UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[Parker Knoll]

I think we are incredibly fair to be honest.
Questions have always been answered factually without hysteria many many times for multiple posters.
The trial was textbook and the conviction safe.
She’s a murderer … there isn’t really much to add.

 

[katydid23]

I have sadly almost given up on this forum as to the usual quality of conversation we have on web sleuths - as the saying goes “you can’t argue with stupid”. I don’t think any one person who is posting is stupid, but the posts lack any substance or even any information to discuss and contradict and are merely accusations of idiocy and assumptions that belittle other posters.

Over and over again people post and share something and people just shut others down, not with a reasoned argument, but with condescending remarks that have no content behind them, far more suited to social media pages.

The threads on this site usually involve a lot more discussion, debate and sharing of alternative viewpoints, and if you had no valid alternative opinion you were of the ability to just not respond, but thanks to a few- everyone has pretty much abandoned ship.

After pointing to all of these other issues, you overlooked a specific question about the following issue:
"Your post implies that the 'you need to keep this to yourself...' message was part of the consultant discussion. It was not. It was a message from Dr. A/U to Letby. Do you realise that?"

So I think the post you are replying to was asking specifically about you not replying to this^^^^ question. You replied by giving a litany of general complaints about this forum, but passed up the chance to answer the specific question that was asked.

 

[joltz]

I have sadly almost given up on this forum as to the usual quality of conversation we have on web sleuths - as the saying goes “you can’t argue with stupid”. I don’t think any one person who is posting is stupid, but the posts lack any substance or even any information to discuss and contradict and are merely accusations of idiocy and assumptions that belittle other posters.

Over and over again people post and share something and people just shut others down, not with a reasoned argument, but with condescending remarks that have no content behind them, far more suited to social media pages.

The threads on this site usually involve a lot more discussion, debate and sharing of alternative viewpoints, and if you had no valid alternative opinion you were of the ability to just not respond, but thanks to a few- everyone has pretty much abandoned ship.

You seem to have no self awareness. I think it's you that is the problem. It's a common trait of people who seem to refuse to accept any culpability of Letby. I find it extremely odd how someone can apparently follow the trial and the ins and outs of the evidence yet only criticise the drs, hospital, experts, police, cps, basically anyone apart from Lucy Letby herself.
You are operating as an apologist for the convicted baby murderer, so I'm not sure what type of response you would be expecting. Imo you have offered nothing of note or substance. You can't argue with stupid, as you say. Pot, kettle, black.

 

[Anxala]

I think we are incredibly fair to be honest.
Questions have always been answered factually without hysteria many many times for multiple posters.
The trial was textbook and the conviction safe.
She’s a murderer … there isn’t really much to add.

^ This, a million billion times.

If there was a Nobel Prize for 'Extraordinary Patience under Pressure', there are a number of contenders on here whose names I'd be putting forward.

You know who you are.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I wont lie i think ruth mostly likes to prompt debate. most of her posts seem that way inclined although the degree of contentiousness prompted hasn't quite hit any level needed for me or seemingly others. if the intention is simply to raise a point the language used would not imply a open minded and neutral standpoint on such matters. not as far as i have seen though. ruth has also stated she doesnt really have an opinion as to the guilt or innocence of the ex nurse either although i find that difficult to believe.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I wont lie i think ruth mostly likes to prompt debate. most of her posts seem that way inclined although the degree of contentiousness prompted hasn't quite hit any level needed for me or seemingly others. if the intention is simply to raise a point the language used would not imply a open minded and neutral standpoint on such matters. not as far as i have seen though. ruth has also stated she doesnt really have an opinion as to the guilt or innocence of the ex nurse either although i find that difficult to believe.

No one who followed the trial could genuinely be bereft of an opinion on the matter. You either believe that she's guilty and her convictions are safe (the reality), or you think she's been fitted up and has been incarcerated unjustly (the fantasy).

Everyone who uses a variant of "I genuinely have no opinion, I just want to see justice done" isn't being honest, imo. They use that line as a means to hide the fact that they subscibe to the fantasy without actually having to say it. That way they can claim that they never truly subscribed to the while "Lucy Letby is innocent ridiculousness" when support for her evaporates.

Justice HAS been done. Its been by one of the oldest and most respected judicial systems in history, one which has been copied in one form or another by half of the world or more.

She's a child murdering serial killer. Her convictions are safe. Mark McDonald is a fool and his "experts" have been fished in.

All MOO, obvs.

 

[JosieJo]

No one who followed the trial could genuinely be bereft of an opinion on the matter. You either believe that she's guilty and her convictions are safe (the reality), or you think she's been fitted up and has been incarcerated unjustly (the fantasy).

Everyone who uses a variant of "I genuinely have no opinion, I just want to see justice done" isn't being honest, imo. They use that line as a means to hide the fact that they subscibe to the fantasy without actually having to say it. That way they can claim that they never truly subscribed to the while "Lucy Letby is innocent ridiculousness" when support for her evaporates.

Justice HAS been done. Its been by one of the oldest and most respected judicial systems in history, one which has been copied in one form or another by half of the world or more.

She's a child murdering serial killer. Her convictions are safe. Mark McDonald is a fool and his "experts" have been fished in.

All MOO, obvs.

This !

 

[marynnu]

I just want to say a big thank you to the people on here who are really knowledgeable and keep our feet on the ground - not naming you as I'm worried about missing someone out! I for one have started getting a bit stressed with all the pro-Letby stuff going on. Not regarding my conviction that she is guilty, but whether she might somehow get released. Thanks again for the injection of reality!

 

[Marantz4250b]

I just want to say a big thank you to the people on here who are really knowledgeable and keep our feet on the ground - not naming you as I'm worried about missing someone out! I for one have started getting a bit stressed with all the pro-Letby stuff going on. Not regarding my conviction that she is guilty, but whether she might somehow get released. Thanks again for the injection of reality!

I think that the chances of her ever being released are vanishingly small, tbh. Barring compassionate release on the grounds of old age or due to a terminal illness, she's never getting out.

If she were convicted only on one or two counts then it's a possibility that an appeal might go somewhere, I guess. As it stands, though, she has multiple convictions for murder and attempted murder with quite differing circumstances and facts across them all. If they were all very similar events (say if they were all insulin poisonings) then I guess if she could point to a particular fact, such as the blood testing, and if enough doubt could be thrown on it that one point may result in a court finding the convictions unsafe.

Unfortunately for her, however, her convictions relate to many different methods of killing and attempting to kill; insulin, over feeding, injecting air, physical assaults, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she's used other methods which might feature in any future prosecutions.

Trying to find a common thread to them all which would result in everything being declared unsafe seems to be about the closest thing to impossible I've ever heard of. I just cannot fathom how that would ever come about.

Her convictions will never be declared unsafe, imo. Even if by some miracle she gets one of them through it still won't change the fact that she's still serving a WLO fo multiple other crimes.

It's literally just come to me that possibly, as a very, very best scenario some years down the line she might be able to convince a court that she was acting under a reduced mental capacity - maybe due to childhood trauma/abuse or whatever nonsense she can dream up (and a couple of regulars on here know my private thoughts on that) - and that she gets her convictions reduced to manslaughter with a life sentence with a minimum term. That still seems exceptionally unlikely, though.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I’m sure plenty of her “ supporters “ would drop off if we had an up to date photo of her like ten tonne tess.
That’s what the majority of her “ truthers “ are made up of.

 

[Marantz4250b]

"She was moaning that she's the fattest she's ever been. She weighs 72 kilos [almost 11 stone 5oz] - she's not fat, but fat for her, you know as she was really, really skinny."

Letby moans 'I'm fattest I've EVER been' after splurging jail cash on junk food

SERIAL child killer Lucy Letby has moaned that she’s getting too fat in prison after spending more than £50 on crisps and sweets. The former nurse devours junk food and Quality Street chocola…

www.thesun.ie

I'm naturally highly sceptical of the truthfulness of articles like this but, holy-kamoley over 11 stone!!! That's the same as me. She was skinny as a rake before so she must be at least a couple of stone more than she was during her trial.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I’m sure plenty of her “ supporters “ would drop off if we had an up to date photo of her like ten tonne tess.
That’s what the majority of her “ truthers “ are made up of.

You posted that a few seconds before my previous post!

 

[Parker Knoll]

She didn’t look fat or thin when I saw her give evidence but because the court was cleared we couldn’t see her walk to the witness stand …. Don’t want to upset her now do we ?!
She’s bound to have put weight on though - wandering around her 8’ x 6’ cell reading her fan mail and playing “ uno “ with her new mates won’t help her waistline.

 

[Marantz4250b]

How tall is she? She appears reasonably tall from her pics - most of them she seems to be taller than everyone else.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I don’t know M … I think she’s about 5’6 ish ?
She didn’t look freakishly tall sat down.

 

[WaneLyrical]

I followed the trial, every single day, as well as following thirlwall. I will admit I didn’t follow the Baby E retrial, since I was already aware of the case. The “omg, she did it” switch never flicked for me. The simple fact is, I was left with too many unanswered questions to make a a reliable judgment. I said it again and again while the evidence was being heard, look for guilt and you will see it, look for innocence and you will see it. If you accept there was a serial killer on the ward, then it is clear and obvious it was Letby. She was there for all of them, and had some odd behaviours.

But there is nothing about Letby, in anything that’s been reported, that makes me think she was capable of this. That is not to say there isn’t anything. She could have course be a Shipman. (Although, we’ll never know what a Shipman with internet access would’ve looked like.)

Because the “omg, she did it” switch never flicked, I do not feel the hatred towards her that I feel for every other person convicted of harming a child. I’m not a true crime fan, my entire life I’ve followed a handful of other cases, typically of parents killing their children. It’s an unfathomable crime, and I feel a sense of duty to the children whose lives have been cut so tragically short, to hear their stories. And whenever I think of them, I take a moment to acknowledge them and their memory. I don’t even bother to remember the names of the scum who killed them, and certainly wouldn’t seek out information about them. I would feel offended to read about others doubting their guilt.

In a way I’d prefer to believe that Letby is an evil baby killer. Because it would be easier than the limbo. If I was on the jury I’d have maintained that it wasn’t beyond reasonable doubt.

For all we know this jury was 50/50 down the middle until it eventually pushed in one direction, helped along with the insulin cases apparently being proven 100%, albeit with ‘Nostradamus levels of prediction’. We only have to watch that Channel 4 show The Jury to see how things shift during deliberations. And this jury had months of headlines everywhere

 

[marynnu]

I don’t know M … I think she’s about 5’6 ish ?
She didn’t look freakishly tall sat down.

Most people look roughly the same when seated!

 

[May72031]

Just found out Letby now has the support of conspiracy crank Gareth Icke (son of conspiracy crank David Icke), who is dropping a "documentary" on his network about Letby being "wrongly blamed for hospital failures", tomorrow.

 

[Baileyboo]

Just found out Letby now has the support of conspiracy crank Gareth Icke (son of conspiracy crank David Icke), who is dropping a "documentary" on his network about Letby being "wrongly blamed for hospital failures", tomorrow.

Icke gave the doula lady, Sarah Hawkins an hour interview. Despite not having medical or legal training she claims that most of the twin's and triplets had twin to twin transfusion syndrome and were denied a level 3 hospital to protect LWH survival figures. There is absolutely no evidence of this although the Sun did an article on it. So it appears that the media love anyone who thinks Letby is innocent while ignoring medical professionals who know she's guilty. These interviews are loosing the facts about what actually caused the baby's to collapse and going down rabbit holes of scape goats, sweet looking nurse image and made up medical issues.

 

[joltz]

I followed the trial, every single day, as well as following thirlwall. I will admit I didn’t follow the Baby E retrial, since I was already aware of the case. The “omg, she did it” switch never flicked for me. The simple fact is, I was left with too many unanswered questions to make a a reliable judgment. I said it again and again while the evidence was being heard, look for guilt and you will see it, look for innocence and you will see it. If you accept there was a serial killer on the ward, then it is clear and obvious it was Letby. She was there for all of them, and had some odd behaviours.

But there is nothing about Letby, in anything that’s been reported, that makes me think she was capable of this. That is not to say there isn’t anything. She could have course be a Shipman. (Although, we’ll never know what a Shipman with internet access would’ve looked like.)

Because the “omg, she did it” switch never flicked, I do not feel the hatred towards her that I feel for every other person convicted of harming a child. I’m not a true crime fan, my entire life I’ve followed a handful of other cases, typically of parents killing their children. It’s an unfathomable crime, and I feel a sense of duty to the children whose lives have been cut so tragically short, to hear their stories. And whenever I think of them, I take a moment to acknowledge them and their memory. I don’t even bother to remember the names of the scum who killed them, and certainly wouldn’t seek out information about them. I would feel offended to read about others doubting their guilt.

In a way I’d prefer to believe that Letby is an evil baby killer. Because it would be easier than the limbo. If I was on the jury I’d have maintained that it wasn’t beyond reasonable doubt.

For all we know this jury was 50/50 down the middle until it eventually pushed in one direction, helped along with the insulin cases apparently being proven 100%, albeit with ‘Nostradamus levels of prediction’. We only have to watch that Channel 4 show The Jury to see how things shift during deliberations. And this jury had months of headlines everywhere

That's fine, the switch never flicked for you, but thats you, and what you think and feel isn't the be all and end all, outside your own head. That's probably more to do with your own way of thinking than anything else.

Personally I don't understand how anyone could get on the whole innocent thing, when you consider the arguments being put forward and where they are coming from. I'm quite open minded and I like to see both sides. But there's so many holes in the arguements for her innocence. None of it makes coherent sense. It's so easy to pull it all apart, every aspect of it.
Even the stuff coming from professionals and apparent experts. It's so easy to scrutinize and doesn't stack up whatsoever.