GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[May72031]

I concur with what others had said, regarding the documentary and the new footage. It exposed yet another lie Letby and her supporters use - that the handover sheets were just accidentally brought home and left scattered here and there. I wish these documentaries would actually alert their viewers to some of the outrageous unevidenced claims made by McDonald and his "team of experts". They should start by pointing out that one of McDonald's "experts" made a false - and potentially libellous - claim accusing a doctor of killing a baby with a needle inserted into its liver. His "team of experts" then changed tactic, and presented a completely different theory involving a "traumatic birth", which, again, has no evidence to support it. Instead, they are presented as being credible. They are not.

But the AI stuff was a big turnoff. The age-old techniques of blurring out a person, or using an actor to portray them, or voice them, is still the way to go.

 

[CooperDyl]

I personally think the documentary did a pretty decent job of portraying both sides of the case, and also explaining why proponents of both her guilt and innocence may believe what they do.

The first 2/3rds of the doco recounts the evidence against Letby as well as providing a bit of background on the cases and the hospital involved, as well as Lucy herself. You hear from the prosecutions expert witness and also the police. The body cam footage also gave a good insight into what thing actually looked like in her arrests. If you stop the documentary at the 1 hour mark, you’ve essentially watched all you need to be fully convinced of Letby’s guilt.

The last third of the documentary goes back over that same evidence with a new light, explaining how it could have been misinterpreted or misconstrued. We also hear from a couple defenders of her innocence.

Agree with the posters above that the AI ‘digital anonymisation’ of some of those interviewed was terribly done and horribly jarring. Not a fan at all. Other than that I thought it was a pretty well made documentary and I could see people coming away from it either reaffirmed in their personal opinion of her guilt or innocence, or with new doubts either way.

Lastly, I find it hard to believe that nobody else has been held criminally liable to date (I know there were a few related arrests last year but afaik there hasn’t been a trial?). Even if you’re 100% convinced in Letby’s guilt - the people and institutions who let this go on for so long need to answer some serious questions.

All imo.

 

[Kasmeer]

I'm actually extremely surprised that it wasn't reported on during the trial. In my minds eye I'd always expected that they were simply randomly stuffed into places, such as the bag under the bed, but there were all ordered and were shown in a neat stack.

I think that that one point, if reported at the time, would have put a lot of her critics off from the outset.

Absolutely - although I did come to see her guilt eventually, I thought (and still did until, just now), that way too much was being made of those papers and it's easy for someone disorganised to bring them home and then dump them somewhere without thinking about them, as a "I'll deal with it later" kinda thing. Had they reported this, I'd have seen the significance immediately and probably been convinced rather sooner!

I might actually watch this one based on comments here; I usually avoid all LL coverage as the "innocence" claims annoy me too much and I can't face listening to a lot of nonsense, but it sounds like this one had some reasonable facts in it.

 

[JellyBee]

I’ve worked in healthcare previously so have always defended the idea of her being found with handover sheets. It’s so easy to put them in your pocket and then go home and realise you forgot to put it in the confidential waste bin.

That being said, it is absolutely drilled into you that handover sheets contain personal confidential information and if you lost it in public, your job would be at risk. When I’d accidentally take sheets home, I’d even worry about the possibility of my home being burgled and these sheets somehow ending up in the wrong hands. I can’t fathom that a ‘highly qualified/skilled’ nurse would take 250+ of them home and not worry about it, unless they were keeping them for nefarious purposes. That alone could get you into serious trouble with the NMC, let alone everything else she was doing.

I don’t put much stock into the fact they were chronological as you could argue she just put them in the box so they were chronological by default. But the fact there was 250+ and they were in a box marked ‘keep’ is utterly bizarre. The only possible defence I could think of is that she didn’t see them as containing private and sensitive information because it pertained to newborn babies and not adults. It is a worrying thought indeed.

 

[Parker Knoll]

There is absolutely no reason what so ever she would have 250 + handover sheets in a box in chronological order that had been moved from house to house several times except as some form of trophy that she could read and take pleasure from knowing she was responsible for the injuries those babies were subjected to.
She’s a sadist and she murdered them that’s why she kept them.

 

[WaneLyrical]

Re the handover sheets it’s was already testified in court that the largest bundle was found in a bag for life under the bed, a more recent smaller bundle was in an Ibiza bag for life (the new post-Ibiza work bag), a few in the keep box, and her first ever one (pristine) in a keepsake box.

The fact the documentary showed a clip of a neat pile does not mean all 250 handover notes were in a neat pile. Quite frankly the documentary’s description of the handover notes is entirely at odds with court testimony.

Yes they were chronological, obviously they were chronological if she was adding to the stack each day. It would be weird if they were in a different order other than shift order.

Surely it would be more damning if the small number relating to the babies in the case were found together, or somehow separated out?

The only true new information about the handover sheets is that they weren’t folded.

 

[Parker Knoll]

None of this can get any more damning for her.

 

[JellyBee]

The only true new information about the handover sheets is that they weren’t folded.

Most people immediately fold the sheets and put them in their pocket after handover as you’re walking away to start your shift. Personally, I wouldn’t have just left it somewhere on a desk in pristine condition, but I worked with adults and some of them had DNR’s which was the reason I carried the sheet. You could argue that she knew the babies well enough that she didn’t need the sheets for reference when providing their care. But it still doesn’t explain how she got them home without folding them, or without them getting squashed in her bag. She was preserving them for a reason

 

[Baileyboo]

Re the handover sheets it’s was already testified in court that the largest bundle was found in a bag for life under the bed, a more recent smaller bundle was in an Ibiza bag for life (the new post-Ibiza work bag), a few in the keep box, and her first ever one (pristine) in a keepsake box.

The fact the documentary showed a clip of a neat pile does not mean all 250 handover notes were in a neat pile. Quite frankly the documentary’s description of the handover notes is entirely at odds with court testimony.

Yes they were chronological, obviously they were chronological if she was adding to the stack each day. It would be weird if they were in a different order other than shift order.

Surely it would be more damning if the small number relating to the babies in the case were found together, or somehow separated out?

The only true new information about the handover sheets is that they weren’t folded.

She would have needed to fold into her pocket for work? If she had a pristine unfolded copy, it would suggest she had deliberately copied or printed one out to keep.
The lying about accidentally taking them home and not knowing how to dispose of them was bad. She obviously kept them because they were important to her. She would have been better off just admitting to this.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Thats sus as hell. Not just stored but deliberately placed and ordered. I would have thought more of the handovers had I have known they were actually FILED. It does indeed suggest care and value not just collected assorted random papers. At trial they were just weird now they are certainly suspect.

 

[Lincoln34]

The Crime Agents Podcast released and episode today including an interview with ex minister Jeremy Hunt. Very pro Letby. Link Letby : Time for a retrial?

 

[Marantz4250b]

I don’t put much stock into the fact they were chronological as you could argue she just put them in the box so they were chronological by default. But the fact there was 250+ and they were in a box marked ‘keep’ is utterly bizarre. The only possible defence I could think of is that she didn’t see them as containing private and sensitive information because it pertained to newborn babies and not adults. It is a worrying thought inindeed.

They weren't just in a box, though. Some were in a Morrisons bag under her bed. More importantly, these had acoumpanied her on multiple house moves.

Not only that, but the sheets were in multiple locations as some were at her parents house 100 miles away! If that doesn't categorically prove that these were being "kept/stored" because they held some significance to her, rather than simply being held onto until such time as they could be peoperly destroyed, then I don't know what does!

 

[Ruthbullock]

There is absolutely no reason what so ever she would have 250 + handover sheets in a box in chronological order that had been moved from house to house several times except as some form of trophy that she could read and take pleasure from knowing she was responsible for the injuries those babies were subjected to.
She’s a sadist and she murdered them that’s why she kept them.

There are 2 reasons that she may have had them:
1: she was irresponsible and took them home and put them into a folder to dispose of at some point in the future- hence the chronology, it was coincidence not logic that produced the order.
2. She was attempting to gather her own evidence for a grievance

 

[Ruthbullock]

They weren't just in a box, though. Some were in a Morrisons bag under her bed. More importantly, these had acoumpanied her on multiple house moves.

Not only that, but the sheets were in multiple locations as some were at her parents house 100 miles away! If that doesn't categorically prove that these were being "kept/stored" because they held some significance to her, rather than simply being held onto until such time as they could be peoperly destroyed, then I don't know what does!

That can’t be true- they were all now kept in date order filed in a single location! Or maybe the press each take their own little spin on things- all which should be taken with a large pinch of salt, or maybe a handful of salt at this rate.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Okaaaay.

 

[Baileyboo]

That can’t be true- they were all now kept in date order filed in a single location! Or maybe the press each take their own little spin on things- all which should be taken with a large pinch of salt, or maybe a handful of salt at this rate.

Didn't the police find five hand over sheets in a shredder box, marked keep, which had moved with her to her parent's house? She had one handover sheets in a special box. She kept them because she had an attachment to them and used them to Facebook stalk the parents. She could have easily disposed of them but she desperately wanted to keep them.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Didn't the police find five hand over sheets in a shredder box, marked keep, which had moved with her to her parent's house? She had one handover sheets in a special box. She kept them because she had an attachment to them and used them to Facebook stalk the parents. She could have easily disposed of them but she desperately wanted to keep them.

I wonder if there is some more we are yet to hear about, the ones they recovered whilst digging up her parents back garden,

 

[Skiede]

There are 2 reasons that she may have had them:
1: she was irresponsible and took them home and put them into a folder to dispose of at some point in the future- hence the chronology, it was coincidence not logic that produced the order.
2. She was attempting to gather her own evidence for a grievanc

There are 2 reasons that she may have had them:
1: she was irresponsible and took them home and put them into a folder to dispose of at some point in the future- hence the chronology, it was coincidence not logic that produced the order.
2. She was attempting to gather her own evidence for a grievance

You say - ‘2. She was attempting to gather her own evidence for a grievance’.
Hand over sheets are printed off in ‘Real Time’ - ready for the start of the shift. Once the patient has been discharged from the ward using the hospital’s electronic system you cannot print off a ‘hand over sheet’ in retrospect. It’s absolutely impossible. So having 257 hand over sheets is pretty damning.