor said he “felt extremely uncomfortable” at the thought of nurse Lucy Letby being alone with a baby girl.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

It says at the bottom of this article that it’s sitting today

 

[Marantz4250b]

I disagree with this. If a group of senior doctors and clinicians are telling senior management about concerns they have with unusual deaths and patterns, the hospital should 100% be acting on that and not sitting around for 6 months doing nothing.

The hospital has to safeguard it's patients as well as it's staff.

Precisely - this is surely inexorably tied to the whole "do no harm" principle when practicing medicine?

I'd still like to know who these other consultants were and the exact nature and context of their reports.

 

[ShireChe]

Precisely - this is surely inexorably tied to the whole "do no harm" principle when practicing medicine?

I'd still like to know who these other consultants were and the exact nature and context of their reports.

Yes. I think there is a lot we won't find out in this case. Certainly in terms of what senior management knew and what they did. I suspect that will form part of a later inquiry regardless of LL being found guilty or not guilty

 

[WaxLyrical]

Doctor ‘felt uncomfortable at thought of Lucy Letby being alone with baby girl’

A CONSULTANT doctor said he “felt extremely uncomfortable” at the thought of nurse Lucy Letby being alone with a baby girl.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

It says at the bottom of this article that it’s sitting today

Perhaps but LL’s trial is not listed on Manchester crown court listings today