VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #29

[Tortoise]

Was this the baby where LL was said to ask who the "transfer team" was?

No, that was baby N

 

[MissMarbles]

Yep, definitely no verdict any time soon! They seem to be getting properly stuck into it.

That seems reassuring to me. It just feels right for them to not rush it.

 

[katydid23]

"At about 3pm, a note from the jury requested copies of agreed statements in respect of the charges for Child H.

Trial judge Mr Justice James Goss replied that copies of the transcripts were not possible to be delivered to members of the jury, but he could re-read, on request, which of those 12 agreed statements as they had been heard in court.

The jury retired for a few moments to indicate which agreed statements they wished to hear again.

Upon their return, the trial judge re-read agreed three statements; one from Child H's father, and two doctors who had been involved in the transport and care of Child H to Arrowe Park.

After the judge had finished reading the statements, the jury was sent home shortly before 4pm."

Lucy Letby trial jury sent home after deliberations for eighth day

THE jury in the trial of baby murder-accused nurse Lucy Letby has been sent home after deliberating for an eighth day today (Wednesday, July 26).

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

BBM

I haven't found the statements from the 2 transport doctors---but here is a description of her transfer:

The prosecution alleges that Letby was responsible for the incidents on successive night shifts in the early hours of September 26 and 27, 2015.

Following the second collapse, a consultant arrived at around 6am on September 27 and Baby H was subsequently transferred to Arrowe Park Hospital in Wirral.

The mother recalled: 'The first thing they did was disconnect the ventilator and re-connect it to their satisfaction.'

Numerous tests were also carried out there to try to establish the cause of the collapses, the court heard.

A brain scan showed Child H had suffered no long-term damage.

Instead, the court heard that the infant improved dramatically 'almost as soon as she arrived at Arrowe Park', with her mother saying 'she was like a completely different baby'.

Her husband added: 'She was only there a few days but she was just like a different baby.

'She was more responsive, She was more with it. She just came on in leaps and bounds.'

There were no further collapses and within 24 hours she was off the ventilator and back on a CPAP device to help her breathing.

Baby H was well enough to return to the Countess of Chester Hospital two days later. She was eventually discharged and allowed home on October 9, 2015.

She is now aged seven and has experienced no long-term health problems or issues.

Baby 'attacked by Letby' came on 'leaps and bounds' when she moved

 

[notsure]

Presumably they can make notes while the judge reads out the statements, so why not just give them the written version? The legal system baffles me...

 

[ColourPurple]

Just relisting the charges while we're trying to figure out where the jury may be in their deliberations. (murder charges - red, attempted murder charges-black )

Count 1 - Charged with murder of Baby A on June 8, 2015

Count 2 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby B between the June 8, 2015 and June 11, 2015

Count 3 - Charged with murder of Baby C on June 14, 2015

Count 4 - Charged with murder of Baby D on June 22, 2015

Count 5 - Charged with murder of Baby E on August 4, 2015

Count 6 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby F on August 5, 2015

Count 7 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby G on September 7, 2015

Count 8 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby G on September 21, 2015

Count 9 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby G on September 21, 2015

Count 10 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby H on September 26, 2015

Count 11 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby H on September 27, 2015

Count 12 - Charged with murder of Baby I on October 23, 2015

Count 13 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby J on November 27, 2015

Count 14 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby K on February 17, 2015

Count 15 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby L on April 9, 2016

Count 16 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby M on April 9, 2016

Count 17 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby N on June 3, 2016

Count 18 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby N on June 15, 2016

Count 19 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby N on June 15, 2016

Count 20 - Charged with murder of Baby O on June 23, 2016

Count 21 - Charged with murder of Baby P on June 24, 2016

Count 22 - Charged with attempted murder of Baby Q on June 25, 2016

 

[Jazmania]

Anyone got any guesses as to how long the judge will let it run until he asks for majority verdicts?

My totally uneducated guess would be at least until end of next week.

Something else to bet on?

 

[Dotta]

Presumably they can make notes while the judge reads out the statements, so why not just give them the written version? The legal system baffles me...

I guess it is to make Jurors
(generally speaking)
to pay attention in Court.
To prevent them from relying solely on copies they think might be later provided.

JMO

 

[notsure]

I guess it is to make Jurors
(generally speaking)
to pay attention in Court.
To prevent them from relying solely on copies they think might be later provided.

JMO

You're probably right, but people have different ways of learning. Personally, I absorb info better if I see it written down.

 

[ColourPurple]

You're probably right, but people have different ways of learning. Personally, I absorb info better if I see it written down.

Me too. Either written down or sang out loud to a tune...and I don't think the judge is likely to do the latter lol

 

[Dotta]

sang out loud to a tune...and I don't think the judge is likely to do the latter lol

Who knows?

Judge sings
Mr NJ KC dances

 

[Tortoise]

Presumably they can make notes while the judge reads out the statements, so why not just give them the written version? The legal system baffles me...

It's in the criminal procedure rules that evidence submitted in writing must be read aloud in court.

The Criminal Procedure Rules 2020

Personally I think it's to make it equal (in terms of impact) to the oral evidence of other witnesses, which they don't get in writing.

 

[May72031]

I'm visiting North Wales tomorrow with a friend. They will probably be asking why I keep checking my phone...

 

[marynnu]

Length of Deliberations Predictions (and backers!)

Mon 10th - day 1 (afternoon only) - 2pm to 4pm minus 5mins = 1h 55m
Tue 11th - day 2 - 4h 20m
Wed 12th - day 3 - 4h 20m
Thu 13th - day 4 - 4h 20m
Fri 14th - day 5 - 4h 20m
Mon 24th - day 6 - 4h 20m
Tue 25th - day 7 - 4h 20m
Wed 26th - day 8 - 4h 15m

Running total = 32h 10m


Still in the game -

32h 14m - @Kittybunny (backed by @marynnu )
34h - @bbsaz
35h 25m - @Dotta
41h 15m - @Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc
45h 10m - @esther43
58h - @Jw192
70h - @bobbymkii
75h - @CS2C
80h - @V347

The bell tolls for me I think!!

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I don’t think we will get a verdict this week possibly not even next week IMO. It seems like they’ve been deliberating a long time but with only 4.5 hours of deliberation per day and no deliberations last week we are only on the 8th day for 22 charges it could be a while longer IMO. 4.5 hours per day may just fly by in that room with 12 people wanting to speak, 22 charges and mountains of evidence to consider.

It’s starting to look IMO like the decision may be split at this point whether that’s 11/1 or 6/6 on some charges atleast. If all jurors were in agreement right off the bat then I don’t think they’d be going this deep into the evidence. And if it were only 1 or 2 charges they were struggling to be unanimous on, I still think they’d have verdicts by now so possibly there is a split opinion on several of the charges.

All MOO

The wait goes on….

 

[Marantz4250b]

Presumably they can make notes while the judge reads out the statements, so why not just give them the written version? The legal system baffles me...

I think it's so as to make sure that more significance is not given to the parts provided as a transcript. The argument might be that they get everything as a transcript or nothing. To provide everything as a written transcript would probably fill the jury room.

 

[Dotta]

The bell tolls for me I think!!

You have 9 lives.
Like a cat

 

[Marantz4250b]

You're probably right, but people have different ways of learning. Personally, I absorb info better if I see it written down.

I', a bit between the two. However, on the matter of physical paperwork against the electronic versions as they have been provided with on iPads, I'd go with physical paperwork every time. I find it immensely difficult to reference back to things when it's an electronic document but easier when it's actual papers.

 

[Kittybunny]

Length of Deliberations Predictions (and backers!)

Mon 10th - day 1 (afternoon only) - 2pm to 4pm minus 5mins = 1h 55m
Tue 11th - day 2 - 4h 20m
Wed 12th - day 3 - 4h 20m
Thu 13th - day 4 - 4h 20m
Fri 14th - day 5 - 4h 20m
Mon 24th - day 6 - 4h 20m
Tue 25th - day 7 - 4h 20m
Wed 26th - day 8 - 4h 15m

Running total = 32h 10m


Still in the game -

32h 14m - @Kittybunny (backed by @marynnu )
34h - @bbsaz
35h 25m - @Dotta
41h 15m - @Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc
45h 10m - @esther43
58h - @Jw192
70h - @bobbymkii
75h - @CS2C
80h - @V347

C'mon jury! You got 4 minutes to wrap this up tomorrow! Chop chop!

(In all seriousness...I'm backing @V347 when I'm out! I'm not at all optimistic.)

 

[WaxLyrical]

If one change comes out of this case, I hope they use it as an example of the need to update our court processes. Expecting a jury to sit through nine months of non stop medical testimony and rely only on notes they’ve jotted down on notepads they had to ask for (and fetch from WH Smith), is nothing short of ridiculous.

It’s so easy for us to go back and look at agreed statements. And yet that can’t, and they are the decision makers.

I wrongly assumed they had access to agreed statements on their iPads. But it sounds like their iPads contain only documents.

They should have, in my opinion, access to everything in writing. The technology exists to provide it to them. They have the benefit of having heard the evidence first hand, but they need something to refer back to.

I am also someone who needs to have things in writing, I struggle to retain information that I’ve heard. It’s why I scribble notes incessantly while I’m talking or listening, and often during work calls and meetings I will type up what is effectively a verbatim record of the discussion. It’s really the only way I can get the information into my head, and it’s a comfort to know I never have to rely on my memory.

I’m really feeling for this jury. It must be awful for them especially if there are disagreements on what was said, and by whom.

 

[marynnu]

C'mon jury! You got 4 minutes to wrap this up tomorrow! Chop chop!

(In all seriousness...I'm backing @V347 when I'm out! I'm not at all optimistic.)

What if it's 32 hours & 15 minutes? Do I still win? Heh heh.