Haha
Who knows what skeletons in vast cupboards/wardrobes they have encountered?
Last edited by a moderator:
UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002
- Thread starter zwiebel
- Start date
- Status
Who knows what skeletons in vast cupboards/wardrobes they have encountered?
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2015
- Messages
- 8,843
- Reaction score
- 44,051
The Law and Crime article has been updated:
Attorney Mitchell Epner, a former federal prosecutor who led intake on sex-trafficking cases in the District of New Jersey in 2003 and 2004, marveled at the breadth of the agreement.
“This is an extraordinarily broad release that, on its face, releases any claims that Ms. Giuffre Roberts has against anyone that she might have been able to sue as a result of sexual abuse by Epstein,” noted Epner, who is now of counsel with the firm Rottenberg Lipman Rich PC. “It releases all claims she ‘ever had or now ha(s) for, upon, or by reason of any matter … (whether known or unknown) from the beginning of the world to the day of this release.’”
“So, if Prince Andrew had run Virginia Giuffre Roberts over in a hit-and-run, that would be released too,” Epner added.
Prince Andrew’s attorney did not immediately respond to Law&Crime’s emails requesting comment.
Long-Secret Jeffrey Epstein Settlement at Issue in Lawsuit Against Prince Andrew Made Public for First Time
Attorney Mitchell Epner, a former federal prosecutor who led intake on sex-trafficking cases in the District of New Jersey in 2003 and 2004, marveled at the breadth of the agreement.
“This is an extraordinarily broad release that, on its face, releases any claims that Ms. Giuffre Roberts has against anyone that she might have been able to sue as a result of sexual abuse by Epstein,” noted Epner, who is now of counsel with the firm Rottenberg Lipman Rich PC. “It releases all claims she ‘ever had or now ha(s) for, upon, or by reason of any matter … (whether known or unknown) from the beginning of the world to the day of this release.’”
“So, if Prince Andrew had run Virginia Giuffre Roberts over in a hit-and-run, that would be released too,” Epner added.
Prince Andrew’s attorney did not immediately respond to Law&Crime’s emails requesting comment.
Long-Secret Jeffrey Epstein Settlement at Issue in Lawsuit Against Prince Andrew Made Public for First Time
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
- Messages
- 972
- Reaction score
- 5,336
If the 2009 settlement agreement barred Virginia from any further claims how was she able to receive funds from the Epstein Victim's Funds and how was she able to get a settlement from Maxwell in the defamation suit ?
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 42,908
- Reaction score
- 126,819
Dershowitz relied on this legal agreement to stop Giuffre's action against him. She withdrew the action. Dershowitz countersued, and that action is ongoing.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 42,908
- Reaction score
- 126,819
I'm not convinced that she was allowed to receive funds from the Epstein Victim's Fund. I think she made an application as a Jane Doe, but that it was withdrawn. I'd have to look for the links again, but that's what I recall.
As for a settlement with Maxwell, we don't know the details of that - only vague comments in some media reports that she received compensation from Maxwell.
What action against Dershowitz did Guiffre withdraw?
Her lawyers and Dershowitz each withdrew claims against each other then she filed a suit against Dershowitz and he countered.
The defamation lawsuits stemmed from claims that the woman, Virginia Giuffre, made in another court in December 2014 that she was forced as a girl to have sex with Dershowitz, the UK’s Prince Andrew, and other men.
Giuffre was not a party to the defamation lawsuits or the settlement. A spokesman for the law firm of Boies, Schiller & Flexner, separate lawyers for her, said in a statement on Friday that she stands by her accusations.
Two of Giuffre’s attorneys, Brad Edwards and Paul Cassell, had sued Dershowitz for defamation in a Broward County, Florida, state court after Dershowitz accused them of acting unethically. Dershowitz counter-sued.
As part of a settlement on Friday, Dershowitz withdrew his accusation that they acted unethically, and Edwards and Cassell said it was a mistake to have filed the accusations against Dershowitz.
They added in a separate court filing on Friday that their mistake was tactical and that Giuffre stood by the accusations.
Defamation lawsuits involving U.S. lawyer Dershowitz end in settlement
Her lawyers and Dershowitz each withdrew claims against each other then she filed a suit against Dershowitz and he countered.
The defamation lawsuits stemmed from claims that the woman, Virginia Giuffre, made in another court in December 2014 that she was forced as a girl to have sex with Dershowitz, the UK’s Prince Andrew, and other men.
Giuffre was not a party to the defamation lawsuits or the settlement. A spokesman for the law firm of Boies, Schiller & Flexner, separate lawyers for her, said in a statement on Friday that she stands by her accusations.
Two of Giuffre’s attorneys, Brad Edwards and Paul Cassell, had sued Dershowitz for defamation in a Broward County, Florida, state court after Dershowitz accused them of acting unethically. Dershowitz counter-sued.
As part of a settlement on Friday, Dershowitz withdrew his accusation that they acted unethically, and Edwards and Cassell said it was a mistake to have filed the accusations against Dershowitz.
They added in a separate court filing on Friday that their mistake was tactical and that Giuffre stood by the accusations.
Defamation lawsuits involving U.S. lawyer Dershowitz end in settlement
Last edited:
Out of curiousity what happens if he wins?
Ok that article was updated six years ago....this one is from November 2019. How true it is I dont know Alan Dershowitz sues accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre (nypost.com)
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 42,908
- Reaction score
- 126,819
I thought I had read that she withdrew the action, but I can't find the link anymore. The media is saturated with so many stories about Epstein, Maxwell and Giuffre at this time that specific details are harder to locate.
Perhaps she is still pursuing an action against Dershowitz.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2018
- Messages
- 9,430
- Reaction score
- 72,858
Epstein lawyer Alan Dershowitz says Virginia Giuffre could now face sex crime charges | Daily Mail Online
At the start of Dershowitz's segment, the Fox News host pointed out that the lawyer had 'once represented Epstein and is currently being sued by Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre for defamation' and that the Professor denies all wrongdoing and is in fact counter-suing Giuffre.
This came in stark contrast to his appearance on BBC News hours before, where critics slammed the channel for interviewing him on the subject without giving any context.
Dershowitz told the British public broadcaster that the New York sex abuse case against Prince Andrew brought by Ms Giuffre had been was weakened because prosecutors in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial failed to call his accuser as a witness.
But critics pointed out Mr Dershowitz is also accused of sexual abuse by Ms Roberts, said that taints his opinion on the case and slammed the BBC for interviewing him on the subject without giving any context.
At the start of Dershowitz's segment, the Fox News host pointed out that the lawyer had 'once represented Epstein and is currently being sued by Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre for defamation' and that the Professor denies all wrongdoing and is in fact counter-suing Giuffre.
This came in stark contrast to his appearance on BBC News hours before, where critics slammed the channel for interviewing him on the subject without giving any context.
Dershowitz told the British public broadcaster that the New York sex abuse case against Prince Andrew brought by Ms Giuffre had been was weakened because prosecutors in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial failed to call his accuser as a witness.
But critics pointed out Mr Dershowitz is also accused of sexual abuse by Ms Roberts, said that taints his opinion on the case and slammed the BBC for interviewing him on the subject without giving any context.
Hmmm...
They run in circles around each other.
This case seems bottomless, with many layers, what the public knows is only the tip of an iceberg, in my opinion.
But maybe it is better to remain oblivious.
Curiosity and the cat come to mind
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 42,908
- Reaction score
- 126,819
I have never understood why other participants in the trafficking of a 14 year old to Epstein are excluded from prosecution. At least one other participant benefited from the money the 14 year old received from Epstein.
This is one of the reasons that I find everything about Epstein and everyone associated with him hard to understand or make sense of. We have the fact that victims of trauma will have faulty memory. That's an admitted fact of trauma. For example, Giuffre misremembered that she was 17 rather than 15 when she met Epstein. That's buried somewhere in the legal documents. Trauma causes those sorts of memory issues.
Trauma memory issues mixed with denials and inconsistent application of law - bit of a mess to understand.
This is one of the reasons that I find everything about Epstein and everyone associated with him hard to understand or make sense of. We have the fact that victims of trauma will have faulty memory. That's an admitted fact of trauma. For example, Giuffre misremembered that she was 17 rather than 15 when she met Epstein. That's buried somewhere in the legal documents. Trauma causes those sorts of memory issues.
Trauma memory issues mixed with denials and inconsistent application of law - bit of a mess to understand.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 42,908
- Reaction score
- 126,819
Just noticed that I spoke dates backwards in the above comment.
"For example, Giuffre misremembered that she was 15 rather than 17 when she met Epstein."
She was 2 years older than she initially reported. Work records were used to prove that she mis-remembered due to trauma. Trauma related memory deficit, across the board denials, and financial compensation requests since 2009 - 12 years ago, irregularities in who is held responsible. Messy.
"For example, Giuffre misremembered that she was 15 rather than 17 when she met Epstein."
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
- Messages
- 972
- Reaction score
- 5,336
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
BBM
Child Sex Trafficking is prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 1591. This statute makes it a federal offense to knowingly recruit, entice, harbor, transport, provide, obtain, or maintain a minor (defined as someone under 18 years of age) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that the victim is a minor and would be caused to engage in a commercial sex act. “Commercial sex act” is defined very broadly to include “any sex act, on account of which anything of value is given to or received by any person.” In other words, it is illegal both to offer and to obtain a child, and cause that child to engage in any kind of sexual activity in exchange for anything of value, whether it be money, goods, personal benefit, in-kind favors, or some other kind of benefit. Section 1591 also makes it a crime for individuals to participate in a business venture that obtains minors and causes them to engage in commercial sex acts.
Section 1591 is called “Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion.” Most people think of “trafficking” as involving movement across state or international borders. However, Section 1591 does not require proof that either the defendant or victim crossed state or international lines.
When the victim is a minor, Section 1591 does not require proof that the defendant used force, threats of force, fraud, or coercion, or any combination of those means, to cause the minor to engage in a commercial sex act.
Citizen's Guide To U.S. Federal Law On Child Sex Trafficking
BBM
Child Sex Trafficking is prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 1591. This statute makes it a federal offense to knowingly recruit, entice, harbor, transport, provide, obtain, or maintain a minor (defined as someone under 18 years of age) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that the victim is a minor and would be caused to engage in a commercial sex act. “Commercial sex act” is defined very broadly to include “any sex act, on account of which anything of value is given to or received by any person.” In other words, it is illegal both to offer and to obtain a child, and cause that child to engage in any kind of sexual activity in exchange for anything of value, whether it be money, goods, personal benefit, in-kind favors, or some other kind of benefit. Section 1591 also makes it a crime for individuals to participate in a business venture that obtains minors and causes them to engage in commercial sex acts.
Section 1591 is called “Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion.” Most people think of “trafficking” as involving movement across state or international borders. However, Section 1591 does not require proof that either the defendant or victim crossed state or international lines.
When the victim is a minor, Section 1591 does not require proof that the defendant used force, threats of force, fraud, or coercion, or any combination of those means, to cause the minor to engage in a commercial sex act.
Citizen's Guide To U.S. Federal Law On Child Sex Trafficking
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 42,908
- Reaction score
- 126,819
Regarding harbouring, if the victim is free to leave, to come and go, to maintain a life independent of "trafficking", is that harbouring?
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
- Messages
- 972
- Reaction score
- 5,336
Re harboring and Virginia being free to come and go - Virginia and the other girls were teenagers. They were groomed, manipulated, coerced. They were intimated by Epstein and Maxwell intimated by the powerful people associated with Epstein and Maxwell, they were intimated by his wealth. Many of Epstein's victims say they were/felt threatened -one example of Epstein's power was during the Florida Epstein investigation Epstein's attorneys hired private investigators to follow and stalk the victims.
The victims were teenagers...the adult staff testified in court about the rules of the house Maxwell had.. the adults were intimated by Epstein and Maxwell . The victims were not physically restrained - they were mentally restrained.
The victims were COERCED, MANIPULATED AND GROOMED to do exactly what Epstein and Maxwell told them to do.
The victims were teenagers...the adult staff testified in court about the rules of the house Maxwell had.. the adults were intimated by Epstein and Maxwell . The victims were not physically restrained - they were mentally restrained.
The victims were COERCED, MANIPULATED AND GROOMED to do exactly what Epstein and Maxwell told them to do.
Unfortunately, as we see, this concept is extremely hard for some to understand. “Why didn’t she just leave” is classic blaming of the manipulated, groomed and coerced victim.
GoBuckeyes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2016
- Messages
- 5,191
- Reaction score
- 30,344
Was he pointing his finger when he said that?
Yes, now I remember where I've heard that line.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2018
- Messages
- 9,430
- Reaction score
- 72,858
Prince Andrew accuser Virginia Giuffre’s legal deal with Jeffrey Epstein released
BBM
The unsealed settlement states that upon receipt of the stipulated sum, Giuffre, referred to under her maiden name, agrees to “remise, release, acquit, satisfy and forever discharge the said second parties and any other person or entity who could have been included as a potential defendant … from all, and all manner of, action and actions of Virginia Roberts, including state or federal, cause and causes of action”.
Andrew is not mentioned. Nor is the lawyer Alan Dershowitz, who Giuffre has accused of sexual misconduct facilitated by Epstein, which he has repeatedly denied.
A representative for Giuffre’s lawyers said the release was “irrelevant to Ms Giuffre’s claim against Prince Andrew” as it “does not mention Prince Andrew”.
“He did not even know about it. He could not have been a ‘potential defendant’ in the settled case against Jeffrey Epstein both because he was not subject to jurisdiction in Florida and because the Florida case involved federal claims to which he was not a part. The actual parties to the release have made clear that Prince Andrew was not covered by it.
BBM
The unsealed settlement states that upon receipt of the stipulated sum, Giuffre, referred to under her maiden name, agrees to “remise, release, acquit, satisfy and forever discharge the said second parties and any other person or entity who could have been included as a potential defendant … from all, and all manner of, action and actions of Virginia Roberts, including state or federal, cause and causes of action”.
Andrew is not mentioned. Nor is the lawyer Alan Dershowitz, who Giuffre has accused of sexual misconduct facilitated by Epstein, which he has repeatedly denied.
A representative for Giuffre’s lawyers said the release was “irrelevant to Ms Giuffre’s claim against Prince Andrew” as it “does not mention Prince Andrew”.
“He did not even know about it. He could not have been a ‘potential defendant’ in the settled case against Jeffrey Epstein both because he was not subject to jurisdiction in Florida and because the Florida case involved federal claims to which he was not a part. The actual parties to the release have made clear that Prince Andrew was not covered by it.
- Status
Online statistics
- Members online
- 95
- Guests online
- 3,128
- Total visitors
- 3,223