UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002

[Legally Bland]

Honestly i have never believed about the Pizza place....you would never remember the dates twenty years on for something like that

But if it was true I think he would be able to prove it. Not that it's really an alibi anyway, he could have easily gone to Tramp afterwards.

 

[UK Girl]

Under current legislation, individuals have a right to access their own health records, and in limited circumstances, to access information about other people. This right extends equally to all relevant records relating to living individuals, including records held in the private health sector and health professionals’ private practice records.

[...]

Previously, under the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA), data controllers of health records could charge between £10 and £50 for an access request, depending on where the records were held. However, since new data protection legislation came into force on 25 May 2018, record holders are no longer able to charge for accessing records. The exception to this is where requests are ‘manifestly unfounded or excessive’.9 In these cases, the data controller can charge a reasonable fee to cover the administrative costs or refuse to act on the request.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07103/SN07103.pdf

BBM.

Not just that we have our own online access to our medical records and it generally gives info on medical history. It would take literally seconds to get it. What i would say about the no charge I recently had to pay £30 something pound for my dr to sign something regarding my health as its classed as private work.

 

[otto]

to be fair even if he didnt have it in his possession...his Doctors could write a letter or print some thing off although it would likely cost him for it.

The problem with releasing personal medical information is that it can become a slippery slope. One statement leads to more questions, and so it goes until one person's privacy is breached due to another person's fishing expedition.

 

[Legally Bland]

The problem with releasing personal medical information is that it can become a slippery slope. One statement leads to more questions, and so it goes until one person's privacy is breached due to another person's fishing expedition.

PA voluntarily offered this medical information to the whole world as an alibi. It's not a fishing expedition for the plaintiff to ask for a medical record to confirm this.

 

[otto]

PA voluntarily offered this medical information to the whole world as an alibi. It's not a fishing expedition for the plaintiff to ask for a medical record to confirm this.

Prince Andrew is being asked to release medical records so that the information can be used against him. Suppose he provides a medical note from his doctor stating that he doesn't sweat. The next question is why he doesn't sweat. The next step is Giuffre seeking medical experts who claim that Prince Andrew's doctor is wrong in his medical opinion. This fishing expedition is specifically for the purpose of refusing to believe any information that is provided.

 

[Legally Bland]

Prince Andrew is being asked to release medical records so that the information can be used against him. Suppose he provides a medical note from his doctor stating that he doesn't sweat. The next question is why he doesn't sweat. The next step is Giuffre seeking medical experts who claim that Prince Andrew's doctor is wrong in his medical opinion. This fishing expedition is specifically for the purpose of refusing to believe any information that is provided.

Nah, PA is being asked to release a medical record which corroborates his story.

 

[otto]

Nah, PA is being asked to release a medical record which corroborates his story.

Everyone who has been involved in any litigation where medical records are requested knows full well that the answer is never "thank you, that's all we needed." It's the beginning of a saga that ends with every effort to prove that the medical information is incorrect.

 

[Legally Bland]

Everyone who has been involved in any litigation where medical records are requested knows full well that the answer is never "thank you, that's all we needed." It's the beginning of a saga that ends with every effort to prove that the medical information is incorrect.

So if you were accused of shooting someone, do you think it would be a valid defence to say you couldn't have done it is because you have tendinitis in your trigger finger, but proving that with medical records would be a slippery slope, so instead you claim you have no knowledge of being aware of any such medical records?

 

[otto]

So if you were accused of shooting someone, do you think it would be a valid defence to say you couldn't have done it is because you have tendinitis in your trigger finger, but proving that with medical records would be a slippery slope, so instead you claim you have no knowledge of being aware of any such medical records?

In an earlier linked article - can't find it offhand - Giuffre describes Epstein asking her to give a massage to guests. She knew that was code for erotic massage. I assume this means that when she was trafficked to Prince Andrew, Epstein told her to give him an erotic massage. Was he in on this? What did Giuffre do when Epstein told her to provide an erotic massage and men limited it to a regular massage?

If this is the case, that Giuffre gave Prince Andrew an erotic massage, then is there no other way to describe a man she gave an erotic massage to other than "he sweats?" Does she not know other details about a naked Prince Andrew that she can rely on to prove that it happened.

Perhaps the best witness to Prince Andrew's sweating is his wife, or Koo Stark - although maybe there's something that Markle can tell us about her association with Prince Andrew 20 years ago ???

 

[Dotta]

His tale of "not sweating" was soooo ridiculous that when hearing this I rolled my eyes while shaking my head.
It reminded me of my pupils' excuses such as "My dog ate my homework" or "I couldn't prepare for a test b/c there was a blackout in my area" haha

RFamily have excellent medical care and such a condition (serious, I might add) would be treated and documented.

In my opinion he made it up ad hoc during this disastrous interview.

It was embarrassing just to listen to and watch.
Although it was also comical, I had a good laugh

 

[UK Girl]

His tale of "not sweating" was soooo ridiculous that when hearing this I rolled my eyes while shaking my head.
It reminded me of my pupils' excuses such as "My dog ate my homework" or "I couldn't prepare for a test b/c there was a blackout in my area" haha

RFamily have excellent medical care and such a condition (serious, I might add) would be treated and documented.
In my opinion he made it up ad hoc during this disastrous interview.
It was embarassing just to listen to and watch.
Although it was also comical, I had a good laugh

Under current legislation, individuals have a right to access their own health records, and in limited circumstances, to access information about other people. This right extends equally to all relevant records relating to living individuals, including records held in the private health sector and health professionals’ private practice records.

[...]

Previously, under the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA), data controllers of health records could charge between £10 and £50 for an access request, depending on where the records were held. However, since new data protection legislation came into force on 25 May 2018, record holders are no longer able to charge for accessing records. The exception to this is where requests are ‘manifestly unfounded or excessive’.9 In these cases, the data controller can charge a reasonable fee to cover the administrative costs or refuse to act on the request.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07103/SN07103.pdf

BBM.

Not just that we have our own online access to our medical records and it generally gives info on medical history. It would take literally seconds to get it. What i would say about the no charge I recently had to pay £30 something pound for my dr to sign something regarding my health as its classed as private work.

to be fair Meghan and Diana would maybe disagree on that excellent medical care...although i agree you would think so at least.

 

[UK Girl]

In an earlier linked article - can't find it offhand - Giuffre describes Epstein asking her to give a massage to guests. She knew that was code for erotic massage. I assume this means that when she was trafficked to Prince Andrew, Epstein told her to give him an erotic massage. Was he in on this? What did Giuffre do when Epstein told her to provide an erotic massage and men limited it to a regular massage?

If this is the case, that Giuffre gave Prince Andrew an erotic massage, then is there no other way to describe a man she gave an erotic massage to other than "he sweats?" Does she not know other details about a naked Prince Andrew that she can rely on to prove that it happened.

Perhaps the best witness to Prince Andrew's sweating is his wife, or Koo Stark - although maybe there's something that Markle can tell us about her association with Prince Andrew 20 years ago ???

Lol that made me laugh what he said about Meghan and what she might have seen. How was she meant to have seen anything? she wasnt even around and actually he is one Royal she supposedly got on with. Logically though if they was going to call anyone why not call his daughters? they can ask about this supposed party at the pizza place and clear that up . I have to say I feel kinda sorry for them pair though being dragged into it all.

 

[Dotta]

to be fair Meghan and Diana would maybe disagree on that excellent medical care...although i agree you would think so at least.

Well, one can't compare M&D with Royal fav son

 

[otto]

His tale of "not sweating" was soooo ridiculous that when hearing this I rolled my eyes while shaking my head.
It reminded me of my pupils' excuses such as "My dog ate my homework" or "I couldn't prepare for a test b/c there was a blackout in my area" haha

RFamily have excellent medical care and such a condition (serious, I might add) would be treated and documented.
In my opinion he made it up ad hoc during this disastrous interview.
It was embarrassing just to listen to and watch.
Although it was also comical, I had a good laugh

How many people who are publicly accused of being sweaty deny it regardless of the truth? Doubling down would be a bad idea.

 

[Dotta]

I'm going to watch this lawsuit closely.
I might even whistle the tune of "Those were the days my friend" while reading the updates

Fingers crossed for you Virginia

 

[tayaway]

Lol that made me laugh what he said about Meghan and what she might have seen. How was she meant to have seen anything? she wasnt even around and actually he is one Royal she supposedly got on with. Logically though if they was going to call anyone why not call his daughters? they can ask about this supposed party at the pizza place and clear that up . I have to say I feel kinda sorry for them pair though being dragged into it all.

Yes, why haven't his daughters spoken about the lovely time they spent at the pizza place? [eta: whoops, apparently Beatrice has spoken about it and can't remember?] Is it true, did they enjoy a pie, or did he throw them under the bus? I felt bad for his daughter, Beatrice, who birthed his granddaughter while he hid out at Mummy's Balmoral retreat, avoiding legal papers. The wee one was 2 weeks old before PA dared leave!

 

[otto]

Yes, why haven't his daughters spoken about the lovely time they spent at the pizza place? Is it true, did they enjoy a pie, or did he throw them under the bus? I felt bad for his daughter, Beatrice, who birthed his granddaughter while he hid out at Mummy's Balmoral retreat, avoiding legal papers. The wee one was 2 weeks old before PA dared leave!

Was the Pizza place somehow related to Princess Eugenies's birthday in March?

 

[tayaway]

Was the Pizza place somehow related to Princess Eugenies's birthday in March?

March 10th. Apparently it was for Princess Beatrice. If any WS member needs to start the New Year off with a good laugh, I strongly encourage you to give this Dec 2020 Daily Mail article about the pizza alibi a read. Includes photos of pizza joint, floor plans of GM's London home, PA's security detail, royal staff... It's very thorough, very.

WORLD EXCLUSIVE - Prince Andrew's sex slave alibi falls apart: Explosive dossier blows a hole in 'Pizza Express' excuse, and shows he had a manicure booked on day Virginia Roberts claims she slept with him... but investigation questions her story too...

Princess Beatrice has 'absolutely no recollection' of the Pizza Express birthday party her father has claimed to have attended;..

The Duchess of York was in the United States promoting chinaware to pay off her huge personal debts when Andrew is alleged to have bedded Miss Roberts...

[PA:] 'I was with the children and I'd taken Beatrice to a Pizza Express in Woking for a party at, I suppose, sort of 4pm or 5pm in the afternoon,' he said. When asked why he would remember a meal at Pizza Express 18 years later, he said: 'Because going to Pizza Express in Woking is an unusual thing for me to do, a very unusual thing for me to do ... I've only been to Woking a couple of times and I remember it weirdly distinctly.

'As soon as somebody reminded me of it, I went, 'Oh yes, I remember that'.'

Apparently VRG's account of any action that took place between her and PA in GM's bathroom is also suspect:

So the Mail conducted our own inquiries. We have found a floorplan of the bathroom, taken from a 1987 planning application. We have also had access to much more recent images of the room.

There are two observations. One is that the bathroom is indeed 'small', as both sides agree; cramped, if one wished to perform anything other than solo ablutions.

The second? There is not a free-standing Victorian bath tub in the middle of the room, as described by Miss Roberts, in either iteration of the bathroom designs...

We have also received testimony from an old acquaintance of Maxwell's who said: 'I have visited the property on several occasions over the years. Even by the standards of a small mews house, the bathroom would be described as compact. There is no more than a couple of inches between the lavatory, sink and bath . . . to manoeuvre.'

[edit: formatting - argh!]

 

[Dotta]

"Pizza alibi", even if true, is irrelevant because of the time (afternoon).
Going to the club happens in the evening/at night.
He returned to the Palace in the wee hours (afair I read).
Also, the "action" in the bathroom happened in the bath tub itself.

 

[tayaway]

"Pizza alibi", even if true, is irrelevant because of the time (afternoon).
Going to the club happens in the evening/at night.
He returned to the Palace in the wee hours (afair I read).
Also, the "action" in the bathroom happened in the bath tub itself.

Dotta, it's a long article, but if you read it, you'll see that the DM did their due diligence [edit: correction: it was 2 members of GM's legal team who actually got inside the tub.] It's not big enough for the er, action.

eta: Yes, your observations about the pizza party time not lining up with the post club hours seem spot on.