UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

[Jazmania]

Her answers about the handover notes don't really make sense. If she thoughtlessly carried notes home and just shoved them wherever without giving them a second thought. Why were some kept in a box labelled 'keep' in her parents home? (she doesn't know). Why were the babies in the case mostly kept in the Morrisons bag with a few other none case babies, but most of the 200 odd were found elsewhere. As the cases span the whole year, they must have been sorted into that bag and separated from the others. If you had only recently acquired a shredder, surely you would be more likely to remember you had one than if you had had one for ages but it was barely used.

 

[JosieJo]

Her answers about the handover notes don't really make sense. If she thoughtlessly carried notes home and just shoved them wherever without giving them a second thought. Why were some kept in a box labelled 'keep' in her parents home? (she doesn't know). Why were the babies in the case mostly kept in the Morrisons bag with a few other none case babies, but most of the 200 odd were found elsewhere. As the cases span the whole year, they must have been sorted into that bag and separated from the others. If you had only recently acquired a shredder, surely you would be more likely to remember you had one than if you had had one for ages but it was barely used.

Totally agree ..made more thought provoking as she had moved home

 

[Marantz4250b]

The shredder’s back!

Seems quite clear she did lie to police about it. I find it difficult to see how you’d forget you have a shredder in your spare room that you use to shred your bank statements. JMO.

Yes agreed on that point. It's really strange.

I do think, though, that this tends to point towards some sort of compulsive behavior relating to these handover sheets. Something that she's unable to face up to. Whether that's because it's related to the alleged crimes or just some other weird part of her character I'm not sure.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I wonder if they found more collections of random pieces of paper or items in LL’s home that would be back up her not being able to throw things away?

Did she keep random things like receipts for example or old birthday/Christmas cards? If her collection of handover sheets is the only collectors item she was interested in then it doesn’t really sound like she didn’t like to throw things away in general, comes across as though they were significant to LL in some way. IMO

 

[ConcernedThirdParty]

Her answers about the handover notes don't really make sense. If she thoughtlessly carried notes home and just shoved them wherever without giving them a second thought. Why were some kept in a box labelled 'keep' in her parents home? (she doesn't know). Why were the babies in the case mostly kept in the Morrisons bag with a few other none case babies, but most of the 200 odd were found elsewhere. As the cases span the whole year, they must have been sorted into that bag and separated from the others. If you had only recently acquired a shredder, surely you would be more likely to remember you had one than if you had had one for ages but it was barely used.

Sounds from the prosecution the other day, the 257 cover much of her career - i.e. not nearly every hand over from the year June 2015 - June 2016, only some are from then.

I see mention today of her diary recording her moving home, if you just shove important docs that need secure disposal (which you don't at the time have a shredder for or don't get round to doing) to one side, then like me, you probably move house and have a box of documents, or a bigger moving box containing assorted stuff that you know can't simply be thrown out (thus labelled "Keep") and needs going through at some point. I'd guess the 31 are just the ones since the last time she emptied her bag out and dealt with them. And I'd guess the 17 don't relate to 17 babies, but 17 shifts where she was caring for most likely the last few babies.

Like others, I'm struggling to picture this bag - how are the handover sheets concealed within it?

 

[Sundial]

All the more reason to relieve yourself of the pressure of work by separating your home life from your work life, as is professional. Imo.

And taking the suggested break as was reported by dr B after the death of 2 of the triplets. JMO

 

[esther43]

So LL has confirmed that she she had difficulties with getting rid of things, for example the handwritten notes but she did not feel the same way about the handover notes.

"Mr Myers: "Did you ever think to yourself, blimey, I have got a lot of handover sheets, I had better get rid of them?"

Letby: "No."

"Letby says the notes had no purpose at home and she did not think of them "

 

[Sweeper2000]

Yes but why didn't she add them as friends?

Easy from a proffesional POV its a harmless thing to fb search them but adding them as friends is a step too far. Same way she has a strange attachment to the handover notes and other notes as well.

 

[Becci]

About the shredder, i could easily see how that got overlooked in her interview.
With all the chaos going on & say for example her dad gave it her because he'd got a new one,
It could've gone over her head at time of questioning maybe?
The amount of times ma mum has brought something round & I've wondered where it's came from at 1st is quite a lot lol

 

[WaxLyrical]

T

Sounds from the prosecution the other day, the 257 cover much of her career - i.e. not nearly every hand over from the year June 2015 - June 2016, only some are from then.

I see mention today of her diary recording her moving home, if you just shove important docs that need secure disposal (which you don't at the time have a shredder for or don't get round to doing) to one side, then like me, you probably move house and have a box of documents, or a bigger moving box containing assorted stuff that you know can't simply be thrown out (thus labelled "Keep") and needs going through at some point. I'd guess the 31 are just the ones since the last time she emptied her bag out and dealt with them. And I'd guess the 17 don't relate to 17 babies, but 17 shifts where she was caring for most likely the last few babies.

Like others, I'm struggling to picture this bag - how are the handover sheets concealed within it?

17 of the sheets had information about 13 of the babies, not including the post-Ibiza ones, so likely Baby B onwards.

 

[WaxLyrical]

About the shredder, i could easily see how that got overlooked in her interview.
With all the chaos going on & say for example her dad gave it her because he'd got a new one,
It could've gone over her head at time of questioning maybe?
The amount of times ma mum has brought something round & I've wondered where it's came from at 1st is quite a lot lol

She’d been using it to shred her bank statements though.

 

[esther43]

Easy from a proffesional POV its a harmless thing to fb search them but adding them as friends is a step too far. Same way she has a strange attachment to the handover notes and other notes as well.

I the distinction is more between being professional/ unprofessional rather than harmless/ damaging.
Imagine you went to the Dr one day and he popped a spectrum down your penis and then Facebook searched you nine times. Would you be comfortable with that?
Re handover notes, she's already explained that she didn't have a 'weird relationship' with them.
They 'meant nothing'

 

[Imnothere]

Question

Is this part of the trial just a summary of her general thoughts? Will the prosecution get to ask any questions now about what she has said on the stand? Or do they have to wait until the defense start back on Baby A?

 

[Legal]

3:10pm

A diary entry for April 12, 2016 is for meeting friends at her new home, including one of her work colleagues.
Shifts for April 15-17 were changed from 'N' to 'LD'.
Further social engagements are noted for Tatton Park, Las Iguanas, salsa in Mold.
Notes on May 2016 show, in blue ink on an 'LD' shift, the first names of two babies not on the indictment.
Letby says those names were written as something notable had happened. A note on May 14 also has the name of a student nurse, which Letby says was 'documented' as it was important at work when mentoring took place.
.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

BBM

Notes on May 2016 show, in blue ink on an 'LD' shift, the first names of two babies not on the indictment.
Letby says those names were written as something notable had happened.

So there was another shift where something notable happened and the names of the babies were written in her diary. I wonder what happened.

 

[Imnothere]

3:43pm

Letby says she would "inadvertently" bring home handover notes from work.

3:47pm

Letby says the handover notes would have stayed in her bags from the last days of her working on the neonatal unit in 2016.
A photo of a cupboard at Letby's parents' home in Hereford is shown to the court. The cupboard is in Letby's bedroom.
The box is labelled 'keep' and contained five handover sheets not relating to babies in the indictment.
Mr Myers asks why those handover sheets were there. Letby replies she was not sure. Letby said she had never fully moved out of her parents' home, so items would go back to that home. She said she did not know she had them.

3:50pm

Mr Myers says that concludes his questions on items found at the addresses.
He says his attention will next turn to the cases of the babies themselves.
He asks about Letby's recollection of the events in general.
Letby agrees that, like several of the witnesses who have come into court, her memory of the events is not as clear as it was seven or eight years ago.

3:54pm

Mr Myers refers to the number, and length, of the police interviews which took place with Letby following her arrests - "in excess of 21 hours".
Letby said the process of recollecting was "extremely difficult", and she relied "heavily" on police's explanations for what happened.
Mr Myers: "Have you ever tried to kill any baby you cared for?"
"No."
Have you tried to intentionally harm any baby as is alleged?
"No, never."
Letby denies using insulin, overfeeding, forcing air or committing a physical assault to intentionally harm a baby.

3:57pm

Mr Myers says the case will next discuss the case of Child A.

 

[esther43]

About the shredder, i could easily see how that got overlooked in her interview.
With all the chaos going on & say for example her dad gave it her because he'd got a new one,
It could've gone over her head at time of questioning maybe?
The amount of times ma mum has brought something round & I've wondered where it's came from at 1st is quite a lot lol

He talked about the handover notes that hand made it to LLs parents house but he made no reference to the handover sheets that were found in the shredder box.
There must have been an association for LL between the notes and the shredder. Even if she didn't recall it today.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I the distinction is more between being professional/ unprofessional rather than harmless/ damaging.
Imagine you went to the Dr one day and he popped a spectrum down your penis and the Facebook search you right times in a month. Would you be comfortable with that?
Re handover notes, she's already explained that she didn't have a 'weird relationship' with them.
They 'meant nothing'

Less uncomfortable than I would were it a Commodore 64!!!

On the last point; I don't believe that she didn't have a weird affinity to these notes. She clearly does to have that many. I'm not sure it's evidence of murder, though. I do think there is something in her that she can't address as to why she has them all. Same goes for the rest of her seemingly obsessional traits.

 

[notsure]

Exactly.
What Notsure is suggesting is for journalists to report subjectively. This, of course, is a massive no-no.
JMO

On the BBC lunchtime news bulletin, the reporter stated that LL "spoke quietly." Would you call that subjective? He appears to have got away with it, though, so I think it was fine.

 

[ConcernedThirdParty]

I the distinction is more between being professional/ unprofessional rather than harmless/ damaging.
Imagine you went to the Dr one day and he popped a spectrum down your penis and then Facebook searched you nine times. Would you be comfortable with that?
Re handover notes, she's already explained that she didn't have a 'weird relationship' with them.
They 'meant nothing'

I wouldn't know anything about it and it's not something I waste time thinking about - but I think it's safe to presume that any doctor of an age that uses Facebook will occasionally look up patients and perhaps some of the doctors and nurses you've encountered have looked you up. You can safely presume, whether or not they are on Facebook, that you have been discussed with the doctors colleagues in a non-clinical context. These are normal human behaviours. Doctors and nurses who say this is always inappropriate and does not normally happen, might be technically correct on the first point, but are simply not being included on the second.

 

[Sundial]

So I think what she’s saying is she used the same carrier bag every day for work, and her uniform etc would be in there. In which case it sounds like the notes were just building up in there until she started using a new bag. So was she carrying these handover notes to and from work every day?

This makes no sense; if she’s getting changed from work with her shoes and lunch and documents etc every time she has a shift, and those notes are in that bag (or whatever bag she is using), she would surely see those notes every time she got her lunch out, changed her uniform, shoes.. unless she is completely blindfolded everytime she puts her hand in that bag I fail to see how she could not have known.

If they are just left stuffed in the uniform pocket as she’s taken it off, it sounds like she’s emptying the pockets at home to wash it, and putting those notes back into the bag- but essentially, still wondering back and forth to work with all these documents in the same bag and it doesn’t cross her mind that while she’s grabbing her lunch or whatever, to take them to the designated waste whilst she’s on hospital site.
I’m really not buying this at all.
JMO