GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #16

[CoverMeCagney]

is it true that she may be out in 8 1/2 years? :stormingmad:


I have now the 49 pages of this thread to read plus the last 2 pages from the previous thread. you have been busy here while I was having a tantrum :gaah:

I've just realised you can have different amounts of posts per page - I have mine set at 50 posts per page, you must have yours at 20, I couldn't work out how you had 49 pages to read, that would be 2&half THREADS for me! Happy reading!

 

[Cherwell]

I now turn to the sentence for Shauna Hoare. It is plain that her involvement in the death of Becky is the most serious matter for which she is to be sentenced. There were a number of different ways in which the sentence for the range of offences might be calculated. One way would have been to impose consecutive sentences for the separate criminality disclosed for example by making the criminal conspiracy, by participating in the kidnap when Becky was murdered by Mr Matthews at a time when any sober and reasonable person would have appreciated that harm might come to Becky, for lying to the police about where Becky was, for taking part in the dismemberment of the body, and for possessing the stun gun, while having regard to the issue of totality. However in my judgment it is appropriate in this case to take the sentence for the manslaughter of Becky, which was the most serious offence given the harm caused to Becky and her family, and to impose concurrent sentences for the other offences.

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-nathan-matthews-and-shauna-hoare

But why ???? :tantrum:

 

[ChuckieD]

I know, I backpacked round Europe in the 90s and felt safer there than in UK cities, as we only had the IRA terrorist threat back then.

I just said to hubby 'I almost miss the IRA, at least they gave warning'.

 

[Clio]

is it true that she may be out in 8 1/2 years?

The jury acquitted SH of murder but found her guilty of manslaughter. The judge must therefore follow sentencing guidelines for manslaughter. He could have given SH a discretionary life sentence but he didn't. Here is his reasoning

"As to the sentence for manslaughter the first issue is whether I should impose a discretionary life sentence. In my judgment this is not a case for a discretionary life sentence. Shauna Hoare was a person of previous good character. Her involvement in these offences was very much a product of the nature of the relationship with Nathan Matthews."

Instead he gave her a determinate sentence of 17 years as follows

In these circumstances I will impose a determinate sentence for manslaughter which reflects all of the offending by Shauna Hoare in this case and reflects her mitigation. This includes the matters set out above, including her background, and the fact that she has suffered the punishment of losing contact with her daughter. I have been assisted by the authorities of R v Appleby [2010] 2 Cr App R (S) 46, and R v Webster [2015] EWCA Crim 1195, but I must bear in mind that the jury convicted Shauna Hoare only on the basis of participation in the kidnap and the realisation of harm rather than an intention to cause harm. In my judgment a determinate sentence of 17 years is the right sentence for Shauna Hoare to reflect all of the criminality in this case and the mitigation.

Both above quotes from https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-nathan-matthews-and-shauna-hoare

A determinate sentence is of fixed length where the person spends the first half of the sentence in prison and the second half in the community ‘on licence’. Hence 8.5 years.
https://www.gov.uk/types-of-prison-sentence/determinate-prison-sentences-fixed-length-of-time

 

[cottonweaver]

"In relation to Ms Hoare, the sentence was, as we predicted, a very lengthy one. Given that there was no intention to kill or cause really serious harm, the sentence is longer that we would have thought.

Having said that, given that the Judge heard all the facts in this high profile case, we doubt that the Court of Appeal would interfere with the sentence."

From article, kindly linked above.

http://ukcriminallawblog.com/becky-watts-murder-sentencing/

"This blog was set up by Dan, Sara and Lyndon after a discussion on Twitter concerning inaccurate reports of criminal cases in the press, the lack of public understanding of the criminal justice system and the number of unlawful sentences handed out by the courts"

 

[CoverMeCagney]

From article, kindly linked above.

http://ukcriminallawblog.com/becky-watts-murder-sentencing/

"This blog was set up by Dan, Sara and Lyndon after a discussion on Twitter concerning inaccurate reports of criminal cases in the press, the lack of public understanding of the criminal justice system and the number of unlawful sentences handed out by the courts"

Would you mind if I post that to the "outside the US" thread (which I can't find right now!) that Bessie set up yesterday?

EDIT: sure you won't mind so have done it anyway http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Court-Cases-Laws-and-Policies-Outside-the-U-S

 

[Cherwell]

Do you know which band/tariff the 33 relates to? ie. the significance ?

ETA - LOL , no need to answer that Cherwell, another poster has just posted something constructive which informs the following. My point was about the "uplift", that nudged him over to age 61 :

"We said yesterday that Mr Matthews would probably have a 30 year starting point, which is what, in fact, the Judge took. There was some speculation that he would get a whole life tariff, but the Judge gave good reasons why this should not be.

Given the circumstances of the case, it is hard to argue with the uplift imposed, and whilst Mr Matthews will probably appeal (nothing to lose really), we doubt that he will get far."
http://ukcriminallawblog.com/becky-watts-murder-sentencing/

Yes, I think this link posted by Clio gives an insight into how it's worked out (although it doesn't include the full sentencing remarks). https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-nathan-matthews-and-shauna-hoare
They add on a bit for this, then take off a bit for that, one thing might cancel out another, and so on.

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes, I think this link posted by Clio gives an insight into how it's worked out (although it doesn't include the full sentencing remarks). https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-nathan-matthews-and-shauna-hoare
They add on a bit for this, then take off a bit for that, one thing might cancel out another, and so on.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/web_seriousness_guideline.pdf

@CovermeCagney - that also might be a good link to carry over to your thread? technical manual but still sheds light on all the intrinsic and extraneous factors to mitigate/aggravate

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes, I think this link posted by Clio gives an insight into how it's worked out (although it doesn't include the full sentencing remarks). https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-nathan-matthews-and-shauna-hoare
They add on a bit for this, then take off a bit for that, one thing might cancel out another, and so on.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/web_seriousness_guideline.pdf

@CovermeCagney - that also might be a good link to carry over to your thread? technical manual but still sheds light on all the intrinsic and extraneous factors to mitigate/aggravate

Ditto, basic primer but might be a useful resource for your thread? ( Lots of other informative tabs there too, written at layperson level.)
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/about-sentencing/sentencing-myths/

 

[Beesknees]

I don't agree with mitigation factors at all. For any serious crimes' criminals, wherever the place or country!

The only thing in my opinion was to check if the charged for the crimes had any kind of mental impairment or handicap. That was ok.

But for common persons with no mental problems, adult persons that know right from wrong, I can't agree with mitigating factors! Why would they have them if they know right from wrong, whatever was their social situation or their childhood?!

For example the judge is saying that sh had as mitigation factor the fact that she was just punished being deprieved of her daughter. But it could be both ways!

The judge could say 'because sh is already a mother and was even pregnant at the time of the crime she should have more compassion, she should be more kind hearted, she should have more simpathy for Becky. She too was a woman and also a mother herself!'

And, she is deprieved of her daughter by her own fault! She is the only one to blame for that! She didn't think of her daughter when she was comiting the crimes! Neither before or during or after!

 

[sar2them1984]

I didn't see anything like that. He did make a general comment about it being inhumane to take a newborn baby away from its mother, so maybe somebody read too much into it.

Really? Did you not read the whole conversation??

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Hexenb]

Its understandable, isn't it. To be honest, I can't get my head around her saying publicly that she still loves him. I'd keep that to myself if it were my son. I know we can't even begin to put ourselves in her position, but I can totally understand why Becky's mum would find it difficult to see/speak to AG now. I think it would be easier if she had disowned NM or come out in public and said that she never wanted to see him again. Despite the horrendous things he did, AG still has her child, Becky's mum doesn't - I guess it is as simple as that.

I just would not want to be in any of their shoes ever I think as outsiders looking in we can see why each one has their own pain for their own reasons, TW must feel resentment to AG, AG her son killing Becky but, still loving him DG his partners son who killed his baby the emotions all of them are going through must be horrendous, so dreadfully sad

 

[CoverMeCagney]

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/web_seriousness_guideline.pdf

@CovermeCagney - that also might be a good link to carry over to your thread? technical manual but still sheds light on all the intrinsic and extraneous factors to mitigate/aggravate

Ditto, basic primer but might be a useful resource for your thread? ( Lots of other informative tabs there too, written at layperson level.)
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/about-sentencing/sentencing-myths/

It's not my thread lol, I'm on my phone now and struggle to copy paste and flick between pages, please will you do it

 

[Beesknees]

I've just realised you can have different amounts of posts per page - I have mine set at 50 posts per page, you must have yours at 20, I couldn't work out how you had 49 pages to read, that would be 2&half THREADS for me! Happy reading!

I didn't know we could change it! I was checking now that you said that and I don't have even 20 per page. I have only 15 posts! The Reading is the same, but at least we don't have to change page as often. Ohhh the things we learn everyday :jawdrop:

Thank you, CoverMeCagney Where can I change it?

 

[Cherwell]

Really? Did you not read the whole conversation??

I don't know, I get confused by the structure of FB convos sometimes. :dunno:
Maybe there was more added after I read that.

 

[Ellmau]

I'm disappointed with the sentencing, particularly SH's (but not all that surprised about the latter).

 

[sar2them1984]

I don't know, I get confused by the structure of FB convos sometimes. :dunno:
Maybe there was more added after I read that.

Haha no worries, realised my post sounded harsh. Apologies I was trying to get caught up on here and keep track of the Paris Situation ;-(

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Haha no worries, realised my post sounded harsh. Apologies I was trying to get caught up on here and keep track of the Paris Situation ;-(

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

At least 140 dead in Paris. Devastating

 

[Beesknees]

Fellows Websleuthers,

The compilation for Becky's Trial including today's sentencing is now complete.

All from today is neat in document nº 5 'Sentencing'

You can find it here http://1drv.ms/1Q8x2tp

It was my grain of sand for Becky :star2: the 16 year old girl who will be forever in my

memory...


Good night for you all, we'll go on meeting around here.

A big warm hug from Portugal :hug:

Beesknees :bee:



In Memory of Rebecca Marie Watts

June 3 1998 - February 19 2015 :blue:

 

[Gigi-G]

Arrrgghhh been trying to follow posts. But the whole half left side of my face is swollen like a balloon. Including my eye.. I suffer with Sinuses. So I think it's hitting me with a vengeance. Not had a bad bout of this in over a year. Quite concerning when I can look down n see my swelling. N my bottom eyelashes tickling my swollen eye. Woke up to hubby playing Candy Crush saga.... :/
(He can't sleep lol) the fact that he spoils our pup Bruce. By letting him up on the bed (he's dad's dog!) And I keep kicking him off. (The dog not hubby... heaven forbid I have been tempted &#128519
Hubby moans Bruce is a chubby slug. N that Bruce ' s fur tickles... no sympathy from me... I've plenty of room Haha!

Anyways enough of me rambling.
Had time to calm down now. NM'S sentence. I'm okay with. And SH'S I read somewhere that she WILL have to serve the 17 years . I'll try to find the link. Just bare with me. I'm a one eyed stressed person today ♡ #justiceforBecky