UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[Parker Knoll]

I think she has been harming babies pretty much since her very first shift in some slight way and she enjoyed the power she had over their lives and by definition their families - that power was her drug of choice as she was so utterly unremarkable in every day life.
It ramps up and it’s no longer a pinch or tube removal but planned attacks using different methods and she can watch this whole macabre show front and centre … yes she’s calm as the doctors say she is in a crisis as she knows exactly why these babies are deteriorating fast and it gives her chance to show off her nursing in front of her new crush Doc Choc.
She’s making firm friends with the senior managers and manipulating the hospital executives getting them all onside, taking full advantage of the fact that the hospital had its own issues with infrastructure and to some degree staff levels, which is another layer for her to hide behind but she can’t fool the doctors as they know these deaths on the ward are unusual and they simply don’t give up - that’s her downfall.
I also think she thought there would be no real way to trace things back to her that couldn’t be explained away ( the interview at the police station shows how manipulative she is when questioned ) and not in a million years did she think the prosecution would almost reconstruct the whole timeline at trial.
I don’t know ( obviously ! ) how she thought this would all play out - did she think she would just keep getting away with it or was she just completely out of control ?
A bit of both possibly.
Just my musings.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Personally, I'm leaning towards her being completely out of control. I think that comes through in her notes, imo.

I think that she likely knew that she would never keep getting away with it but was unable to stop. She probably thought she'd be caught in the act by a doctor or other member of staff and probably never had any thoughts that she'd get the Six O'clock Knock at her house.

I wonder when we'll get news on whether new charges are going to be brought or whether the investigation is going to be wrapped up? Wasn't it speculated that it was likely to be before the of the year or start of next?

 

[Baileyboo]

I've always thought her getting caught with the post it notes and handover was very strange. The police didn't randomly turn up one night right after she moved off the unit it was two years later! She appeared to know the police were investigating her so a dawn raid was always likely to happen at some point. She had plenty of time to go through everything yet she kept a note stating " she killed them on purpose " and deliberately moved handover sheets while on police bail. I don't think she's as normal or beige as she comes across.

 

[Tortoise]

Personally, I'm leaning towards her being completely out of control. I think that comes through in her notes, imo.

I think that she likely knew that she would never keep getting away with it but was unable to stop. She probably thought she'd be caught in the act by a doctor or other member of staff and probably never had any thoughts that she'd get the Six O'clock Knock at her house.

I wonder when we'll get news on whether new charges are going to be brought or whether the investigation is going to be wrapped up? Wasn't it speculated that it was likely to be before the of the year or start of next?

They were recruiting for the investigation in October, for a position anticipated to last for two years.

 

[Tortoise]

I've always thought her getting caught with the post it notes and handover was very strange. The police didn't randomly turn up one night right after she moved off the unit it was two years later! She appeared to know the police were investigating her so a dawn raid was always likely to happen at some point. She had plenty of time to go through everything yet she kept a note stating " she killed them on purpose " and deliberately moved handover sheets while on police bail. I don't think she's as normal or beige as she comes across.

At most I think she thought she'd be asked to go in to answer questions, like everyone else, and succeed in convincing them she was good as gold. I don't think she could have ever thought they'd arrest her first, and search her house. That's why she was looking so worried as they took her to the car, IMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I've always thought her getting caught with the post it notes and handover was very strange. The police didn't randomly turn up one night right after she moved off the unit it was two years later! She appeared to know the police were investigating her so a dawn raid was always likely to happen at some point. She had plenty of time to go through everything yet she kept a note stating " she killed them on purpose " and deliberately moved handover sheets while on police bail. I don't think she's as normal or beige as she comes across.

Compulsive behaviour she was unable to control, most likely. If she was compelled to harm and kill babies it seems reasonable that she was compelled to keep this stuff - in the case of the notes, to write them in the first place.

I think she knew that she was like this and that what she was doing was wrong. The big bold HELP in one of her notes is evidence of that, I think.

 

[katydid23]

In terms of the question about her being out of control at times---I saw it in a few examples.

Her Vacation Pattern:
There was a pattern, that showed when she took her 10 day family vacations with her parents. [not sure if it was 10 or 14 days]---
But every time, there was a pattern----the last day she worked before she left on vacation, a baby would collapse unexpectedly. Some died, some recovered.

----But the last day before she left, there'd always be a collapse.

----And then, on the very day she'd return, there'd be another collapse. Every time.

It's like she had to harm one on Friday before she left because she knew she'd have to wait 2 weeks until the next 'high.'

And excitedly, on her return, she'd quickly 'save' another child experiencing a sudden unexplained collapse.

While she was away for 10 to 14 days, at a time, there were no unexplained collapsing incidents. Only on the day of her return, would the collapses begin again.


The Triplet Boys---the End of Her:

On her last week of working as a nurse, she had just returned from her vacation. And there were triplets in the clinic. She was very excited to hear about their arrival. On her first day back, she had texted co-workers that she was going to come back to work 'with a bang.'

And one of the triplets, Baby O, who had been thriving and doing very well, unexpectedly collapsed and died the day Lucy returned from vacation. Baby O was in good condition until the afternoon of June 23, 2016, when his health suddenly and "remarkably" deteriorated. Despite resuscitation efforts, he died that evening

There were no unusual collapses while she was gone. The last unexplained incident was on the last day that Lucy had worked on the floor. Now she returned and there was another collapse ending in a death.

The doctors were up in arms. They demanded that Lucy be taken off the floor until an investigation could be done. BEFORE the doctors could get their demands met, there was another tragedy.

Child O's Baby brother , Baby P , died just over 24 hours later, on June 24, 2016, after also suffering multiple sudden collapses. Medical experts for the prosecution concluded that the collapses were consistent with an injection of air into his system. Just before a planned transfer to another hospital, Letby was overheard making a comment, "he's not leaving here alive, is he?".

 

[Baileyboo]

Compulsive behaviour she was unable to control, most likely. If she was compelled to harm and kill babies it seems reasonable that she was compelled to keep this stuff - in the case of the notes, to write them in the first place.

I think she knew that she was like this and that what she was doing was wrong. The big bold HELP in one of her notes is evidence of that, I think.

Yes I think when she wrote that post it note she had a moment of clarity when she realised how evil her behaviour was and was terrified that she was about to get her comeuppance. She felt compelled to keep it in a diary with the year it happened on. The contrast between the girlish child like boggle diary and the darkness of post it note remarks is stark. I think this maybe why public opinion is so divided on Letby there is two completely opposing sides to her character.
At baby K's retrial Nick Johnson suggests the reason she looked up baby K's mother up on Facebook in March 2018 is this when nurse Joanne Williams was interviewed by the police. This should have been clear warning they would investigate her sooner or later. I'm surprised her father wasn't preparing her for being arrested.

 

[Marantz4250b]

They were recruiting for the investigation in October, for a position anticipated to last for two years.

Perhaps we still have a bit of a wait on, then?

 

[Parker Knoll]

https://mol.im/a/14154609

I’m guessing we are in for the long haul again.

 

[Dotta]

https://mol.im/a/14154609

I’m guessing we are in for the long haul again.

This case started - exactly when??
2018??

Phew!

 

[Sweeper2000]

This case started - exactly when??
2018??

Phew!

Nope that case started in 1990 D.

 

[Kemug]

Some of you believe that there simply must be something in her past to explain why she was obsessed with attacking babies, and I agree. Is it possible that she had given birth in the past, do you think? Whether her parents knew or not. Possibly even from rape. Just an idea.

 

[Marantz4250b]

https://mol.im/a/14154609

I’m guessing we are in for the long haul again.

Yep!

Couple of years at least, I'd imagine.

 

[Marantz4250b]

This case started - exactly when??
2018??

Phew!

She was first arrested 3rd July 2018. I think the police had been looking at it since early 2017? Possibly 2016?

 

[Marantz4250b]

Some of you believe that there simply must be something in her past to explain why she was obsessed with attacking babies, and I agree. Is it possible that she had given birth in the past, do you think? Whether her parents knew or not. Possibly even from rape. Just an idea.

There is nothing to suggest anything like that in anything we've ever seen or heard relating to her.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Yes police first called in may 2017 then first arrest July 18 then again June 19 then arrested and charged November 2020.
She’s heading for her 6th Christmas in prison.

 

[joltz]

I've always thought her getting caught with the post it notes and handover was very strange. The police didn't randomly turn up one night right after she moved off the unit it was two years later! She appeared to know the police were investigating her so a dawn raid was always likely to happen at some point. She had plenty of time to go through everything yet she kept a note stating " she killed them on purpose " and deliberately moved handover sheets while on police bail. I don't think she's as normal or beige as she comes across.

I don't think she thought her house would be raided. She had been in her mind, vindicated because she had won the grievance and she had been told multiple times that she could come back. She had also been offered further training with a view to potentially moving elsewhere, from memory. She was aware the police had spoken to her colleagues, so I think she expected to have the same sort of thing, not a dawn raid. She was also getting smoke blown up her ar*e by Dr Choc and others telling her how great she was and she hadn't done anything wrong.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Just so thought. In regards to the stuff found in her house maybe it would be easier to assume she herself actually thought little of it to the point of more or less forgetting it was there. I know the prosecution made a big deal of it ofc he did but doesn't mean he was correct. Maybe she didn't really think that what was there would be incriminating hence why she didn't get rid of it. None of it was stored in a way as to suggest great importance. Under the bed fir the med files, in a cabinet or drawer for the diary i think ? In her drawer at work for the post it notes wasn't it? Haphazard seemingly.

None of the above makes its presence less incriminating nor less noteworthy nor less inferential imo it just suggests she didn't care about it. Maybe ???

 

[Kemug]

There is nothing to suggest anything like that in anything we've ever seen or heard relating to her.

No there isn't. As I said, it is just an idea.