UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[marynnu]

They started fundraising in 2013 to build a new more appropriate and safe building- they wouldn’t have even considered spending money on this if it was even semi suitable for purpose

Council blocks Countess of Chester Hospital baby unit plans - BBC News

The Countess of Chester Hospital's plans for a new neonatal unit are refused planning permission.

www.bbc.co.uk

What does a building being fit for purpose got to do with anything? Wards get moved, hospitals repaired/rebuilt all the time.

 

[JosieJo]

It started off as they were all paid, then they were just stupid/naive so spoke out. Now they have an axe to grind - which is it? You are not actually considering their points that may well be valid and open to discussion, rather you are coming up with nonsensical arguments as to why they should be disregarded and not allowed for discussion.

Problem is people are fed up with reading people's opinions that are not based on fact. He states very early on the operation logs need to be seen ..that's where taking anything he says as relevant ends. He has no idea how the operation was conducted...I for one are sick of reading articles made to look relevant by someone's previous job role or letters after their name that Joe public are taking as gospel when in fact they can't comment with any credence because they don't have the facts to make a reliable opinion...McDonalds PR campaign has a lot to answer for and not in a good way. The time for discussion is when and if the COA receives the application and actually finds something worth discussing in court

 

[Marantz4250b]

The time for discussion is when and if the COA receives the application and actually finds something worth discussing in court

Which, imo will be never!

I'm basing that on what has already been said by her legal team; the CCRC can only refer a case to the CoA if it has new and compelling evidence which may have swayed a jury if it was known about, or could reasonably have been known about, at the time of the trial.

There is no "new" evidence, let alone new and compelling evidence. Everything which has been suggested so far is old evidence which was either discussed and dismissed at trial or wasn't used due to the decisions made by LL on the advice of her defence.

The suggestion that she is innocent is pure fantasy, promulgated by a few deeply strange individuals and a grifting Barrister who seems obsessed with no hope cases.

 

[Sweeper2000]

This article is interesting. It says concerns raised by 28 families could add fuel to her escape attempt. Is paywall

Access Restricted

Access Restricted

Eta. Sorry I don't know why it says access restricted. It's an article in the telegraph released today about Dr bohin.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I have to say that the behavior of MM and her team is disgusting, quite honestly.

If they have something to submit to the CCRC then they should just do it. It is of no importance to anyone else.

Honestly, this whole "...appeal by media..." is getting rather seedy now. This is NOT the way things are done here. MMs regulating body should be looking into his conduct, imo.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Here is the full article sweep.
It’s another Knapton word salad.

A doctor who gave evidence at the Lucy Letby trial will be named in a submission to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) after complaints about her were raised by 28 families.
Dr Sandie Bohin, the consultant paediatrician, told the trial that babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital had been deliberately harmed.
Letby was found guilty of the murders of seven infants and the attempted murders of seven others between 2015 and 2016, and jailed for 15 whole life terms.
If new charges are brought against the former nurse, Dr Bohin will probably take the stand again.
However, The Telegraph understands that a submission to the CCRC will question her credibility as an expert witness.
The families of young patients on Guernsey have claimed that she obstructed a referral, failed to listen to parental concerns and reported parents to social services or school attendance officers if they questioned her judgment.

Mark McDonald, Letby’s barrister, who has submitted a file to the CCRC, in which dozens of experts question her convictions, said he planned to add complaints against Dr Bohin as new grounds for appeal.

Complaints against Dr Bohin, shown at the Letby trial, could help secure an appeal Credit: PA
Mr McDonald said: “Dr Bohin’s importance cannot be underestimated. She was instrumental to the prosecution case at Lucy’s trial and she is critical to the ongoing police inquiry.”
In one instance, it was alleged that Dr Bohin cancelled the surgery of a child with a life-threatening cardiac defect because she believed her symptoms were caused by a respiratory virus.
The child was later found to have a vascular ring – where the windpipe and oesophagus are squeezed – and needed extensive surgery, which could increase her risk of cancer and autoimmune diseases.
An investigation by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health found that Dr Bohin and her team should have investigated the symptoms further. An initial General Medical Council (GMC) inquiry said: “The child’s care has clearly not been ideal.”

However, the college concluded that it was “unlikely” the delay caused physical harm, and the GMC found that while Dr Bohin should have assessed the baby “more fully in a timely manner”, it probably had not led to long-term harm.

‘Recollection’s may vary’​

Responding to the complaints, Dr Bohin told The Telegraph: “To quote the late Queen, ‘people’s recollection of events vary’ and that is certainly the case here. I am not a cardiologist and therefore would never make a diagnosis of a vascular ring in any child.”
The child’s family disputed that the delay did not cause harm and joined eight other families in submitting a group complaint to the GMC about Dr Bohin in June 2024.
One family, whose daughter had anorexia, clashed with Dr Bohin after she allegedly instructed the girl to consume a set number of calories each day, despite a dietician warning that this could trigger refeeding syndrome – a potentially fatal condition.
Dr Bohin said: “In Guernsey, young people with anorexia are jointly managed by the dietetic service and the children’s mental health service. They alone decide the management of these patients, including the calorie intake.”

The original GMC complaint was rejected but the families are appealing this, claiming an investigation is “of urgent public interest” because of the Letby case.

The 11 pieces of evidence that Letby’s lawyers passed to the Criminal Cases Review Commission​

1. Nineteen detailed reports prepared by 16 experts from seven different countries which find no evidence of harmful acts committed by Lucy Letby and highlight a litany of errors by the treating clinicians.
2. Two reports from the UK’s leading statisticians refuting the premise of the prosecution case of an unexplained spike in deaths and a coincidence of Letby being present when babies are said to have died or collapsed.
3. Three reports, written by nine internationally renowned experts, on the issue of insulin, rejecting the hypothesis that exogenous insulin was given to any baby by Letby.
4. The failure of the prosecution to disclose to the defence that the police had instructed an expert, met with the expert, taken guidance and advice from the expert and then not proceeded on that advice. This arguably led to the jury being misled on the central thesis of the prosecution case, that there had been a spike in deaths and the staff rota showed Letby being on duty for each incident.
5. The failure of the prosecution to disclose a medical statement from a treating clinician which could have had a bearing on the defence approach at trial.
6. Evidence from numerous interviews, podcasts and articles from (expert witness) Dr Dewi Evans since the trial, where he arguably undermines his independence as an expert witness.
7. The failure to disclose a new report drafted by Dr Evans twelve months after Letby was convicted of murder. This report addresses the cause of death of one of the babies for which Letby was convicted of murder.
8. The failure of the prosecution to adduce before the jury the report from the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH) which, following a full review of the neonatal unit, raised several issues concerning suboptimal care.
9. The failure of the prosecution to disclose to the defence the involvement of a senior coroner’s officer into the investigation of Letby and the results of her investigation.
10. The failure of the prosecution to disclose that the coroner investigating the death of one baby (for which Letby has been convicted of murder) did not see important evidence of a hospital procedure which we say ultimately may have led to the child’s death.
11. The change of position by Dr Evans on a key element of the case against Letby. This, we say, not only may have misled the jury but also the Court of Appeal.

Expand
A spokesman for the families said: “We believe that these behaviour patterns are significant in relation to Dr Bohin’s role as a prosecution expert witness in the Lucy Letby trial and as the primary expert witness in the ongoing case against Ms Letby.”
Families have also claimed they were referred to social services if they questioned a diagnosis by Dr Bohin.
In 2018, one family said their child had developed ME after contracting suspected glandular fever and was recommended “graded exercise”, a treatment that is no longer recommended by the NHS. After the child’s mother disagreed about the course of action, she was referred to social services.
In another instance, a Guernsey doctor misdiagnosed a child suffering from hypopituitarism, a life-threatening condition that required her to take daily doses of steroids, leaving her seriously ill for three years and unable to attend school.

‘Unequivocal apology’​

When the family complained about the misdiagnosis, Dr Bohin reported the youngster to the school attendance officer, claiming she may have been missing without medical justification.

The child’s GP told an investigation that she believed safeguarding had been triggered as a response to the parents making a complaint. After the parents submitted a further complaint, Dr Bohin signed a letter in February 2016 offering an “unequivocal apology” to the family, acknowledging their distress.
Guernsey’s Data Protection Commissioner later ruled that Dr Bohin’s disclosure to the school attendance service had been “neither fair nor lawful”.
In 2021, following complaints from four families that Dr Bohin had referred them to social services after they sought second opinions and treatments, Guernsey’s medical director commissioned healthcare consultancy SEW to look into the matter.
RECOMMENDED
Letby inquiry report won't be published until 'after Easter'
Read more

SEW did not find that Dr Bohin misused the safeguarding process, and had acted in the best interests of the children, but it did find “potential bias” and a “fundamental breakdown in trust”. It also warned that she had engaged in “fixed thinking”.
Responding to the complaints, Dr Bohin added: “There is no evidence to back up the claim that I made inappropriate referrals to social services. This was fully investigated by SEW and found not to be the case.

“The Police, the CPS [Crown Prosecution Service] and Counsel were all aware of the continuing issue with four families from Guernsey. I have no idea who the other five families are who joined this group in their referral to the GMC.”
Dr Bohin is the second prosecution expert called into question since Letby’s conviction, after the expertise of Dr Dewi Evans was scrutinised by neonatologists.

​

 

[Sweeper2000]

Yeh I don't think that's the right angle. If Dr

Here is the full article sweep.
It’s another Knapton word salad.

A doctor who gave evidence at the Lucy Letby trial will be named in a submission to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) after complaints about her were raised by 28 families.
Dr Sandie Bohin, the consultant paediatrician, told the trial that babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital had been deliberately harmed.
Letby was found guilty of the murders of seven infants and the attempted murders of seven others between 2015 and 2016, and jailed for 15 whole life terms.
If new charges are brought against the former nurse, Dr Bohin will probably take the stand again.
However, The Telegraph understands that a submission to the CCRC will question her credibility as an expert witness.
The families of young patients on Guernsey have claimed that she obstructed a referral, failed to listen to parental concerns and reported parents to social services or school attendance officers if they questioned her judgment.

Mark McDonald, Letby’s barrister, who has submitted a file to the CCRC, in which dozens of experts question her convictions, said he planned to add complaints against Dr Bohin as new grounds for appeal.

Complaints against Dr Bohin, shown at the Letby trial, could help secure an appeal Credit: PA
Mr McDonald said: “Dr Bohin’s importance cannot be underestimated. She was instrumental to the prosecution case at Lucy’s trial and she is critical to the ongoing police inquiry.”
In one instance, it was alleged that Dr Bohin cancelled the surgery of a child with a life-threatening cardiac defect because she believed her symptoms were caused by a respiratory virus.
The child was later found to have a vascular ring – where the windpipe and oesophagus are squeezed – and needed extensive surgery, which could increase her risk of cancer and autoimmune diseases.
An investigation by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health found that Dr Bohin and her team should have investigated the symptoms further. An initial General Medical Council (GMC) inquiry said: “The child’s care has clearly not been ideal.”

However, the college concluded that it was “unlikely” the delay caused physical harm, and the GMC found that while Dr Bohin should have assessed the baby “more fully in a timely manner”, it probably had not led to long-term harm.

‘Recollection’s may vary’​

Responding to the complaints, Dr Bohin told The Telegraph: “To quote the late Queen, ‘people’s recollection of events vary’ and that is certainly the case here. I am not a cardiologist and therefore would never make a diagnosis of a vascular ring in any child.”
The child’s family disputed that the delay did not cause harm and joined eight other families in submitting a group complaint to the GMC about Dr Bohin in June 2024.
One family, whose daughter had anorexia, clashed with Dr Bohin after she allegedly instructed the girl to consume a set number of calories each day, despite a dietician warning that this could trigger refeeding syndrome – a potentially fatal condition.
Dr Bohin said: “In Guernsey, young people with anorexia are jointly managed by the dietetic service and the children’s mental health service. They alone decide the management of these patients, including the calorie intake.”

The original GMC complaint was rejected but the families are appealing this, claiming an investigation is “of urgent public interest” because of the Letby case.

The 11 pieces of evidence that Letby’s lawyers passed to the Criminal Cases Review Commission​

1. Nineteen detailed reports prepared by 16 experts from seven different countries which find no evidence of harmful acts committed by Lucy Letby and highlight a litany of errors by the treating clinicians.
2. Two reports from the UK’s leading statisticians refuting the premise of the prosecution case of an unexplained spike in deaths and a coincidence of Letby being present when babies are said to have died or collapsed.
3. Three reports, written by nine internationally renowned experts, on the issue of insulin, rejecting the hypothesis that exogenous insulin was given to any baby by Letby.
4. The failure of the prosecution to disclose to the defence that the police had instructed an expert, met with the expert, taken guidance and advice from the expert and then not proceeded on that advice. This arguably led to the jury being misled on the central thesis of the prosecution case, that there had been a spike in deaths and the staff rota showed Letby being on duty for each incident.
5. The failure of the prosecution to disclose a medical statement from a treating clinician which could have had a bearing on the defence approach at trial.
6. Evidence from numerous interviews, podcasts and articles from (expert witness) Dr Dewi Evans since the trial, where he arguably undermines his independence as an expert witness.
7. The failure to disclose a new report drafted by Dr Evans twelve months after Letby was convicted of murder. This report addresses the cause of death of one of the babies for which Letby was convicted of murder.
8. The failure of the prosecution to adduce before the jury the report from the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH) which, following a full review of the neonatal unit, raised several issues concerning suboptimal care.
9. The failure of the prosecution to disclose to the defence the involvement of a senior coroner’s officer into the investigation of Letby and the results of her investigation.
10. The failure of the prosecution to disclose that the coroner investigating the death of one baby (for which Letby has been convicted of murder) did not see important evidence of a hospital procedure which we say ultimately may have led to the child’s death.
11. The change of position by Dr Evans on a key element of the case against Letby. This, we say, not only may have misled the jury but also the Court of Appeal.

Expand
A spokesman for the families said: “We believe that these behaviour patterns are significant in relation to Dr Bohin’s role as a prosecution expert witness in the Lucy Letby trial and as the primary expert witness in the ongoing case against Ms Letby.”
Families have also claimed they were referred to social services if they questioned a diagnosis by Dr Bohin.
In 2018, one family said their child had developed ME after contracting suspected glandular fever and was recommended “graded exercise”, a treatment that is no longer recommended by the NHS. After the child’s mother disagreed about the course of action, she was referred to social services.
In another instance, a Guernsey doctor misdiagnosed a child suffering from hypopituitarism, a life-threatening condition that required her to take daily doses of steroids, leaving her seriously ill for three years and unable to attend school.

‘Unequivocal apology’​

When the family complained about the misdiagnosis, Dr Bohin reported the youngster to the school attendance officer, claiming she may have been missing without medical justification.

The child’s GP told an investigation that she believed safeguarding had been triggered as a response to the parents making a complaint. After the parents submitted a further complaint, Dr Bohin signed a letter in February 2016 offering an “unequivocal apology” to the family, acknowledging their distress.
Guernsey’s Data Protection Commissioner later ruled that Dr Bohin’s disclosure to the school attendance service had been “neither fair nor lawful”.
In 2021, following complaints from four families that Dr Bohin had referred them to social services after they sought second opinions and treatments, Guernsey’s medical director commissioned healthcare consultancy SEW to look into the matter.
RECOMMENDED
Letby inquiry report won't be published until 'after Easter'
Read more
SEW did not find that Dr Bohin misused the safeguarding process, and had acted in the best interests of the children, but it did find “potential bias” and a “fundamental breakdown in trust”. It also warned that she had engaged in “fixed thinking”.
Responding to the complaints, Dr Bohin added: “There is no evidence to back up the claim that I made inappropriate referrals to social services. This was fully investigated by SEW and found not to be the case.

“The Police, the CPS [Crown Prosecution Service] and Counsel were all aware of the continuing issue with four families from Guernsey. I have no idea who the other five families are who joined this group in their referral to the GMC.”
Dr Bohin is the second prosecution expert called into question since Letby’s conviction, after the expertise of Dr Dewi Evans was scrutinised by neonatologists.

​

Thankyou PK.

Sounds kinda weak to me especially if that's the worst of it. More like grey areas or kind of permissable mistakes. I did think it was kind of irrelevant as well as the nursing authorities would have raised issue with her practice before as well.

 

[Baileyboo]

Looks like Mark Mcdonald has moved on from belittling Dr Evans to Dr Bohin. Its likely that all paediatricians will have complaints made against them. They produce medical evidence for child protection cases.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Looks like Mark Mcdonald has moved on from belittling Dr Evans to Dr Bohin. Its likely that all paediatricians will have complaints made against them. They produce medical evidence for child protection cases.

We now have am explanation fir why he went to Guernsey though. Been the plan for a while I don't doubt. Next on the list is Dr marnerides and Prof arthurs etc

 

[Tortoise]

Looks like Mark Mcdonald has moved on from belittling Dr Evans to Dr Bohin. Its likely that all paediatricians will have complaints made against them. They produce medical evidence for child protection cases.

He had the gall to say (at the Bond Solon expert witness conference held on 7th November) that experts willing to act for the defence were in short supply because of negative media attention and the way in which they faced criticism in court, all while he is running his own smear campaign in the press.

In depth: 10 key takeaways from this year’s Bond Solon Expert Witness Survey

Majority support for some form of regulation, the use of AI and the risk of acting in high-profile cases are among the key takeaways from this year's Bond Solon Expert Witness Survey.

www.lawgazette.co.uk

I watched it on youtube, but they've since made the video private.

 

[Marantz4250b]

We now have am explanation fir why he went to Guernsey though. Been the plan for a while I don't doubt. Next on the list is Dr marnerides and Prof arthurs etc

One of the articles mentioned that he goes to Guernsey regularly for family or somesuch. I'm very skeptical of anything that comes from him, tbh.

 

[Marantz4250b]

He had the gall to say (at the Bond Solon expert witness conference held on 7th November) that experts willing to act for the defence were in short supply because of negative media attention and the way in which they faced criticism in court, all while he is running his own smear campaign in the press.

In depth: 10 key takeaways from this year’s Bond Solon Expert Witness Survey

Majority support for some form of regulation, the use of AI and the risk of acting in high-profile cases are among the key takeaways from this year's Bond Solon Expert Witness Survey.

www.lawgazette.co.uk

I watched it on youtube, but they've since made the video private.

I predict that many, many of his own "expert panel" will suddenly be in short supply should they ever be needed to front-up before an appeal court.

Purely my own opinion, obvs.

 

[Tortoise]

I predict that many, many of his own "expert panel" will suddenly be in short supply should they ever be needed to front-up before an appeal court.

Purely my own opinion, obvs.

He also said experts should not be speaking in the media, because it would be detrimental to future court proceedings! This, after hosting his own media conferences, and several of them appearing in documentaries.

Setting himself up for the inevitable failure of his application, IMO.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Yip as expected. This item news piece gives more details on Dr bohin and these "complaints". Apparently her local :medical specialist group" give her their full backing and in four years 8 complaints have been raised, none of which have been upheld and none involved safeguarding issues. The other "complaints" were not made officially. That all sounds like hot air to me and at this point its believable. The first four minutes of this news piece refers to letby.

 

[joltz]

We now have am explanation fir why he went to Guernsey though. Been the plan for a while I don't doubt. Next on the list is Dr marnerides and Prof arthurs etc

No he has family there he said he visits often, definitely just a huge coincidence to hold a presser where Dr Bohin works and is based! He doesn't lie

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I've never seen an article before that has to give an excuse as to why someone was in Guernsey in the headline. LOL.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1988960833758720027

 

[Sweeper2000]

Yip as expected. This item news piece gives more details on Dr bohin and these "complaints". Apparently her local :medical specialist group" give her their full backing and in four years 8 complaints have been raised, none of which have been upheld and none involved safeguarding issues. The other "complaints" were not made officially. That all sounds like hot air to me and at this point its believable. The first four minutes of this news piece refers to letby.

Well I hope the mods allow that as that's more or less exactly what that piece said. Now itv has taken the vid down. It's also very relevant to the thread and timeline as Info has eventually come through.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Didn't bother reading it.

Access Restricted

 

[marynnu]

I apologise if this has been discussed before! The issue of the mother's phone calls & the timeline for Baby E has cropped up again, on YouTube this time. The basic argument is that phone records do not take account of BST. Do you folks have any thoughts on this? My argument is that the police would obviously be completely aware of this if it is the case.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I apologise if this has been discussed before! The issue of the mother's phone calls & the timeline for Baby E has cropped up again, on YouTube this time. The basic argument is that phone records do not take account of BST. Do you folks have any thoughts on this? My argument is that the police would obviously be completely aware of this if it is the case.

No doubts at all. 99.9% certain such a basic error would not be made and 99.9% certain Mr myers would have made that connection. Can't exactly remember the details but the scheduled feed was at 9 pm but wasn't the next call at 11 pm? So wouldn't tally up anyway.