UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #18

[Tortoise]

interesting. im not sure I read that as 100% certainty that AE is the cod. Mr Myers questioning made him change his wording didn’t it? Even dr marnerides never said it with absolute certainty.

Could you provide quotes with links please

 

[katydid23]

Quite a lot more detail on interview transcripts in this article

Accused nurse wrote note because ‘everything got on top of me’, court told

Lucy Letby denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder another 10 at the Countess of Chester Hospital’s neo-natal unit.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

Asked about the Post-it note – found inside a diary at her home in Chester after her arrest in 2018 – she told detectives: “I just wrote it because everything had got on top of me.

“It was when I’d not long found out I’d been removed from the unit and they were telling me my practice might be wrong, that I needed to read all my competencies – my practice might not have been good enough.

“So I felt like people were blaming my practice, that I might have hurt them without knowing through my practice, and that made me feel guilty and I just felt really isolated.

“I was blaming myself but not because I’d done something (but) because of the way people were making me feel.

“But like I’d only ever done my best for those babies and then people were trying to say that my practice wasn’t good, that I’d done something.

“I just couldn’t cope and I just did not want to be here any more.

“I just felt it was, it was all just spiralling out of control, I just didn’t know how to feel about it or what was going to happen or what to do.”

The detective asked: “What people were they?”

Letby replied: “The Trust and the staff on the unit.”

The detective said: “Did you ever make any mistakes?”

“No,” replied Letby.

The detective asked: “In your own mind had you done anything wrong at all?”

Letby said: “No, not intentionally, but I was worried that they would find that my practice hadn’t been good…”

The detective said: “What made you think they might find something that was wrong or that you shouldn’t have done?”

Letby said: “It was more that I was worried they’d already gone to the lengths of redeploying me and moved me from the unit and banning contact, I didn’t know how it was gonna go.

“I didn’t think they’d find that I’d been incompetent but I was worried that they might try and assume that I had been just because I was there for all of these babies.”

She said she had met with the head of nursing in July and was told “there had been a lot more deaths and that I’d been linked as somebody that was there for a lot of them”.

Letby said: “They also said that there was some other people that had flagged as being on shift for a lot of them and that myself and these other people are gonna have to be going and redoing our competencies.”

Asked why she wrote “slander, discrimination and victimisation” on the note, she replied: “Cos I felt that the trust and the team were trying to imply that it, it was something I’d done.”

She added: “I’d lost everything and obviously mum and dad were down in Hereford… and I thought we were a good team regardless of who was my friends, we were a good nursing team on the unit and I’d just lost that. We were like a little family.”

“I felt if my practice hadn’t been right then I had killed them and that was why I wasn’t good enough.”

The detective said: “In what way do you think your practice might have been the reason why these babies have died?”


Letby said: “I didn’t know, I thought maybe I’d missed something, maybe I hadn’t acted quickly enough.”

The detective went on: “And you felt evil?”

Letby replied: “Other people would perceive me as being evil, yes, if I had missed something.”

==========================================================================

I'm not sure I'm buying what she's selling.
On one hand, she is trying to say she feels she might have been responsible for the injuries and deaths because she was not a good enough nurse, and may have missed something, on the other hand she says NO , when asked if she made any mistakes and says she didn't think she did anything wrong but was worried that others think so.

“I didn’t think they’d find that I’d been incompetent but I was worried that they might try and assume that I had been just because I was there for all of these babies.”


So WHY say "I AM EVIL, I DID THIS"---when you are clearly stating that you weren't incompetent, didnt do anything wrong but were just worried you'd be blamed?

 

[esther43]

Asked about the Post-it note – found inside a diary at her home in Chester after her arrest in 2018 – she told detectives: “I just wrote it because everything had got on top of me.

“It was when I’d not long found out I’d been removed from the unit and they were telling me my practice might be wrong, that I needed to read all my competencies – my practice might not have been good enough.

“So I felt like people were blaming my practice, that I might have hurt them without knowing through my practice, and that made me feel guilty and I just felt really isolated.

“I was blaming myself but not because I’d done something (but) because of the way people were making me feel.

“But like I’d only ever done my best for those babies and then people were trying to say that my practice wasn’t good, that I’d done something.

“I just couldn’t cope and I just did not want to be here any more.

“I just felt it was, it was all just spiralling out of control, I just didn’t know how to feel about it or what was going to happen or what to do.”

The detective asked: “What people were they?”

Letby replied: “The Trust and the staff on the unit.”

The detective said: “Did you ever make any mistakes?”

“No,” replied Letby.

The detective asked: “In your own mind had you done anything wrong at all?”

Letby said: “No, not intentionally, but I was worried that they would find that my practice hadn’t been good…”

The detective said: “What made you think they might find something that was wrong or that you shouldn’t have done?”

Letby said: “It was more that I was worried they’d already gone to the lengths of redeploying me and moved me from the unit and banning contact, I didn’t know how it was gonna go.

“I didn’t think they’d find that I’d been incompetent but I was worried that they might try and assume that I had been just because I was there for all of these babies.”

She said she had met with the head of nursing in July and was told “there had been a lot more deaths and that I’d been linked as somebody that was there for a lot of them”.

Letby said: “They also said that there was some other people that had flagged as being on shift for a lot of them and that myself and these other people are gonna have to be going and redoing our competencies.”

Asked why she wrote “slander, discrimination and victimisation” on the note, she replied: “Cos I felt that the trust and the team were trying to imply that it, it was something I’d done.”

She added: “I’d lost everything and obviously mum and dad were down in Hereford… and I thought we were a good team regardless of who was my friends, we were a good nursing team on the unit and I’d just lost that. We were like a little family.”

“I felt if my practice hadn’t been right then I had killed them and that was why I wasn’t good enough.”

The detective said: “In what way do you think your practice might have been the reason why these babies have died?”


Letby said: “I didn’t know, I thought maybe I’d missed something, maybe I hadn’t acted quickly enough.”

The detective went on: “And you felt evil?”

Letby replied: “Other people would perceive me as being evil, yes, if I had missed something.”

==========================================================================

I'm not sure I'm buying what she's selling.
On one hand, she is trying to say she feels she might have been responsible for the injuries and deaths because she was not a good enough nurse, and may have missed something, on the other hand she says NO , when asked if she made any mistakes and says she didn't think she did anything wrong but was worried that others think so.

“I didn’t think they’d find that I’d been incompetent but I was worried that they might try and assume that I had been just because I was there for all of these babies.”


So WHY say "I AM EVIL, I DID THIS"---when you are clearly stating that you weren't incompetent, didnt do anything wrong but were just worried you'd be blamed?

It is indeed a leap..

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

If her coping skills are that impaired, how was she such a stellar nurse during all of those resuscitations she was commended for? It doesn't make sense.

Well you can be good in one situation and a mess everywhere else. I know a lot of really phenomenal doctors and nurses who put everything in to being good at work, and drive around in cars that look like garbage cans, haven't seen a physician or dentist in 10 years due to untreated anxiety, and are general messes. None of them are murderers (that I know of) but impaired coping skills are not exclusive with being able to do your job.

Besides, I think we have a lot of evidence that Letby has unusual, possibly poor, if not pathological coping skills. I'm not saying this makes her innocent or guilty. There are plenty of people with unhealthy or dysfunctional coping skills who are not murderers. But, murderers generally don't have good coping skills or they wouldn't be solving their problems or gratifying their desires by killing people. JMO.

 

[Dotta]

This "shredder lie" was soooo silly
My poor jaw hit the floor while reading it.

Also self pitying "Im hard on myself"
got on my last nerve.

JMO

 

[Popcorn80]

So much for me only coming back to this at closing statements!
I could be totally wrong, but I think she’s first up for the defence.
IMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Could you provide quotes with links please

thats my mistake there then. I hadnt recalled the without a doubt use of languag but thought the most certainty was dr evans saying “a strong diagnosis“ which isn’t absolute certainty.

dr marnerides said he thought it “most likely“ that these globules of air traveled while the baby was still alive.

i was Hoping to hear more about the globules tbh I thought that was the hardest evidence the prosecution had to offer.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Well you can be good in one situation and a mess everywhere else. I know a lot of really phenomenal doctors and nurses who put everything in to being good at work, and drive around in cars that look like garbage cans, haven't seen a physician or dentist in 10 years due to untreated anxiety, and are general messes. None of them are murderers (that I know of) but impaired coping skills are not exclusive with being able to do your job.

Besides, I think we have a lot of evidence that Letby has unusual, possibly poor, if not pathological coping skills. I'm not saying this makes her innocent or guilty. There are plenty of people with unhealthy or dysfunctional coping skills who are not murderers. But, murderers generally don't have good coping skills or they wouldn't be solving their problems or gratifying their desires by killing people. JMO.

its true. Most murders are commited by people not having enough coping mechanisms to maintain control IMO Ie “seeing red”.

 

[katydid23]

thats my mistake there then. I hadnt recalled the without a doubt use of languag but thought the most certainty was dr evans saying “a strong diagnosis“ which isn’t absolute certainty.

dr marnerides said he thought it “most likely“ that these globules of air traveled while the baby was still alive.

i was Hoping to hear more about the globules tbh I thought that was the hardest evidence the prosecution had to offer.

The thing is, one has to look at the entire year span , from June 2015 to June 2016, as one big picture.

If you take each individual charge and look at it in an isolated way, one can come up with unlikely but possible explanations for each incident. [except for the 2 insulin poisonings]

But when you look at the big picture and the overall pattern, so many things fall into place. So many timing coincidences that couldn't ALL be just coincidences. So many little suspicious details. Baby N attacked on June 15th-----LL goes on vacation, then on the very day of her return, 8 days later, Baby O dies unexpectedly, then his triplet brother hours later, and a 3rd collapse the next night. But during her 8 day vacation, no unexpected collapses on the unit.

We have posted a lot of coincidences here already. The allegations are just allegations until the entire picture takes shape. JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

The thing is, one has to look at the entire year span , from June 2015 to June 2016, as one big picture.

If you take each individual charge and look at it in an isolated way, one can come up with unlikely but possible explanations for each incident. [except for the 2 insulin poisonings]

But when you look at the big picture and the overall pattern, so many things fall into place. So many timing coincidences that couldn't ALL be just coincidences. So many little suspicious details. Baby N attacked on June 15th-----LL goes on vacation, then on the very day of her return, 8 days later, Baby O dies unexpectedly, then his triplet brother hours later, and a 3rd collapse the next night. But during her 8 day vacation, no unexpected collapses on the unit.

We have posted a lot of coincidences here already. The allegations are just allegations until the entire picture takes shape. JMO

It’s all been a bit bizarre IMO katydid. I don’t think today’s evidence looks good for her at all. That shredder thing was Barmy.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Come to think of it why was the coms between doc choc and ll such a prominent thing in the evidence?

 

[katydid23]

Come to think of it why was the coms between doc choc and ll such a prominent thing in the evidence?

I think it showed what a skilled and highly competent nurse she could be when under pressure. [which goes against defense narrative that she and others were giving sub-optimal care. And against her explanation that she might have accidentally killed them]

It also was a little window into her shared experiences with him----she LOVED hearing all the compliments about her being so calm and strong under pressure. And they cooed to each other about how there's no one else they'd rather be with when in battle ...And he even went a bit overboard about how perfect she was in all areas of her role...

 

[katydid23]

The thing is, one has to look at the entire year span , from June 2015 to June 2016, as one big picture.

If you take each individual charge and look at it in an isolated way, one can come up with unlikely but possible explanations for each incident. [except for the 2 insulin poisonings]

But when you look at the big picture and the overall pattern, so many things fall into place. So many timing coincidences that couldn't ALL be just coincidences. So many little suspicious details. Baby N attacked on June 15th-----LL goes on vacation, then on the very day of her return, 8 days later, Baby O dies unexpectedly, then his triplet brother hours later, and a 3rd collapse the next night. But during her 8 day vacation, no unexpected collapses on the unit.

We have posted a lot of coincidences here already. The allegations are just allegations until the entire picture takes shape. JMO

Oh, to add to the 'coincidences' above:

I wonder what the chances are of two separate sets of twins being born at the hospital with one poisoned with insulin, and one given an AE. In both cases.

Two different sets of twins, both being cared for by LL and her colleagues, had exact same unexplained collapses.

One twin was poisoned by insulin, and the other had an air embolism. In both sets of twins.

TWO sets of twins with the same very strange unexplained maladies.

 

[Lincoln34]

Her diary entries read a lot like those of a close friend who had a total mental breakdown. She was writing bizarre stuff and then after a while could not stop manic rambling, and then had a total breakdown. She was not in the health sector though

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Its not very logical, imo. Plenty of incompetent (at their jobs) people get married! I don't think most men taking out a woman on a first date wants to know her resume...

I think you'd only worry about such a thing if you'd done something deliberately wrong, not just been a bit bad at your job. After all, plenty of people move into new jobs all the time because their old ones didn't suit.

Unless of course, she was thinking of specific men she already knew.

That's what I was thinking. Men / a man she worked with and believed she was building something with? Maybe.

 

[Kemug]

I wonder what the chances are of two separate sets of twins being born at the hospital with one poisoned with insulin, and one given an AE. In both cases.
Two different sets of twins, both being cared for by LL and her colleagues, had exact same unexplained collapses.
One twin was poisoned by insulin, and the other had an air embolism. In both sets of twins.
TWO sets of twins with the same very strange unexplained maladies.

RSBM
I would say that the chances of that happening are absolutely nil. That's a lot more than just one coincidence, that's at least 4 (maths is not my strong suit). <modsnip - sub judice>

 

[esther43]

I think it showed what a skilled and highly competent nurse she could be when under pressure. [which goes against defense narrative that she and others were giving sub-optimal care. And against her explanation that she might have accidentally killed them]

It also was a little window into her shared experiences with him----she LOVED hearing all the compliments about her being so calm and strong under pressure. And they cooed to each other about how there's no one else they'd rather be with when in battle ...And he even went a bit overboard about how perfect she was in all areas of her role...

I perceived a lot of the texts as attempts by LL to stimulate a particular action from the recipients.

 

[esther43]

Oh, to add to the 'coincidences' above:

I wonder what the chances are of two separate sets of twins being born at the hospital with one poisoned with insulin, and one given an AE. In both cases.

Two different sets of twins, both being cared for by LL and her colleagues, had exact same unexplained collapses.

One twin was poisoned by insulin, and the other had an air embolism. In both sets of twins.

TWO sets of twins with the same very strange unexplained maladies.

Yep, three sets of twins in total and one set of multiples. I find it strange that this has not been highlighted by the prosecution. I think anyone working in NICU would say, it's highly unusual for twins in NICU to get sick at the exact same time and to have this happen four times in a year with multiples is just bonkers..

 

[Dotta]

Yep, three sets of twins in total and one set of multiples. I find it strange that this has not been highlighted by the prosecution. I think anyone working in NICU would say, it's highly unusual for twins in NICU to get sick at the exact same time and to have this happen four times in a year with multiples is just bonkers..

I guess Prosecution is keeping it for the final Closing Speech.
It will be damning IMO.

Although I still remember Judge's remark about KC Nick J's timbre of voice inducing sleep

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I think they did that in the beginning, before they even knew there was any kind of malicious actor.

They already had statistical analysis running automatically, to pick up any abnormalities in the hospital. They are always looking at trends, positive or negative, in the various units.

And this sudden spike in collapses was very pronounced. They were not looking at nurses or doctors as being any kind of culprits at the time. They were looking at viral infections, lack of proper training, or something like that to try and understand what was happening.

Well, that is serious. Britain’s corruption index is relatively low. So if they took into account all changes, inevitably accruing as the time goes by, and still saw a some additional shadow lurking in the background, it explains a lot.