UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #14

[Bakers]

She hadn’t been accused of a crime at this point though. The note was written before her arrest.

I believe she new what was being said around the hospital although we haven't heard any evidence of this in court I also believe she new she was the only suspect,I'm sure anyone would

 

[DianaWW]

I believe she new what was being said around the hospital although we haven't heard any evidence of this in court I also believe she new she was the only suspect,I'm sure anyone would

As you say, we don’t know that yet. Hopefully we will find out. JMO.

 

[Sweeper2000]

It’s difficult to think of exactly when this note was written. she does mention the police investigation so was presumably well after being put on clerical if the police investigation comes after internal investigation. Yet it’s difficult to decipher who she is referring to. I think the “written evidence“ is a reference to the hospital staff. So presumably in line with what she has been informed of with the grievance procedure. Is also after the police so at this point in time she had definitely been informed of any evidence and reasons for the investigation to advance to the police. The hospital staff had to tell her of any evidence at that point and it took years for the police to find anything so at the time of writing had been informed that the hospital had no evidence. Imo


think that’s right.

 

[esther43]

the “I am evil” could easily be taken as someone speaking figuratively or from the mindset of someone placing themselves in the shoes of someone who actually had done it. Depends how much weight you add to it.

im confident the unit more or less as a whole were in utter disbelief when they moved her to clerical. The pers coms give absolutely no indication that she was indeed suspected by her fellow nurses or indeed senior staff, they all seem mostly tight. Including some docs. I can imagine them trying to reassure her whilst being on clerical, giving her some fuel to stay and see it through. i couldn’t really say what happened after, with it being downgraded to a L1 though. Probably zero deaths at all. Remember none of the nurses testimony has actually been damning of her at all, they didn’t see anythin or even reported concerns or anything at all. I might guess that they thought the same of her but will without a doubt be looking to the Verdict.

I thought about the figurative option but ruled it out on the basis that it would feature more question marks. I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough? I am evil'? I did this?
Just aware that maybe if a person knew they were suspected of a crime like this they may take that extra step to remember the punctuation.
I do agree though that's it's likely that it was written when the defendant was in a destructive mindset. I think somewhere between confession and denial.
It reminds me of my dairying as a teenager. Where in complete frustration you write everything down to express anger but also to make sense of things. You leave certain things ambiguous in case anyone reads the diary, you also express far fetched thoughts, usually about others, conveying things in the worst light, also aware that the diary may be found.
It's part of the brain dumping/ risk taking one undertakes when adding private thoughts to paper.
Cryptic messaging in diary writing is all about that balance a person must find when making sense of things/ risking exposure. Moo

 

[Tortoise]

It’s difficult to think of exactly when this note was written. she does mention the police investigation so was presumably well after being put on clerical if the police investigation comes after internal investigation. Yet it’s difficult to decipher who she is referring to. I think the “written evidence“ is a reference to the hospital staff. So presumably in line with what she has been informed of with the grievance procedure. Is also after the police so at this point in time she had definitely been informed of any evidence and reasons for the investigation to advance to the police. The hospital staff had to tell her of any evidence at that point and it took years for the police to find anything so at the time of writing had been informed that the hospital had no evidence. Imo


think that’s right.

It wasn't the same note where she mentioned the police investigation.

 

[DianaWW]

I just think that if she truly knew that police were investigating her for murder, she would have got rid of anything that could be considered incriminating. The notes, the paperwork relating to these babies etc. we know she’s not stupid. So that’s what leads me to believe she had no idea. I really don’t think she was expecting her arrest at all.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Sweeper2000]

It wasn't the same note where she mentioned the police investigation.

You think there is a gap in time between them? I thought would be around the same time.

have we heard much about the internal investigation? I can’t remember it if we have.

 

[Tortoise]

You think there is a gap in time between them? I thought would be around the same time.

have we heard much about the internal investigation? I can’t remember it if we have.

what made you think different notes in her house were written around the same time?

All investigations would have been highly confidential, IMO.

 

[WaxLyrical]

I don't think it was understood that wrongdoing or misconduct was alleged.

The deaths were being investigated to see if they were natural or otherwise, or due to services, and the defence says they were all natural or due to services. The outcome of the initial investigation was not known to police until her arrest and it was a confidential process.

JMO

She was the only one we know of moved to admin duties and away from patients. Even Dr B said after LL was taken off it was the “same staff”. I’m not sure how else she’d be able to explain or justify her change in duties of it wasn’t that she was suspected of not doing her job adequately.

 

[esther43]

You think there is a gap in time between them? I thought would be around the same time.

have we heard much about the internal investigation? I can’t remember it if we have.

JMO .. but I would imagine she would have been sent to work in one of the offices away from the children's and neonatal unit.
It's possible that sometime after this ..who knows how long after ..she may have put a grievance in about being made to stay away from her Job.

I'd be surprised if she stayed on clerical duties for the entire time ..I'd imagine she would have been suspended on full pay at some point until charged

I think a lot of people can perform admin duties from home. She could have been given some or no responsibilities.

 

[Sundial]

JMO .. but I would imagine she would have been sent to work in one of the offices away from the children's and neonatal unit.
It's possible that sometime after this ..who knows how long after ..she may have put a grievance in about being made to stay away from her Job.

I'd be surprised if she stayed on clerical duties for the entire time ..I'd imagine she would have been suspended on full pay at some point until charged

Or remote working. I can’t imagine “what” she would remote work on if that were true though, but I agree, potentially she may have been sent away from the unit entirely, photocopying or working alongside someone in the offices perhaps.
JMO

 

[DianaWW]

She was the only one we know of moved to admin duties and away from patients. Even Dr B said after LL was taken off it was the “same staff”. I’m not sure how else she’d be able to explain or justify her change in duties of it wasn’t that she was suspected of not doing her job adequately.

Not doing her job properly is very different to deliberate harm though IMO. Completely different things to be accused of. ‘They don’t have evidence’ doesn’t really apply to the former IMO, so if that’s all she thought the reason for the move was, it’s an odd thing to write.

But we don’t know what she was told yet, so pure speculation on my part.

 

[Sweeper2000]

what made you think different notes in her house were written around the same time?

All investigations would have been highly confidential, IMO.

well they would only have been written as a reaction to the circumstances Your right though. I reckon the “written evidence to support “ note was written when it was an internal investigation and she hadn’t been told of anything at that point. She doesn’t actually know at this point. Then we have the “hide away” note which is after the internal investigation which came back inconclusive and presumably she was made aware as per policy and then police were bought in to rule out foul play and then we have the “confession note”.

 

[Tortoise]

She was the only one we know of moved to admin duties and away from patients. Even Dr B said after LL was taken off it was the “same staff”. I’m not sure how else she’d be able to explain or justify her change in duties of it wasn’t that she was suspected of not doing her job adequately.

This is veering away from the point, IMO. It's about her knowing "they have no evidence".

One has to ask how she knows that they have no evidence before the conclusion of investigations and before she was arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder. I have seen nothing that indicates staff below consultant level suspected acts of deliberate harm.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

This is veering away from the point, IMO. It's about her knowing "they have no evidence".

One has to ask how she knows that they have no evidence before the conclusion of investigations and before she was arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder. I have seen nothing that indicates staff below consultant level suspected acts of deliberate harm.

JMO

I think that particular note “no evidence so why hide away” was actually written once the internal investigation had finished and was wondering why she had been put on clerical for all that time if there was “no evidence“. the way I see that note is like “I haven’t done anything wrong“ she is saying she didn’t do anything so not worried but the ”no evidence” part may indicate that she has thought there maybe something that implicates her evidentially and when after the internal investigation she is told they have no evidence she is wondering why she has had to be off the unit. I think maybe

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think a lot of people can perform admin duties from home. She could have been given some or no responsibilities.

I think she was probably put on a full exclusion or suspension after op hummingbird. So maybe was on clerical for about a year whilst an internal investigation was under way.

 

[Tortoise]

I think that particular note “no evidence so why hide away” was actually written once the internal investigation had finished and was wondering why she had been put on clerical for all that time if there was “no evidence“. the way I see that note is like “I haven’t done anything wrong“ she is saying she didn’t do anything so not worried but the ”no evidence” part may indicate that she has thought there maybe something that implicates her evidentially and when after the internal investigation she is told they have no evidence she is wondering why she has had to be off the unit. I think maybe

No I don't think she would have known there was no evidence after the internal investigation, clearly the deaths were still unexplained and the deaths themselves were evidence to pass on for further investigation.

 

[Sweeper2000]

No I don't think she would have known there was no evidence after the internal investigation, clearly the deaths were still unexplained and the deaths themselves were evidence.

They have to tell her once the internal investigation is finished Of any reason including any evidence to hand the investigation to an external organisation. that’s the policy as best I can gather. presumably the only reason to continue keeping her off duties and further the investigation is the fact that the deaths were still unexplained.

 

[Dotta]

I just think that if she truly knew that police were investigating her for murder, she would have got rid of anything that could be considered incriminating. The notes, the paperwork relating to these babies etc. we know she’s not stupid. So that’s what leads me to believe she had no idea. I really don’t think she was expecting her arrest at all.

Just my opinion of course.

IMO she was oblivious as if living in different reality.

The note was for herself.
Do people lie to themselves?

The note by itself is worthless, but when taking everything into account, all "coincidences" in hospital - it appears to be the final touch.

My Opinion of course.

 

[Tortoise]

They have to tell her once the internal investigation is finished Of any reason including any evidence to hand the investigation to an external organisation. that’s the policy as best I can gather. presumably the only reason to continue keeping her off duties and further the investigation is the fact that the deaths were still unexplained.

Yes but continued investigation does not imply she committed a crime, so I don't believe she would have been told they had no evidence.