GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #31

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  • #61
1) If this jury is unable to reach any verdict on all charges, and they do decide to retry the cases, does she just stay imprisoned?

2) If they find her NG of some charges and there is a hung jury on all of the others, do you think they will retry her on the other charges?
1) she can apply for a bail hearing where the judge can decide whether or not she is granted bail ahead of a possible retrial. Until then she would remain in custody
2) I think they will, but the charges might end up being directed NG by the judge before the retrial if the crown can't show that they are more likely to secure a conviction than they were in the first trial.

JMO!
 
  • #62
Some more useless information.
Just been informed by someone who attended court that the chief constable of Cheshire police was there today.
 
  • #63
It's been mentioned before that there will very likely be a lot of evidence which we haven't heard reported in detail but they obviously have. Perhaps the cases which look pretty clearly cut to us are in reality not as well defined as we imagine they are?
I would agree with this if we only had the reporting from the case in chief to go from. There was a massive lull in the middle of trial where reporters put out just a handful of tweets and a 20-minute podcast summarising a whole week's worth of evidence. But since then we've had LL's case in chief, her cross-examination, closing arguments (which really shone a light into corners of the case we hadn't seen before) and then summing up from the judge. All of this was very well covered, virtually minute by minute reporting by multiple professional reporters, and so I would be very surprised if there were anything so significant that had escaped the reporting.

If anything, I think I'm more inclined to think we are at some advantage over the jury by having the case brought into such sharp relief, through the reporting, as it might be in a well-produced documentary, and the jury might be bogged down by a ton of details that necessarily form part of the evidence but don't really help them to see the wood for the trees.

They do however have the advantage over us of seeing and assessing witness credibility first hand.
 
  • #64
I know they are not allowed to conduct their own research but would they be able to listen to the mails podcast for instance ? In their own time I mean.
 
  • #65
Some more useless information.
Just been informed by someone who attended court that the chief constable of Cheshire police was there today.
Any ideas as to why?
 
  • #66
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  • #68
I would agree with this if we only had the reporting from the case in chief to go from. There was a massive lull in the middle of trial where reporters put out just a handful of tweets and a 20-minute podcast summarising a whole week's worth of evidence. But since then we've had LL's case in chief, her cross-examination, closing arguments (which really shone a light into corners of the case we hadn't seen before) and then summing up from the judge. All of this was very well covered, virtually minute by minute reporting by multiple professional reporters, and so I would be very surprised if there were anything so significant that had escaped the reporting.

If anything, I think I'm more inclined to think we are at some advantage over the jury by having the case brought into such sharp relief, through the reporting, as it might be in a well-produced documentary, and the jury might be bogged down by a ton of details that necessarily form part of the evidence but don't really help them to see the wood for the trees.

They do however have the advantage over us of seeing and assessing witness credibility first hand.
Are the jury allowed online but just not allowed to read about the trial?
I would probs be worried to even do that encase it appeared whilst reading other things. Same with anyone in my house encase they got it up lol
I wonder whether they could google medical or even law type questions to get a better understanding but just nowt to do with this trial?
Apologies if this has already been said.
 
  • #69
O/T but Currently watching “the twelve” (Australian drama about a jury) and it’s very interesting to see behind the scenes (appreciate it’s very much dramatised) of the jury through a trial. The fallings out between them (and fallings into bed ) and how they bring their own personal experiences into the jury room!
 
  • #70
Also O/T(ish), but how does Lucy's "gang of four" conspiracy theory compare to these infamous defence cases?

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  • #71
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Is today the day ?

Much love to Dr Choc / Milky Bar Kid
 
  • #72
I don't think anyone in the thread has relevant legal qualifications.

This is the wording of a direction which is sometimes given to jurors if they get stuck with their deliberations -

The Watson direction

Each of you has taken an oath to return a true verdict according to the evidence. No one must be false to that oath, but you have a duty not only as individuals but collectively. That is the strength of the jury system. Each of you takes into the jury box with you your individual experience and wisdom. Your task is to pool that experience and wisdom. You do that by giving your views and listening to the views of others. There must necessarily be discussion, argument and give and take within the scope of your oath. That is the way in which agreement is reached. If, unhappily, [10 of] you cannot reach agreement you must say so.”


Essentially they have an individual and a collective duty to not only give their views but discuss/listen to the views of the others. Their idea of 'reasonable' might turn out to be a misunderstanding of the standard they must uphold, it might change after listening to/discussing with the others, and it doesn't mean any alternative scenario which they can think up which isn't the defence case put forward. For instance, a reasonable doubt wouldn't be that she did anything alleged accidentally.

I have a law degree and completed the Legal Practice Course, both of which included criminal law, hence my very unimaginative user name, which I now regret! However, this was a long time and several careers ago, and although I worked as a paralegal for some years, it was never in criminal law. When I first used to read and then subsequently post on here, I knew a lot more than I do now, but I've forgotten a lot, unfortunately.

I loved studying law though and the knowledge I acquired has been useful in so many ways outside work. I totally recommend it!
 
  • #73
New day .. New Thread I am saying no more on the matter :-)
 
  • #74
Good morning all, I haven’t commented on this case since last December(?!) apparently!! But I’ve been lurking this thread again the past week or so. Forcing myself to comment today just to see if I, somehow, can make the verdict happen today for us! Can only try. :p
 
  • #75
Are the jury allowed online but just not allowed to read about the trial?
I would probs be worried to even do that encase it appeared whilst reading other things. Same with anyone in my house encase they got it up lol
I wonder whether they could google medical or even law type questions to get a better understanding but just nowt to do with this trial?
Apologies if this has already been said.
I know they were given a glossary explaining all the medical terms as part of their jury bundle.

I'm not sure whether you mean can they google personal medical queries related to their own/families' health etc., which would be yes. They can't research medical or legal stuff related to the case, they must ask those questions in court if they need further clarification.
 
  • #76
It has been a long 9 months for them, taking in enormous amounts of information on the way. They have notebooks of course and i pads with all the 'slates' on to refer to but it is not any easy task. I totally agree with the above and how all 11 must convinced of BARD. I have attended this case 20+ times, it is hard going for everyone, especially the jury.
.

Wow, you were able to attend the trial 20+ times?! Any observations you might like to share? ( no pressure though, of course)
 
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  • #77
  • #78
The Lucy Letby trial jury has resumed deliberations for its 21st day today (Thursday, August 17).

The jury is now deliberating from the earlier time of 10am, the court having previously sat from 10.30am-4pm.

 
  • #79
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