VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #28

[GoodDayToYouSir]

I prefer pen and paper to make notes sometimes.
I know that is a LOADED answer !

Me too. I would want to use the iPad pen to highlight the docs given on the iPad - but whether the jury gets that feature or if it’s just an iPad to look at is another matter.

But I would have to have a notebook and various coloured pens for note taking .

 

[Parker Knoll]

Yes absolutely thanks to @Tortoise and @katydid23 specially as Katy on the other side of the pond !
Dedicated doesn’t cover it.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Can't quite believe were now at the point of deliberations. This time next week we could have the verdict. I was hoping it would be televised but seems unlikely due to restrictions

Verdicts are never televised. Sentencing's sometimes are.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Here we go folks, that moment has arrived. Big thanks to all who contributed and special thanks for those who organised the info in a digestible way. It’s Been many many thins following the case, from enlightening to disconcerting. Let’s hope justice is done.

 

[Dotta]

Just want to thank everyone who has done updates over the last 9 months especially @Tortoise ....and I know @katydid23 spent many a twilight hour also.

And I wonder WHO was here from the VERY beginning

I was glued to these threads from Day1 - much to my family's displeasure

 

[Penny68]

I wonder maybe during the later trial if they had access to any collapses, or sad deaths of babies in the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester hospital, since LL was taken off that department.

I really feel that would have been nil to very minimal to have been recorded. Just of course to see the comparison since the large amount happening when LL was on that neonatal unit.

 

[katydid23]

This is why it will take ages I think, as some will take the judges line of "you can use other guilty decisions to inform weaker cases" differently to others. Some will want to wrangle over each and every case to feel confident on it, in isolation of the other charges, rather than the "pattern approach" the judge allowed

They are going to need a really really good foreperson if they want to get this done in a timely fashion. Someone needs to get them working together and being realistic.

I think they might have to 'abandon' some of the Attempted Murder charges if they do get on a mission to hash out every single detail and question. Some questions cannot ever be fully answered in a complex case.

So it might not be possible to come to a unanimous satisfying conclusion for every single charge.

At the end, it might be mixed messages but the way the facts are laid out, some are more obvious than others. JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

And I wonder WHO was here from the VERY beginning

I was glued to these threads from Day1 - much to my family's displeasure

This subject is how I found WS. I'm a bit of a latecomer as I only first heard of this when she was charged in November 2020 and that was nearly three years ago now! Shew was first arrested July 2018!!!

 

[Dotta]

This subject is how I found WS. I'm a bit of a latecomer as I only first heard of this when she was charged in November 2020 and that was nearly three years ago now! Shew was first arrested July 2018!!!

Phew!
So I am a latecomer b/c I started following since day1 but TRIAL in October 2022.
But I read about this case earlier in my country's MSM.

 

[bobbymkii]

Who else is actually massively impressed that they even managed to get this far without the trial collapsing? With all 12 jurors still in the trial as well!

 

[Penny68]

Can you imagine the sense of relief now they can FINALLY speak to each other about it. Wonder if everyone talks over each other in that urgency to offload?

Yes, I imagine they were all fit to burst prior to now they all can converse together.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Who else is actually massively impressed that they even managed to get this far without the trial collapsing? With all 12 jurors still in the trial as well!

I have to say that I'm quite surprised. I recall thinking it looked decidedly dicey back near the start.

 

[Becky53]

Latecomer here too and followed here after dates were given for the trial. Saw arrests (not literally ) on local news reports and snippets in Manchester Evending News.

 

[bobbymkii]

I have to say that I'm quite surprised. I recall thinking it looked decidedly dicey back near the start.

There have been a number of lengthy (albeit not lengthy compared to this one!) murder trials in E&W that I've been following this year that collapsed before the jury went out, so it's really quite incredible that this one not only made it to deliberations, but did so without a single juror being discharged!

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Pretty sure they do it all at the same time.

Yes I think they have to. If they come back when they have some verdicts but not others and say (eg guilty) then there is likely to be a reaction from certain parts of the court and that reaction could then influence how they decide the remaining charges if they then get to go back and continue deliberating.

So I think they have to come back when they have verdicts on everything or else have decided that they cannot reach a verdict on some charges even on a majority basis and then that is it for the “ undecided “ charges. They don’t get to go back and have another go at reaching a verdict. The prosecution would have to re-file the charges if it wish to obtain a definitive verdict one way or another on those particular cases.

 

[Anxala]

So what's the official time of the jury retiring then? The one upon which all the verdict bets are based?

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Just want to thank everyone who has done updates over the last 9 months especially @Tortoise ....and I know @katydid23 spent many a twilight hour also.

Yes, which case are you likely to turn your forensic gaze to next @Tortoise?

 

[bobbymkii]

So what's the official time of the jury retiring then? The one upon which all the verdict bets are based?

Dowling posted his update at 13:03, Dan on twitter said 13:04.
So 13:03:30?

 

[Dotta]

There have been a number of lengthy (albeit not lengthy compared to this one!) murder trials in E&W that I've been following this year that collapsed before the jury went out, so it's really quite incredible that this one not only made it to deliberations, but did so without a single juror being discharged!

Oh yeah
The latest I followed that collapsed was that teacher aka Tulip who blindfolded her bf in bed, stabbed him to death and then buried him in her back garden.

 

[Tortoise]

What if they agree on Guilty for one of the murder charges, and one of the Attempted murder charges on the same baby, but can't agree on one of the other attempted M charges of the same baby? Can they agree to 'not guilty ' on some charges in the case, but guilty to others?

There aren't any babies with both attempted murder and murder charges.