UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

[Dotta]

"Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans wants all 257 cases Lucy Letby kept details on to be fully investigated."​

Medical expert warns Lucy Letby may have tried to harm up to 257 babies | UK | News | Express.co.uk

www-express-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Jw192]

Haha, you asked for it!

For the first verdicts for babies F & L at 2pm on 8th Aug - that would be 59h 40m - the winner was

58h - @Jw192 (backed by @Sarahlou and @Tortoise )


For the second group of verdicts for babies C, I, M, N, O & P, at 1pm on 11th Aug - that would be 69h 55m - the winner was

70h - @bobbymkii (backed by @Dotta and @marynnu )


For the third group of verdicts for babies A, B, D, E & G at 2pm on 16th Aug - that would be 80h 35m - the winner was

80h - @V347 (backed by @crystalline and @Jw192 )



And V347 won the overall deliberations predictions because no one else was left in the running after 15th Aug.

Commiserations go to

75h - @CS2C (backed by @Kittybunny , @DianaWW , @Diddly1 and @Parker Knoll )

Woooooo I won first verdicts!!!

 

[Kemug]

I was never in the running, however won't some of you gracious winners please please send me a piece of cake? (Chocolate preferred please - no, make that Tres Leches!)

 

[Parker Knoll]

Access Restricted

Interesting article.

 

[iamshadow21]

Access Restricted

Interesting article.

It leaves me wondering just how different things could have been, were she in charge at COCH a few years earlier, in 2015. How many babies would still be alive? How many uninjured?

MOO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Access Restricted

Interesting article.

Does that article point out the deliberate misinformation that the management made when reporting the deaths to the external review agencies? its exceptionally shocking because it shows at least some awareness of how unusual the situation is. I don’t see a problem from a management perspective in following the protocol, it neednt reflect badly on the staff and anyone in particular.

 

[cottonweaver]

As we've discussed recently, HR processes will be under the spotlight in the CoC Letby Inquiry ( Wonder how Kathryn B felt when she saw her own name doodled all over that LL post-it note)

Today's news - a nurse 'whistle-blower' alleges she was pressurised & then got sucked into HR processes on 'bullying'




'A senior nurse said she was targeted by NHS managers after she raised concerns about a colleague that she alleged had implications for patient safety....
The Christie cancer hospital in Manchester.
"I didn't realise [speaking out] would cause such distress and such detriment to my life," she told BBC Newsnight.

'Ms Wight, who now works at a different NHS site, said she was constantly asked by the trust what she hoped to gain by raising concerns.
She said she was asked to go into mediation with her colleague, who reported her for alleged bullying.
"I was under investigation for four months for supposedly bullying somebody when actually all I was trying to do was improve patient care," she said.
Ms Wight said that investigation concluded that she had not bullied her colleague
Ms Wight is now suing The Christie for constructive dismissal.'

The Christie: NHS bosses targeted me for raising concerns, nurse says

She says she repeatedly asked bosses to examine patient safety concerns at Manchester's The Christie.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[cottonweaver]

It leaves me wondering just how different things could have been, were she in charge at COCH a few years earlier, in 2015. How many babies would still be alive? How many uninjured?

MOO

Agree

shocking but not surprising contents in that article:

Even after Letby’s arrest – just a few weeks before Gilby assumed her new role – she says she was shocked to find a “very fixed view that the police have got this wrong”.
“I couldn’t actually identify anybody whose concern was that murders had taken place in the neonatal unit,” Gilby, 60, recalls. “There was a belief that there would be no charges and that the focus of our energies should be on what were we going to do about these paediatricians.”

what former CEO Tony Chambers told Gilby in 2020 when she phoned him to let him know that LL had been charged
'“He was horrified, but not in the way that I expected.… he expressed concern about Lucy,” she says. “He said, ‘I’m just worried about a wrongful conviction’.”

CoC Trust. The Brains Trust? No

 

[Sweeper2000]

Agree

shocking but not surprising contents in that article:

Even after Letby’s arrest – just a few weeks before Gilby assumed her new role – she says she was shocked to find a “very fixed view that the police have got this wrong”.
“I couldn’t actually identify anybody whose concern was that murders had taken place in the neonatal unit,” Gilby, 60, recalls. “There was a belief that there would be no charges and that the focus of our energies should be on what were we going to do about these paediatricians.”

what former CEO Tony Chambers told Gilby in 2020 when she phoned him to let him know that LL had been charged
'“He was horrified, but not in the way that I expected.… he expressed concern about Lucy,” she says. “He said, ‘I’m just worried about a wrongful conviction’.”

CoC Trust. The Brains Trust? No

I was going to ask if anyone on the management had had experience of anything like it before but that was a no brainer. These are standalone events that should ring alarms with anyone who has clinical experience and good knowledge of a maternity ward.

 

[Dotta]

Debate about CCTV
Again

DOMINIC LAWSON: With CCTV would Lucy Letby have killed those babies?

DOMINIC LAWSON: Film of her injecting them before their agonised deaths would have compelled even her friends to recognise what Letby herself admitted in her notes: 'I did this.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[cottonweaver]

I was going to ask if anyone on the management had had experience of anything like it before but that was a no brainer. These are standalone events that should ring alarms with anyone who has clinical experience and good knowledge of a maternity ward.

I recall looking up the chairman of the board.

Whilst I have now forgotten his name, he was the boss of NHS Executive in the 90s..............back when the Bev Allitt Inquiry was taking place.
( Most of the other directors... Harvey, Chambers etc, weren't they in their 50s? If that's correct, they'd all have known Shipman, Allitt, Norris, Green, Chinua cases/trials running through 1990s - 2015. Many of those were huge scandals here in UK )

 

[Parker Knoll]

Oh they totally would have known about all of them.
Sir Duncan Nichol was Chief executive of NHS England at the time of Allitt, and was also the Chairman of the Countess during Letbys rampage.
You literally couldn’t make this up.

 

[Marantz4250b]

"Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans wants all 257 cases Lucy Letby kept details on to be fully investigated."​

Medical expert warns Lucy Letby may have tried to harm up to 257 babies | UK | News | Express.co.uk

www-express-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

That's what the police are actually doing.

Also, that statement is probably wrong as ot was 257 handover sheets she had which, as far as I am aware, would have multiple names on each.

 

[Marantz4250b]

what former CEO Tony Chambers told Gilby in 2020 when she phoned him to let him know that LL had been charged
'“He was horrified, but not in the way that I expected.… he expressed concern about Lucy,” she says. “He said, ‘I’m just worried about a wrongful conviction’.”

CoC Trust. The Brains Trust? No

As I've alluded to before - I'm convinced that this Chambers guy is going to be a lot more significant than we realise. I think it'll turn out that he and Lucy were much more familiar with one another than we realise right now!

 

[cottonweaver]

As I've alluded to before - I'm convinced that this Chambers guy is going to be a lot more significant than we realise. I think it'll turn out that he and Lucy were a much more familiar with one another than we realise right now!

Yeah, people going to put different interpretations on his actions ( and the similar ones from other exec directors like Harvey & senior managers like Alison Kelly)

It really would be a bombshell if Inquiry found that LL's relationship w TC was anything more than platonic.

PS That comment I highlighted reminded me - in general terms - of the kind of comment you'd find on one of those hapless FreeLL type platforms. *
Why would you, in 2020 after a 3 yr LE investigation & CPS charging but before a trial has even started be using a phrase like ' wrongful conviction' ( To me it's sort of thing somebody might say during a jury's deliberations after hearing the evidence, strength/weakness of a case.)

* Basically, was TC was 'putting the cart before the horse' because he thought it sounded clever?

 

[Marantz4250b]

It really would be a bombshell if Inquiry found that LL's relationship w TC was anything more than platonic.

It would on the one hand but, on the other, I think that lots of people - me included - wouldn't be the last surprised.

It seems highly 'sus' to me that the Chief Exec just happens to personally know a lowly band 5 nurse among the hundreds of nurses who work there. Not only that but he is expressing rather forthright 'concerns' that she may be wrongly convicted of serious crimes!

And we do know that he knew her personally because the evidence of her texts to the Milky Bar Kid demonstrates that he phoned her.

 

[cottonweaver]

It would on the one hand but, on the other, I think that lots of people - me included - wouldn't be the last surprised.

It seems highly 'sus' to me that the Chief Exec just happens to personally know a lowly band 5 nurse among the hundreds of nurses who work there. Not only that but he is expressing rather forthright 'concerns' that she may be wrongly convicted of serious crimes!

And we do know that he knew her personally because the evidence of her texts to the Milky Bar Kid demonstrates that he phoned her.

If true and proved, wonder if he'd face greater, personal legal jeopardy? ( families not just suing the trust itself)

 

[Marantz4250b]

If true and proved, wonder if he'd face greater, personal legal jeopardy? ( families not just suing the trust itself)

Well, if he did have any sort of inappropriate relationship with her (and I'm not saying he did) then I can't see how he'd be personally liable for anything unless what he was doing materially contributed towards the damage she caused. That, I think is highly unlikely.

 

[cottonweaver]

Well, if he did have any sort of inappropriate relationship with her (and I'm not saying he did) then I can't see how he'd be personally liable for anything unless what he was doing materially contributed towards the damage she caused. That, I think is highly unlikely.

sorry I should have been clearer:

if true and proved (that it was a factor in the delay)...wonder if he'd face greater, personal legal jeopardy? ( Because families may have grounds to sue him personally but couldn't see any potential for anything other than civil litigation)

Anyway, doesn't really matter, I was just ' spitballin' & personally would be very shocked to find out they had been having an affair.

 

[notsure]

We're all delighted that Letby has been caught for her crimes.

But let's not delude ourselves - she's just one of many criminals at large in our hospitals.

Nurses/doctors harming patients; doctors/surgeons abusing nurses in operating theatres and elsewhere.

It's a a nightmare environment.