UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #15

[Tortoise]

I imagine a lot will be released to and by the media if they secure a conviction. Will be interesting to see what comes out afterwards either way. Although, I imagine it's unlikely we will get snippets whilst still ongoing, probably just the reporters transcribing?

I think in a few cases I've followed they have released snippets of interview tapes to the media, during trial, but I think it's entirely down to the judge and media applications to publish. I wouldn't like to guess in this case, I think it might be safer to wait with such a high profile case and social media being what it is.

 

[Dcflag]

I’m still not sold on Mr Myers, I’d love to see some footage to see how he comes across in general. Has he ever done a medical case before?

I’m not sure if this is within the rules of the site, but while we’ve got a bit of a wait for court to kick back in, I wonder if anyone has any credible defence theories to discuss? I know we all had a bit of a laugh when Dr Evans came to the stand today,<modsnip - sub judice>

 

[DinerMite]

Mr Myers said: “What you have done is invent an extra dollop of air to try to take your theory over the line.”

Dr Evans replied: "I have not invented any dollops.

“The idea that I could get it all perfectly right from looking at all the notes is simply unrealistic.

“I was not able to speak to any member of the local staff, I was never going to get everything 100% correct.”

He said he had come to his latest conclusion after following the evidence in the trial.

Mr Myers said: “Nothing from the clinical records had changed.”

Dr Evans replied: “I am giving you my opinion.”

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-03-23/baby-boy-died-after-nurse-forced-air-down-feeding-tube-murder-trial-told

 

[ColourPurple]

I think in a few cases I've followed they have released snippets of interview tapes to the media, during trial, but I think it's entirely down to the judge and media applications to publish. I wouldn't like to guess in this case, I think it might be safer to wait with such a high profile case and social media being what it is.

I was just thinking, didnt we see some snippets in the Becky Watts and Helen Bailey cases. Or maybe I'm just remembering the ones released afterwards, as I think I remember Nathan Matthews and Ian Stewart both taking the stand too.

 

[Tortoise]

I was just thinking, didnt we see some snippets in the Becky Watts and Helen Bailey cases. Or maybe I'm just remembering the ones released afterwards, as I think I remember Nathan Matthews and Ian Stewart both taking the stand too.

we did see them, and I think NM's were released before he changed his mind and took the stand.

I think, not certain though, Stewart's were released after the trial.

 

[WaxLyrical]

I’m still not sold on Mr Myers, I’d love to see some footage to see how he comes across in general. Has he ever done a medical case before?

I’m not sure if this is within the rules of the site, but while we’ve got a bit of a wait for court to kick back in, I wonder if anyone has any credible defence theories to discuss? I know we all had a bit of a laugh when Dr Evans came to the stand today,<modsnip - sub judice>

I think Myers will not be coming across as badly as we might sometimes suspect, he’s been described as excellent at building rapport with juries. If I was ever accused of being a serial killer, I reckon I’d be happy to have a silk like Myers. Fun fact, before being a lawyer he was in the army, served in the gulf war, and he also authors children’s books.

 

[Dcflag]

I think Myers will not be coming across as badly as we might sometimes suspect, he’s been described as excellent at building rapport with juries. If I was ever accused of being a serial killer, I reckon I’d be happy to have a silk like Myers. Fun fact, before being a lawyer he was in the army, served in the gulf war, and he also authors children’s books.

Children’s books?! Bless him I’m sorry everyone, after my last post I went away to do some better research on him and got distracted. From what I’ve read so far people do seem to think very highly of his skills and his respectful manner (which I certainly don’t think has come across in the reporting!) I’m away to continue my research now

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

It's usually released to the media if there's a conviction

I reckon if she’s convicted there’s gonna be a documentary out within a few months

 

[Sweeper2000]

I reckon if she’s convicted there’s gonna be a documentary out within a few months

wasn’t there one on Netflix already ? Xd

 

[Tortoise]

I am very curious about Mr Myers' decision to revisit the matter of child O's liver trauma today. Was he really expecting Dr Evans to say 'oh yes, now you've shown me that video of CPR, and asked me again, I do remember it happens sometimes'. Perhaps trying to override expert opinion, and play to the lack of medical experience of the jurors understanding where the internal organs are?


15th March cross-exam -

Baby allegedly murdered by nurse Lucy Letby was injected with air,...

"Mr Myers said: “I suggest that vigorous chest compressions can cause or are capable of causing internal injuries to the liver.”

Dr Evans replied: “I have never seen it.”

Fellow expert witness, neonatologist Dr Sandie Bohin, said she too had never seen liver damage from CPR."


Lucy Letby: Baby triplet died after trauma to liver, jury told

"Dr Evans ruled out CPR being a cause for the liver bleed, saying that the chest compressions needed by Child O on 23 June were "carried out by experienced doctors" and "doesn't get near the liver"."

Baby killed with injection of air by nurse Letby, medical expert says

"My feeling was that what came first was the liver haematoma, the liver trauma. 'We've heard from the local medical team about the resuscitation they carried out, but the chest compressions didn't get near the liver'. Dr Evans told Nick Johnson KC, prosecuting, he had invited police to ask an expert pathologist to view the available evidence 'and to ask whether, in the pathologist's view, it was likely to be the result of trauma'."




Then today Mr Myers went back to it, in the middle of child P's case -

Chester Standard -

"Mr Myers is first asking about the efforts to save Child P's brother Child O, about damage to the liver. Mr Myers asks if this could come as a result of chest compressions. Dr Evans says if the compressions are done properly, this would not be the case. A video is shown to the court showing the correct procedure on providing chest compressions to an infant.
Mr Myers again asks if it is possible for damage to be caused to the liver by several minutes of 'vigorous' chest compressions. Dr Evans says he has never seen it in his experience."


Tweets

"Mr Myers is first dealing with a matter from last week's evidence on Child O. The lawyer suggested to Dr Evans that injury found to Child O's liver post-mortem could have been caused in resuscitation attempts, the doctor refutes that this is possible with professional medics

Court is currently being shown an X-ray of Child O and Dr Evans is pointing out to the jury where the liver is - he says 'if you are an experienced CPR neonatal doctor' you know where to place thumb/finger to carry out resus

Mr Myers says it's 'entirely possible in the course of vigorous chest compressions over several minutes that the liver can sustain damage' Dr Evans says 'I've never seen it'"

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

Ok, I think some things are coming together for me. It sounds like Dr. Bohin is alluding to the idea that the collapses P had in the morning triggered some pulmonary hypertension, which they were not able to get under control, and which then led to his death. That would explain the adrenaline infusion (trying to improve cardiac function and keep the systemic blood pressure up) and potentially the "high" ventilator settings (PIPs I assume). It doesn't sound like, from her testimony, that P experienced any of the potentially negative effects of the double starting dose of adrenaline infusion could have caused. Not ideal but not harmful. I expect this must have been explored in greater depth for the jury. JMO.

 

[May72031]

I imagine a lot will be released to and by the media if they secure a conviction. Will be interesting to see what comes out afterwards either way. Although, I imagine it's unlikely we will get snippets whilst still ongoing, probably just the reporters transcribing?

In the UK, we usually get a few short clips (a couple of minutes). In contrast, in the USA, we often get hours long interrogations, which has led to the phenomenon of YT channels devoted to psychologists and body language experts evaluating them. Would love that in this case, if we got that far.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

I am very curious about Mr Myers' decision to revisit the matter of child O's liver trauma today. Was he really expecting Dr Evans to say 'oh yes, now you've shown me that video of CPR, and asked me again, I do remember it happens sometimes'. Perhaps trying to override expert opinion, and play to the lack of medical experience of the jurors understanding where the internal organs are?

Yes, this was really curious to me as well. I think you are right - trying to cast doubt on the expert testimony. I think it's been mentioned before that the expert witnesses are hired for the benefit of the court, not for the prosecution or the defense. Is this how the jurors will understand it?

 

[Tortoise]

What 5 months of Mr Myers' questions has done to Dr Evans


Lucy Letby killed baby a day after injecting him with air, trail hears


Baby killed with injection of air by nurse Letby, medical expert says

 

[Sweeper2000]

What 5 months of Mr Myers' questions has done to Dr Evans

View attachment 410686
Lucy Letby killed baby a day after injecting him with air, trail hears

View attachment 410688
Baby killed with injection of air by nurse Letby, medical expert says

if he looks that bad just after a Starbucks I can’t imagine what he looks like after a day of Myers style grilling.

 

[Dotta]

What 5 months of Mr Myers' questions has done to Dr Evans

View attachment 410686
Lucy Letby killed baby a day after injecting him with air, trail hears

View attachment 410688
Baby killed with injection of air by nurse Letby, medical expert says

Ridiculing experts sounds desperate in my book.
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, this was really curious to me as well. I think you are right - trying to cast doubt on the expert testimony. I think it's been mentioned before that the expert witnesses are hired for the benefit of the court, not for the prosecution or the defense. Is this how the jurors will understand it?

That is exactly right, their duty is to the court and the jury, not the parties, and the jury will be told that.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think Myers will not be coming across as badly as we might sometimes suspect, he’s been described as excellent at building rapport with juries. If I was ever accused of being a serial killer, I reckon I’d be happy to have a silk like Myers. Fun fact, before being a lawyer he was in the army, served in the gulf war, and he also authors children’s books.

I'm not convinced we are getting entirely accurate reporting here. I'm sure that none of the reporters are consciously being intentionally biased but I think that something is creeping in, perhaps subconsciously, that is skewing the reports.

From what I've read of Mr Myers, on here and elsewhere, the reports don't tend to paint him in the image that I would expect.

On the subject of various news outlets; the Daily Mail gets similar criticism on here as it does on many other forums - it's like people just love to un-associate themselves with it - yet they have, by a long way IMHO, had probably the best and most comprehensive coverage of any media outlet reporting on this case.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Children’s books?! Bless him I’m sorry everyone, after my last post I went away to do some better research on him and got distracted. From what I’ve read so far people do seem to think very highly of his skills and his respectful manner (which I certainly don’t think has come across in the reporting!) I’m away to continue my research now

I'm ever more convinced that there is some bias creeping into the reporting. I think it started a long way back when the first court artist's drawings were shown - this is entirely my opinion only but, I cannot believe that LL looks anything remotely like the drawings!

 

[Marantz4250b]

I reckon if she’s convicted there’s gonna be a documentary out within a few months

There will be a special on ITV or C4 that evening or the following one - guaranteed!