VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #30

[JosieJo]

Aha the number three makes an appearance lol

Yes !!!!!! And didn't even think about it

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Are the jury sitting today?

 

[iamshadow21]

Are the jury sitting today?

They start at 1pm due to a juror having a morning appointment they couldn't miss.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

The verdicts will be in any year now; I’m sure of it….

 

[marynnu]

Waiting for the verdicts is like being in labour or waiting for a negative Covid test. Your rational brain knows it will end but it feels like we'll be stuck here forever.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The verdicts will be in any year now; I’m sure of it….

Well I dunno it's only another four a bit months to the end of the year.

I have this awful feeling like the jury are just going to fizzle out and fade away ... a bit like an Agatha Christie mystery where everyone disappears one by one...

Also I can't imagine how it can be resolved, now they've sat and listened to all that evidence now, if say three or four of them are absolutely convinced LL is not guilty. They're surely not going to change their minds at this juncture. So then you've potentially got 11 people sitting in a room not budging from their stance.

Worst case scenario but how long would something like that go on for? Judge has been generous to issue guidance of 10:1 but will they relent and say oh ok 9:2 or 8:3 over time or what happens?

 

[marynnu]

Well I dunno it's only another four a bit months to the end of the year.

I have this awful feeling like the jury are just going to fizzle out and fade away ... a bit like an Agatha Christie mystery where everyone disappears one by one...

Also I can't imagine how it can be resolved, now they've sat and listened to all that evidence now, if say three or four of them are absolutely convinced LL is not guilty. They're surely not going to change their minds at this juncture. So then you've potentially got 11 people sitting in a room not budging from their stance.

Worst case scenario but how long would something like that go on for? Judge has been generous to issue guidance of 10:1 but will they relent and say oh ok 9:2 or 8:3 over time or what happens?

I believe with 11 jurors it has to be 11:0 or 10:1.
They could be in agreement on anything between 0 and 21 of the cases. You can't infer anything from what has happened so far IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

Well I dunno it's only another four a bit months to the end of the year.

I have this awful feeling like the jury are just going to fizzle out and fade away ... a bit like an Agatha Christie mystery where everyone disappears one by one...

Also I can't imagine how it can be resolved, now they've sat and listened to all that evidence now, if say three or four of them are absolutely convinced LL is not guilty. They're surely not going to change their minds at this juncture. So then you've potentially got 11 people sitting in a room not budging from their stance.

Worst case scenario but how long would something like that go on for? Judge has been generous to issue guidance of 10:1 but will they relent and say oh ok 9:2 or 8:3 over time or what happens?

Nope, it's set in stone. 11-0 or 10-1 are the only acceptable votes. Anything else is recorded as 'no verdict'.

I think he'll leave them at least for one more week before telling them they must let him know if they can't get to those numbers, and then taking the verdicts if they say they can't agree.

 

[gc105]

Well I dunno it's only another four a bit months to the end of the year.

I have this awful feeling like the jury are just going to fizzle out and fade away ... a bit like an Agatha Christie mystery where everyone disappears one by one...

Also I can't imagine how it can be resolved, now they've sat and listened to all that evidence now, if say three or four of them are absolutely convinced LL is not guilty. They're surely not going to change their minds at this juncture. So then you've potentially got 11 people sitting in a room not budging from their stance.

Worst case scenario but how long would something like that go on for? Judge has been generous to issue guidance of 10:1 but will they relent and say oh ok 9:2 or 8:3 over time or what happens?

This is my worry at times. I feel like if jurors have made up their minds now, they’re unlikely to change their minds at this stage. So could have reached a stalemate at this point.

If this is the case - the issue I really question & worry about is - surely they must be unanimous or have a majority on some of the charges ( eg the murder ones). I understand the jurors will have been privy to much more information than us, but I just cannot understand 11 members of the public being so split on some of the charges tbh. But maybe that’s just because of my own feelings & views on LL what verdict I would deliver.

Again, all MOO.

 

[Tortoise]

I think it's very interesting that they haven't asked more questions, or asked to have more evidence read back to them.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I believe with 11 jurors it has to be 11:0 or 10:1.
They could be in agreement on anything between 0 and 21 of the cases. You can't infer anything from what has happened so far IMO.

Well we can infer some things - there's been a clear need to take guidance from the judge so they're obviously not unanimous. We know what the judge has said, he will accept a 10:1 if necessary.

What I'm wondering is, if there's more than one person who has sat through this case for 10 months and believes that LL is innocent, they're never going to achieve a verdict because those people are hardly likely to suddenly change their minds after all this time and I wonder where that would leave the situation.

 

[bbsaz]

I think it's very interesting that they haven't asked more questions, or asked to have more evidence read back to them.

Hmmm...what can we infer from that?
(Don't say 'nothing' as we need something to discuss!)

 

[gc105]

I think it's very interesting that they haven't asked more questions, or asked to have more evidence read back to them.

I was actually thinking this yesterday @Tortoise - they’ve only asked, what - 3/4 questions? One of which was for a copy of the judges closing summary. They’ve not asked many “specifics” at all. The only two I can think of was the question RE the insulin, and the question RE the fathers & doctors statements.

I half expected them to have more questions tbh.

 

[bbsaz]

I believe with 11 jurors it has to be 11:0 or 10:1.
They could be in agreement on anything between 0 and 21 of the cases. You can't infer anything from what has happened so far IMO.

But we can and will try to!!

 

[Eloise]

I've given up, there will never be a verdict. This jury will sit until the end of time.

 

[KathPlumber]

I had a bad dream about the resolution of this case last night and was very relieved to wake up and discover I had just imagined it.

This has never happened before despite following cases since 2016

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This is my worry at times. I feel like if jurors have made up their minds now, they’re unlikely to change their minds at this stage. So could have reached a stalemate at this point.

If this is the case - the issue I really question & worry about is - surely they must be unanimous or have a majority on some of the charges ( eg the murder ones). I understand the jurors will have been privy to much more information than us, but I just cannot understand 11 members of the public being so split on some of the charges tbh. But maybe that’s just because of my own feelings & views on LL what verdict I would deliver.

Again, all MOO.

I agree.

If they aren't unanimous on at least one case and if there's more than one person who is Not Guilty at this point, my fear would be this whole situation is a nightmare that can't be resolved and it will be a hung jury.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Hmmm...what can we infer from that?
(Don't say 'nothing' as we need something to discuss!)

That there's been no debate and discussions, no requests for clarity, just a stand off would be my fear.

 

[Tortoise]

Well we can infer some things - there's been a clear need to take guidance from the judge so they're obviously not unanimous. We know what the judge has said, he will accept a 10:1 if necessary.

What I'm wondering is, if there's more than one person who has sat through this case for 10 months and believes that LL is innocent, they're never going to achieve a verdict because those people are hardly likely to suddenly change their minds after all this time and I wonder where that would leave the situation.

We don't know if they had a need to take guidance. Judges issue majority directions at a time that they think it is appropriate. So it's not obvious that they're not unanimous, the possibilities are wide open.

They could be spending each 4-hour day going through one charge, in which case they wouldn't have completed deliberations yet with 22 charges.

They could have agreed on any number of the charges and be split on others or just one.

They could be split on all the charges.

They could have decided not to cast their individual votes on each charge yet, and are waiting to do that when they have finished discussing all the cases.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I've given up, there will never be a verdict. This jury will sit until the end of time.

There's a Charles Dickens book in there somewhere. The case will become inter-generational and all the descendants and next of kin of those involved will take it on over the years until one day there's not a single penny left in the state coffers to keep paying for it and it will be disbanded.