GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[Parker Knoll]

That’s exactly what this snake oil salesman did by holding that press conference.
Perfect stage to spout his unchallenged analysis and get it out to the sheep who lapped it up and the whole “ Lucy is innocent “ BS starts again.
He knows exactly what he’s doing which apart from behaving in a way that is totally unbecoming of a member of the bar and he should know better, in the absence of new and compelling evidence he makes a noise and any noise will do for him and her right now.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Genuine question- What do you believe they were attempting to find in the back garden or the rooftop gutters? Keeping in mind we know what they were investigating now and what evidence they had. I can remember watching this unfold and my impression was that they were going to discover babies under the patio and that this as yet unnamed nurse was being investigated and was potentially stealing corpses to hide the murders she was doing. In retrospect I can’t think of one reason to dig up the garden, so perhaps you can enlighten me and hazard a guess.

I think your jumping it tbh. I would guess they expected to find nothing but maybe it was done just to be safe. As I say no stone unturned when it comes to murder. However it might be true they dug up the patio as it was new or maybe the senior letbys like gardening and had been doing some digging which is well within range. I genuinely believe they expected to find nothing.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Not sure what the COCH did but we were using handovers (at that time) updated each shift on the PC and printed one for each member of staff for handover...nurses could then also add hand written notes to these sheets ...but either way ..the point I was making was ...she couldn't have gone back at a later date and printed off months of handover sheets in one go in order for her to use for her grievance or evidence...this was being used as a possible reason for her to have multiple chronological handovers

Aside form this being on the Netflix documentary- There are mixed statements about this all over the internet now- what is your take on where and what evidence was found at her property? We seem to have gone from a shredder box marked keep with 5 sheets in and various carrier bags shoved full of handover sheets under her bed to what almost feels like a shelf of binders in chronological order with 257 handover sheets. The only logic being pushed to make them anymore evidential of being used as trophies is that they were in chronological order- well unless she started sifting through them, they will always be in chronological order, if they had been organised by child it may have been more indicative of a thought process. If there had been a period of time that they were collected from, or they represented certain babies that also would have provided some incite- but from the trial context itself they were kept as trophies (but didn’t include all the victims) and nothing more has been revealed about them.

I was the poster who suggested they may have been collected as part of a grievance- I don’t see why she would need to go back in time to do that- if something got her gut, she kept the handover sheets on that day. We have nothing to say otherwise. However I also think IMO there was no purpose to them, other than that she couldn’t be bothered to return them to work to dispose of. I suggested the latter as an alternative to a poster who could see one reason alone for keeping them.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I think your jumping it tbh. I would guess they expected to find nothing but maybe it was done just to be safe. As I say no stone unturned when it comes to murder. However it might be true they dug up the patio as it was new or maybe the senior letbys like gardening and had been doing some digging which is well within range. I genuinely believe they expected to find nothing.

But it’s not a normal process- I mean this is from today in the press and they did find the body in the garden- but they didn’t jump straight into showboating by digging up the garden it was based on some evidence and even then it wasn’t the first thing.

https://www.derbyshire.police.uk/news/derbyshire/news/news/forcewide/2026/february/woman-found-guilty-after-murdering-and-dismembering-partner-and-burying-her-in-garden/

 

[Parker Knoll]

She had ample opportunity to say she had been taking them home in order for her to compile her grievance when she was on the stand … she was asked many times why.
Her answer as we all know was “ I collect paper “
Literally from the horses mouth was no mention of any grievance procedure why she had them.

 

[JosieJo]

Aside form this being on the Netflix documentary- There are mixed statements about this all over the internet now- what is your take on where and what evidence was found at her property? We seem to have gone from a shredder box marked keep with 5 sheets in and various carrier bags shoved full of handover sheets under her bed to what almost feels like a shelf of binders in chronological order with 257 handover sheets. The only logic being pushed to make them anymore evidential of being used as trophies is that they were in chronological order- well unless she started sifting through them, they will always be in chronological order, if they had been organised by child it may have been more indicative of a thought process. If there had been a period of time that they were collected from, or they represented certain babies that also would have provided some incite- but from the trial context itself they were kept as trophies (but didn’t include all the victims) and nothing more has been revealed about them.

I was the poster who suggested they may have been collected as part of a grievance- I don’t see why she would need to go back in time to do that- if something got her gut, she kept the handover sheets on that day. We have nothing to say otherwise. However I also think IMO there was no purpose to them, other than that she couldn’t be bothered to return them to work to dispose of. I suggested the latter as an alternative to a poster who could see one reason alone for keeping them.

Personally I don't take anything major from the handover sheets in relation to murder. I think it shows she is extremely odd or has some type of obsessive disorder etc . I wouldn't see them as trophies unless the victims were singled out and stored together. It's possible she used some of them to refer back to in relation to her crimes but I do not think that was her main reason for keeping them.
That aside she was shown to be a bare faced liar around her having them ..that I have no doubt.

No way did she not know how to get rid of them and they were not collected accidentally

 

[Sweeper2000]

Not gonna repeat it. It was just a media article that says nothing about how serious the police were about it

 

[Parker Knoll]

Personally I take HUGE store from her taking handover sheets home.
She had all her murders to go back over, re live and hone her methods right there in her own bedroom.
It’s grotesque.

 

[WaneLyrical]

Apologies because I'm forgetting the exact instance you're referencing, but a neonatal baby who is on oxygen would almost certainly be having NG feeds too. So did she also remove the NG tube for a photo opportunity?

NG tube isn’t mentioned, if the baby had one I assume it was left in situ. The article only refers to oxygen delivery. (We’re talking about a family unrelated to the case who told the press Letby removed their baby’s breathing equipment to take a photograph.)

 

[WaneLyrical]

These guidelines only refer to CPAP. I believe your earlier argument was in relation to oxygen being administered through nasal prongs. How frequently does that equipment need to be cleaned? When my daughter was in NICU and later SCBU, she often pulled her nasal cannula out with her fidgety arms, but even then it wasn't cleaned before being put back in. And in those moments that she was being deprived of the oxygen she needed, I wasn't taking photos, I was calling a nurse to help her.

The hospital took a photo of my daughter in NICU because I couldn't be by her side. Funnily enough they didn't remove her ventilator to get a "better" photo of her.

No we’re talking about a baby described as having a “mask”, which I why I provided CPAP guidelines.

 

[joltz]

The fact that you are on a public forum discussing the fact you disagree shows that your last paragraph is incorrect. You believe MM held a press conference to avoid the risk of it being analysed etc, whilst you are doing that very thing, as have many others including the press- so he was either very short sighted (I have to be honest I’m doubtful he didn’t understand the long game in his own profession), or your assumption that this was the basis of the press conference is inaccurate.

My last paragraph wasn't incorrect in any way. I don't think McDonald cares that some random person online is analysing it, after the fact.

The point which you seemed to have completely missed, is that the press conference was presented live without the ability to question any of the ridiculous claims made. It was also attended by a group of journalists sympathetic to the cause, who were given free reign to ask, imo, pre determined questions.

 

[joltz]

Aside form this being on the Netflix documentary- There are mixed statements about this all over the internet now- what is your take on where and what evidence was found at her property? We seem to have gone from a shredder box marked keep with 5 sheets in and various carrier bags shoved full of handover sheets under her bed to what almost feels like a shelf of binders in chronological order with 257 handover sheets. The only logic being pushed to make them anymore evidential of being used as trophies is that they were in chronological order- well unless she started sifting through them, they will always be in chronological order, if they had been organised by child it may have been more indicative of a thought process. If there had been a period of time that they were collected from, or they represented certain babies that also would have provided some incite- but from the trial context itself they were kept as trophies (but didn’t include all the victims) and nothing more has been revealed about them.

I was the poster who suggested they may have been collected as part of a grievance- I don’t see why she would need to go back in time to do that- if something got her gut, she kept the handover sheets on that day. We have nothing to say otherwise. However I also think IMO there was no purpose to them, other than that she couldn’t be bothered to return them to work to dispose of. I suggested the latter as an alternative to a poster who could see one reason alone for keeping them.

"We have nothing to say otherwise"

Are you serious?

Letby was asked at length, by the police, her defense, and the prosecution about why she took and kept the handovers. She never once offered this reasoning. So, yes, there is something to say otherwise. Letbys own words.

The borrowers, took the handovers for Letby, and stored them for her.

We have nothing to say otherwise....

 

[joltz]

Personally I don't take anything major from the handover sheets in relation to murder. I think it shows she is extremely odd or has some type of obsessive disorder etc . I wouldn't see them as trophies unless the victims were singled out and stored together. It's possible she used some of them to refer back to in relation to her crimes but I do not think that was her main reason for keeping them.
That aside she was shown to be a bare faced liar around her having them ..that I have no doubt.

No way did she not know how to get rid of them and they were not collected accidentally

I don't think anyone is accusing Letby of being a murderer because of the handovers.

It proves a few things through.

Letby lied to the jury and the police.
Letby was breaking the rules from the moment she became a nurse and she was doing it with purpose.
Letby altered her version of events to suit the questions being asked at the time, while contradicting things she had said previously.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Yip agree with that. It would have been much easier to discount the handovers if she hadn't said a whole bunch of weird stuff with it. "Its not the contents its the paper" "what shredder" amongst others. If she had kf just said "yeh I have taken them home but they are so unimportant to me I just bag them and forget about them" but she can't say that though because they are ordered nor can she say she ordered them waiting on disposal. It just did not add up. The way that was presented at court and imo it wasnt much but was suspect at the very least.

Jmo

 

[WaneLyrical]

Personally I take HUGE store from her taking handover sheets home.
She had all her murders to go back over, re live and hone her methods right there in her own bedroom.
It’s grotesque.

The court transcript of the handover evidence is available online. Sheets covering the murder period June 2015 to June 2016 (pre-Ibiza) were in the Morrisons bag under the bed. There were 31 sheets in it. Of those, 9 of 10 related to some of the babies she was convicted of harming. But only one is from a relevant date - 9 June 2015, when Baby B collapsed.

For the rest, it’s not clear what they’re trophies of. Why would a handover sheet dated 6 weeks after an attempted murder be a trophy?

Then there’s the post-Ibiza bag, Letby’s “Back With a Bang” bag. She was taken off the unit within a week of getting that bag. it contained all 4 handover sheets from that week, (the week she was removed from clinical duties). They of course included O, P (and Q).

So out of 250+ sheets found and dated between her student days and her removal from the unit, three were trophies?

That’s the handover sheet evidence? That’s how she goes home and “re-lives murders?”

I don’t even know how this handover sheet nonsense is allowed as evidence.

 

[May72031]

I was the poster who suggested they may have been collected as part of a grievance- I don’t see why she would need to go back in time to do that- if something got her gut, she kept the handover sheets on that day. We have nothing to say otherwise.

I don't understand this. She was taking home handover sheets well before any hint of a grievance process or issues on the ward.

 

[Sweeper2000]

The court transcript of the handover evidence is available online. Sheets covering the murder period June 2015 to June 2016 (pre-Ibiza) were in the Morrisons bag under the bed. There were 31 sheets in it. Of those, 9 of 10 related to some of the babies she was convicted of harming. But only one is from a relevant date - 9 June 2015, when Baby B collapsed.

For the rest, it’s not clear what they’re trophies of. Why would a handover sheet dated 6 weeks after an attempted murder be a trophy?

Then there’s the post-Ibiza bag, Letby’s “Back With a Bang” bag. She was taken off the unit within a week of getting that bag. it contained all 4 handover sheets from that week, (the week she was removed from clinical duties). They of course included O, P (and Q).

So out of 250+ sheets found and dated between her student days and her removal from the unit, three were trophies?

That’s the handover sheet evidence? That’s how she goes home and “re-lives murders?”

I don’t even know how this handover sheet nonsense is allowed as evidence.

All evidence in though, without sectioning it you really not think its strange? Ie no shredder, multiple house moves and presumably she disposed of some stuff before those moves, very deliberately ordering them? Proactively storing under bed etc

 

[joltz]

The court transcript of the handover evidence is available online. Sheets covering the murder period June 2015 to June 2016 (pre-Ibiza) were in the Morrisons bag under the bed. There were 31 sheets in it. Of those, 9 of 10 related to some of the babies she was convicted of harming. But only one is from a relevant date - 9 June 2015, when Baby B collapsed.

For the rest, it’s not clear what they’re trophies of. Why would a handover sheet dated 6 weeks after an attempted murder be a trophy?

Then there’s the post-Ibiza bag, Letby’s “Back With a Bang” bag. She was taken off the unit within a week of getting that bag. it contained all 4 handover sheets from that week, (the week she was removed from clinical duties). They of course included O, P (and Q).

So out of 250+ sheets found and dated between her student days and her removal from the unit, three were trophies?

That’s the handover sheet evidence? That’s how she goes home and “re-lives murders?”

I don’t even know how this handover sheet nonsense is allowed as evidence.

Letby was unable to spell a family name when asked to do so. A name which she had been FB searching.

There's no doubt it would be a lot easier to do with the handover sheets. Handovers sheets which she had stored under her bed within arms reach.

 

[Parker Knoll]

The court transcript of the handover evidence is available online. Sheets covering the murder period June 2015 to June 2016 (pre-Ibiza) were in the Morrisons bag under the bed. There were 31 sheets in it. Of those, 9 of 10 related to some of the babies she was convicted of harming. But only one is from a relevant date - 9 June 2015, when Baby B collapsed.

For the rest, it’s not clear what they’re trophies of. Why would a handover sheet dated 6 weeks after an attempted murder be a trophy?

Then there’s the post-Ibiza bag, Letby’s “Back With a Bang” bag. She was taken off the unit within a week of getting that bag. it contained all 4 handover sheets from that week, (the week she was removed from clinical duties). They of course included O, P (and Q).

So out of 250+ sheets found and dated between her student days and her removal from the unit, three were trophies?

That’s the handover sheet evidence? That’s how she goes home and “re-lives murders?”

I don’t even know how this handover sheet nonsense is allowed as evidence.

This is utterly pointless continuing.
You made a point and I answered that point and you come back with more nonsense.
I’m out.

 

[joltz]

The court transcript of the handover evidence is available online. Sheets covering the murder period June 2015 to June 2016 (pre-Ibiza) were in the Morrisons bag under the bed. There were 31 sheets in it. Of those, 9 of 10 related to some of the babies she was convicted of harming. But only one is from a relevant date - 9 June 2015, when Baby B collapsed.

For the rest, it’s not clear what they’re trophies of. Why would a handover sheet dated 6 weeks after an attempted murder be a trophy?

Then there’s the post-Ibiza bag, Letby’s “Back With a Bang” bag. She was taken off the unit within a week of getting that bag. it contained all 4 handover sheets from that week, (the week she was removed from clinical duties). They of course included O, P (and Q).

So out of 250+ sheets found and dated between her student days and her removal from the unit, three were trophies?

That’s the handover sheet evidence? That’s how she goes home and “re-lives murders?”

I don’t even know how this handover sheet nonsense is allowed as evidence.

On what planet would the handovers not be allowed as evidence?

Letby had the confidential paperwork of babies she was accused of murdering, with their identifiable information on, stored underneath her bed.