GUILTY UK - Olivia, 4, twins Ben & Max Clarence, 3, smothered, London, 22 April 2014

[zwiebel]

It says here 'inconclusive' and there will be more tests.

The mother is due in court again tomorrow.

http://www.london24.com/news/news/o...n_children_found_dead_in_new_malden_1_3575270

 

[craftybatchy]

Tania Clarence, 42 has been remanded into custody following the discovery of the bodies of three of her four young children.

A daughter, age 4, and twin 3 year old sons, were found dead on April 22, 2014. All three were diagnosed with SMA (spinal muscular atrophy), an incurable, terminal illness.

Her husband and 8 year old daughter were vacationing in South Africa at the time. Friends allege that Clarence bore more than her share of caregiving responsibilities.

http://news.sky.com/story/1248424/arrested-mum-struggled-with-childrens-care

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have nothing but sympathy for them all.
I can even understand the mothers plight. I can't imagine ever processing the fact that she would watch 3 of her children suffer, struggle and die before they were five years old. I can understand her wanting to spare them that and send them off together...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fluttershy]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...anded-secure-hospital-children-murder-charges

A mother accused of murdering her three disabled children has been remanded to a secure hospital under the Mental Health Act.

Tania Clarence, 42, was denied bail but judge Brian Barker agreed for her to be detained in hospital because it was an "exceptional case" and because of her need for immediate treatment

All three children suffered from Type II spinal muscular atrophy, a genetic condition that can cause fatal respiratory problems and shorten life expectancy.

Police are investigating whether the cause of death was suffocation and it is believed toxicology tests are being conducted.

A plea and case management hearing will be held at the Old Bailey on 15 July

 

[forthelost]

Were they on vents? If they weren't, they weren't going to be dying from SMA any time soon.

Just noticed they weren't SMA I (Werdnig–Hoffmann disease, usually kills in infancy) but SMA II (Dubowitz disease, most children survive to adulthood.) No excuse, then. Conflating the first with the second is dishonest in the extreme because it implies they were going to die soon anyway.

 

[zwiebel]

There is a very detailed article here. Tania claimed she took a drug overdose that didn't work, and police say she was found by the nanny and a neighbour Tuesday night, with a 3cm cut on her left wrist.

She also left three suicide notes for her husband Gary. But the part of the note reproduced at the link ends 'shine down on us from heaven'.

I don't really understand because that sounds like someone saying a final goodbye to lost loved ones - not someone who intends to join them soon?

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/murder-accused-mom-s-notes-of-despair-1.1681751#.U2_Cr8saySM

 

[zwiebel]

Because Tania has been committed to an institution under the mental health act, I think there may be a good possibility she may be found unfit to stand trial. Largely because of making her plea in her present mental condition.

There have been cases in the UK of people being held for life under that act, for a crime like stealing a chocolate bar. And people who have committed murders being released after a very short time, and murdering again.

I've no idea what could happen in this case.

I haven't explained very well but I'll try and find the exact cases to explain what I mean. It may take a while as I only remember the legal cases, and not the names.

 

[zwiebel]

Example of case where a woman was found 'Unfit to Plead' under the Mental Health Act in England. This meant her crime was still heard by a jury, but she did not have to be present. And the judge does not have a prison option in these cases - the only options are being detained in an institution until docs says detainee is well enough for release, or a complete discharge.

'..psychiatrist said she was not fit to stand trial...He said she had tried to harm herself and there was a risk of suicide..'
'...(He) is satisfied that she is not able to give proper instructions....He recorded her as saying "I just want to plead guilty and be punished."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-17866333

'...the only options available to the judge are a mental health order,which could see her committed for psychiatric treatment, or a discharge.'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...unfit-to-stand-trial-for-expenses-fiddle.html

Please note, the case above was for financial fraud, not murder, and has no connection to this case. Except legal precedent wise, I believe. Tania Clarence has already been found to be in a similar mental condition, and has also said something very similar; "Why do I have to do this? I'm guilty." It's those similarities that make me believe Tania Clarence might never stand trial either.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/murder-accused-mom-s-notes-of-despair-1.1681751#.U2_F_8saySN

 

[forthelost]

I wish the media would look up the different types of SMA and stop portraying the kids as being on death's door. Most kids with their type live into adulthood.

 

[zwiebel]

Just making a note here that Tania is due to appear at the Old Bailey High Court July 15th, for a 'plea and case management' hearing. I suppose if she has been found unfit to plead, that's when it will be revealed?

http://guardianlv.com/2014/05/south...of-murdering-her-three-children-hospitalized/

 

[zwiebel]

'A South African-born mother accused of killing her three young disabled children in the UK has pleaded not guilty to murder, but guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.'


'Reports at the time indicated that Clarence was critically sleep-deprived and depressed, as the children required hourly medication and had to be tube-fed.'

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/SA-mom-pleads-not-guilty-to-murdering-kids-20140707

 

[zwiebel]

'A date was set for a three- to four-week trial to start on 21 February next year....The defendant was remanded to a secure psychiatric.'

There will also be a pre-trial, October 3rd.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...guilty-manslaughter-three-children-new-malden

'Mrs Clarence is accused of three counts of murdering a child aged over one year old between April 20 and April 23 this year.
All three youngsters suffered from type 2 spinal muscular atrophy.'

'The Old Bailey’s (name of court) matron, wearing a distinctive blue nurse’s uniform, sat in the packed public gallery during the hearing.
Mrs Clarence is originally from South Africa and moved to Britain with her husband some years ago.'

Tania Clarence has been charged with the murder by smothering of all three of her children, but has not admitted that. She is admitting manslaughter only.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-children-sectioned-judge.html#ixzz36ns40lKz

 

[Supernovae]

I hope they seriously interrogate the sleep deprivation defence, and have a reasonable shot at a murder charge. Does this woman deserve to be in prison for 40 years like Ian Huntley? I don't know but it's getting to the point where the children had significant disabilities= that's it, that's all people see, pity for the parent(s) whose personality flaws disappear and the violence against the children becomes invisible (I was thinking about this having read the Kelli Stapleton thread). Whatever her state of mind it takes a significant degree of resolve to smother three children in turn, and then there's the lingering suspicion that this was premeditate for when the husband and elder daughter were out of the country. I may have just been sinking in what her future looked like. Tania Clarence woman had better support and resources than almost every other parent in her situation. Anything else she could have done would have been more forgivable than what she did. If that means the night carers becoming part of the family or part time residential care then so be it. For women like her and Kelli Stapleton, I think the hardest part can be letting go of the image of themselves as ideal mothers to make the necessary compromises to make the situation liveable with. They can't find the space between martyr and murderer. I appreciate there's almost overwhelming societal pressure on women to take on the role of total motherhood, but ultimately adult women have responsibility for their actions (with the caveat that I'll wait for the full psychiatric reports to be released before making a final judgement).

 

[Supernovae]

It's worth looking at the antecedents for this:

Jacob Wragg who "could not do sad," smothered by his father. He got a suspended sentence.

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/f...the_very_short_but_happy_life_of_Jacob_Wragg/

http://www.theargus.co.uk/archive/2...killing__boy_s_fun_days_before_death/?ref=arc

http://www.theargus.co.uk/archive/2...ad_death_has_left_a_family_in_shreds/?ref=arc

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/dec/13/health.crime

The only killing of a disabled child I can recall where an exemplary sentence was given (life with a minimum of 15 years) was Naomi Hill's murder by her mother, Joanne:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-jailed-life-drowning-disabled-daughter.html

I think it's relevant that Naomi's disability was relatively minor. The jury rejected a plea of diminished responsibility despite Joanne Hill having an extensive history of mental illness and alcoholism. Nevertheless, even so, there was commentary in the media prepared to defend her:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/naomi-hill-murder-the-unique-pressures-340958

Frances Inglis: attempted to murdered her son, Tom, weeks after he was brain damaged in an accident, despite doctors being relatively optimistic about his chances of recovery. Later made a second successful attempt on his life:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2010/2637.html

She seems to have had a degree of mental instability and became morbidly obsessed with the idea that he was suffering unbearably. Nevertheless she was widely lauded in the press:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dont-punish-this-mother-courage-196676

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/21/life-sentence-makes-no-sense

One instructive aspect of the Inglis case was how the family seemingly identified with her position after the fact, like in the case of Andrew Wragg (although in this case it was never stated explicitly) reading between the lines their may have been some collusion by family members in the second attack. It seems that it's easier for the family member to rationalise the events after the fact by identifying with the accused family member.

In the Tania Clarence case, looking at the original Evening Standard article, an unidentified friend is quoted as saying that " could not function at all. They had no muscle strength whatsoever. It was so devastating." Whereas a neighbour said: "One of the children never got out of the wheelchair and the other two have difficulty in walking. They always seemed very happy and were delightful neighbours."

 

[forthelost]

Supernovae - they had type two SMA, not one. If they hadn't been killed they would have lived to adulthood and possibly even been able to have children. Type one SMA is the one everyone talks about in the articles, but it's not what they had, which to me is very misleading.

 

[Supernovae]

The Crown has accepted her plea of manslaughter by diminished responsibility. The Express currently has the most details, I think:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/52...r-killing-her-three-disabled-kids-court-hears

 

[MsFacetious]

What gorgeous kids they were. :loveyou:

I knew a young lady with SMA when I was in Junior High.
Her mother had left when she was diagnosed and her father was a single father.

That young lady completely changed the course of my life.
For a couple of years I went over to her house a few times a week for a few hours.
I helped to care for her and she caused me to start working with people with disabilities.

I fully credit that young lady with changing my perception of people with disabilities.
This prepared me for the birth of my daughter and allowed me to take her diagnosis in stride.

I cannot even imagine how my life would have been altered if that young lady hadn't lived to see Kindergarten. :twocents:

If the four-year old was diagnosed while she was pregnant, then it more than likely was SMA Type I. And unless one elects to have the children placed on ventilators, the condition is usually fatal before they are school aged. I've cared for children with this condition, and some families elect to not treat, letting the disease run its course and keep the child comfortable with hospice care only.
Other families elect to aggressively treat, and the child eventually becomes completely paralyzed, unable to breath or even blink.
I have cared for children in both scenarios in the home care environment. I will not comment about the quality of life in either case.

NOT excusing her conduct, just offering some information from my perspective.

 

[zwiebel]

Tania Clarence has pleaded guilty to manslaughter, which prosecution accepted. Her sentencing hearing is now underway in court in London, but she was too distressed to listen to the evidence and has been taken back to hospital.

It's likely her sentence will see her detained in a hospital, rather than jail. Live updates at the link. Although the hearing's today, judge will set the sentence at a later date.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tania-clarence-sentencing-live-updates-4627105

 

[zwiebel]

Jane Peel ‏@JanePeelNews 1 hr1 hour ago

Tania Clarence has left the dock in tears after hearing the prosecution describe how she killed 3 of her children

 

[zwiebel]

Jane Peel ‏@JanePeelNews 59 mins59 minutes ago

Prosecution say Tania Clarence found it much harder to kill 4-year-old Olivia and wrote a letter to husband Gary first