- Joined
- Oct 4, 2011
- Messages
- 2,689
- Reaction score
- 5,851
I expect Williams will try and pin it on Walsh. Create enough doubt about who actually did it to confuse the jury?
GUILTY UK - Sadie Hartley, 60, murdered, Helmshore, Lancs, 14 Jan 2016 #1
- Thread starter Alyce
- Start date
- Status
She will try, apparently, but I don't see any chance of it succeeding.
As well as a whole heap of evidence, there is motive. Not necessary to have motive, but helpful.
As an aside, I'm not impressed that IJ was asking about Sadie's will the day he found out about her murder. Not suggesting he had any involvement whatsoever, but humans never cease to amaze me.
Thanks for doing the updates today Alyce.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
So far, with what we have heard, I am not impressed with IJ either. I appreciate Williams is probably lying about some stuff, but if the texts she is referring to actually exist then I think it is not showing him in a good light. I wonder if he will be called as a witness.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Chester Chronicle recap of yesterday's proceedings.
Interesting part here - from what I remember, IJ and Sadie had been in a serious relationship for 4 years.
However, this part of the article says that IJ only broke off his relationship with Williams 17 months before the murder - which is also the time that Sadie began to rent the property in Helmshore - and presumably IJ moved in with her.
This is either the reporter getting dates wrong - or it would seem that IJ was seeing both women for a length of time ?
The Crown say Williams began plotting the murder 17 months before when Mr Johnston broke off their relationship as she became ‘possessive and difficult’.
another part from the article, from one of yesterday's witnesses, talking about Williams and IJ
Mr Savery said he believed she was ‘infatuated’ with him, while he told the police she was ‘a bizarre character’, ‘unhinged’ and ‘psychotic’.
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/n...hester-woman-accused-murdering-sadie-11585280
Interesting part here - from what I remember, IJ and Sadie had been in a serious relationship for 4 years.
However, this part of the article says that IJ only broke off his relationship with Williams 17 months before the murder - which is also the time that Sadie began to rent the property in Helmshore - and presumably IJ moved in with her.
This is either the reporter getting dates wrong - or it would seem that IJ was seeing both women for a length of time ?
The Crown say Williams began plotting the murder 17 months before when Mr Johnston broke off their relationship as she became ‘possessive and difficult’.
another part from the article, from one of yesterday's witnesses, talking about Williams and IJ
Mr Savery said he believed she was ‘infatuated’ with him, while he told the police she was ‘a bizarre character’, ‘unhinged’ and ‘psychotic’.
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/n...hester-woman-accused-murdering-sadie-11585280
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Today's live updates Manchester Evening News
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Trial resumes
The court is back in session and the jury are due to hear more evidence in the trial of the Sarah WIlliams and Katrina Walsh, accused of killing Miss Williams’ love rival Sadie Hartley at her home in Rossendale.
Miss Williams and Mrs Walsh both deny the charge of murder.
Our first witness of the morning is Kerry Williams, no relation to Sarah.
However she got to know her after they worked together at Lloyds Banking group and also through their shared passion for horses.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
The court is back in session and the jury are due to hear more evidence in the trial of the Sarah WIlliams and Katrina Walsh, accused of killing Miss Williams’ love rival Sadie Hartley at her home in Rossendale.
Miss Williams and Mrs Walsh both deny the charge of murder.
Our first witness of the morning is Kerry Williams, no relation to Sarah.
However she got to know her after they worked together at Lloyds Banking group and also through their shared passion for horses.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Witness: Williams was living in some sort of fantasy world
Kerry Williams says despite being in a sexual relationship with David Hardwick, Sarah would “often talk about other men.”
She says that included talk about a man she now knows to be Ian Johnston.
She says “I was aware Sarah was seeing, dating, having a sexual relationship with Ian.
“I was aware he was with someone, a rich lady, but she said it didn’t matter because he was going to leave her for Sarah.”
Tony Cross QC, defending Walsh says to Kerry Williams “you formed the view she was living in some sort of fantasy world didn’t you?” to which she replies “yes.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
Kerry Williams says despite being in a sexual relationship with David Hardwick, Sarah would “often talk about other men.”
She says that included talk about a man she now knows to be Ian Johnston.
She says “I was aware Sarah was seeing, dating, having a sexual relationship with Ian.
“I was aware he was with someone, a rich lady, but she said it didn’t matter because he was going to leave her for Sarah.”
Tony Cross QC, defending Walsh says to Kerry Williams “you formed the view she was living in some sort of fantasy world didn’t you?” to which she replies “yes.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Witness: Williams said she “had a new man”
The next witness is Michaela Burns, who tells the court she has known Sarah Williams for around eight years.
She says of Sarah’s relationship with David Hardwick: “She wasn’t shy about saying she was financially dependent on him.”
She says Sarah bought a second home whilst with him, had two horses and went on regularly holidays including a couple of ski trips a year.
She says Sarah told her that she and David were having problems as “they wanted different things.”
“She wanted a baby and he didn’t want one” she adds.
Miss Burns says in December 2014 Sarah told her she “had a new man” referring to Ian Johnston.
She says Sarah told her “he was with an older lady, a rich lady and that she was buying him.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
The next witness is Michaela Burns, who tells the court she has known Sarah Williams for around eight years.
She says of Sarah’s relationship with David Hardwick: “She wasn’t shy about saying she was financially dependent on him.”
She says Sarah bought a second home whilst with him, had two horses and went on regularly holidays including a couple of ski trips a year.
She says Sarah told her that she and David were having problems as “they wanted different things.”
“She wanted a baby and he didn’t want one” she adds.
Miss Burns says in December 2014 Sarah told her she “had a new man” referring to Ian Johnston.
She says Sarah told her “he was with an older lady, a rich lady and that she was buying him.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
She used me. I have been betrayed'
We’re now hearing from Ann Riley, who got to know Katrina Walsh, known as Kit, after having horse riding lessons from her.
She says Kit mentioned going a trip to Germany.
The prosecution have earlier alleged that Miss Williams and Mrs Walsh travelled to Germany in December 2015 to buy the stun gun used in the attack on Sadie Hartley.
Ms Riley also says Mrs Walsh had once told her Sarah Williams had “asked her to bring something through customs which she shouldn’t have.”
Ms Riley is now recounting a conversation she had with Kit Walsh on 18th January this year, four days after Sadie Hartley’s death.
She says Mrs Walsh said: “If a friend asked you to help them, then would you?
“If a friend asked you to buy some flowers you would?”
She adds that Kit said: “She used me. I have been betrayed.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
We’re now hearing from Ann Riley, who got to know Katrina Walsh, known as Kit, after having horse riding lessons from her.
She says Kit mentioned going a trip to Germany.
The prosecution have earlier alleged that Miss Williams and Mrs Walsh travelled to Germany in December 2015 to buy the stun gun used in the attack on Sadie Hartley.
Ms Riley also says Mrs Walsh had once told her Sarah Williams had “asked her to bring something through customs which she shouldn’t have.”
Ms Riley is now recounting a conversation she had with Kit Walsh on 18th January this year, four days after Sadie Hartley’s death.
She says Mrs Walsh said: “If a friend asked you to help them, then would you?
“If a friend asked you to buy some flowers you would?”
She adds that Kit said: “She used me. I have been betrayed.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910
First witness: Kerry Williams, horseriding friend of Sarah Williams, say she would often talk about male partners.
Kerry Williams says Sarah Williams was convinced Ian Johnston would leave Sadie Hartley. Relationship was "progressing".
Defending, Tony Cross QC says Kerry Williams believed Sarah Williams was "living in a fantasy world". Witness agrees.
Another friend, Michaela Burns, recalls Sarah Williams saying Ian Johnston was only with Sadie Hartley "for the money".
Third witness Ann Riley says Katrina Walsh gave impression her and friend 'Sarah' were a couple who holidayed together.
Mrs Riley said Katrina Walsh confessed to memory probs and needed to write diary entries to recall events.
Mrs Riley says Katrina appeared frail and worried after Sarah Williams' arrest.
And witness says Katrina asked her if she would take flowers or give a lift to a friend if asked.
Later that day Katrina is alleged to have said: "She has used me. I was betrayed."
Court heard Walsh told Mrs Riley she had never been in trouble with police and "couldn't look innocent".
Tony Cross QC recalls Walsh's anxiety that Williams would tamper with diaries while pair watched films together
Fourth witness Louise Roberts recalls how 'stressed' Walsh was after arrest of Williams at her stables.
Walsh allegedly said: "I need to help her. I have to. She helped me when my husband left. She was there for me."
https://twitter.com/peter_magill
Kerry Williams says Sarah Williams was convinced Ian Johnston would leave Sadie Hartley. Relationship was "progressing".
Defending, Tony Cross QC says Kerry Williams believed Sarah Williams was "living in a fantasy world". Witness agrees.
Another friend, Michaela Burns, recalls Sarah Williams saying Ian Johnston was only with Sadie Hartley "for the money".
Third witness Ann Riley says Katrina Walsh gave impression her and friend 'Sarah' were a couple who holidayed together.
Mrs Riley said Katrina Walsh confessed to memory probs and needed to write diary entries to recall events.
Mrs Riley says Katrina appeared frail and worried after Sarah Williams' arrest.
And witness says Katrina asked her if she would take flowers or give a lift to a friend if asked.
Later that day Katrina is alleged to have said: "She has used me. I was betrayed."
Court heard Walsh told Mrs Riley she had never been in trouble with police and "couldn't look innocent".
Tony Cross QC recalls Walsh's anxiety that Williams would tamper with diaries while pair watched films together
Fourth witness Louise Roberts recalls how 'stressed' Walsh was after arrest of Williams at her stables.
Walsh allegedly said: "I need to help her. I have to. She helped me when my husband left. She was there for me."
https://twitter.com/peter_magill
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Witness: Walsh was 'stressed, crying and agitated' three days after Saide's death
Mrs Riley says Kit Walsh once told her she was worried Sarah Williams might move, or tamper with her diaries.
She says Kit said she “would write everything down unless Sarah told her not to.”
The next witness is Louise Roberts who has known Kit for around seven years, after also having riding lessons from her.
She describes her as “polite and friendly.”
She says she saw Kit on Sunday 17th January, three days after Sadie Hartley’s death.
She says Kit was “very stressed, crying and agitated.”
She says Mrs Walsh said: “Sarah, they’ve arrested Sarah.
“I have got to help her.
“She helped me when my husband left.
“She was there for me.
“I have to help her. How can I help her?”
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/n...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11586514
Mrs Riley says Kit Walsh once told her she was worried Sarah Williams might move, or tamper with her diaries.
She says Kit said she “would write everything down unless Sarah told her not to.”
The next witness is Louise Roberts who has known Kit for around seven years, after also having riding lessons from her.
She describes her as “polite and friendly.”
She says she saw Kit on Sunday 17th January, three days after Sadie Hartley’s death.
She says Kit was “very stressed, crying and agitated.”
She says Mrs Walsh said: “Sarah, they’ve arrested Sarah.
“I have got to help her.
“She helped me when my husband left.
“She was there for me.
“I have to help her. How can I help her?”
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/n...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11586514
[h=3]Walsh told friend she lost her hair after being attacked by ex-partner[/h][FONT="]Now in the witness box is Kate Hodgenia, who had known Kit Walsh since she was a teenager through her love of horses.
She says Kit told her she had told her she begun to lose her hair after suffering brain damage after being beaten up by her ex-partner.
Tony Cross, defending Walsh, however asks Miss Hodgenia if she did in fact tell her that and didn’t instead say it was due to her suffering from breast cancer.
She says no.
The court has now adjourned for a short break.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910[/FONT]
She says Kit told her she had told her she begun to lose her hair after suffering brain damage after being beaten up by her ex-partner.
Tony Cross, defending Walsh, however asks Miss Hodgenia if she did in fact tell her that and didn’t instead say it was due to her suffering from breast cancer.
She says no.
The court has now adjourned for a short break.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11585910[/FONT]
Prosecutor John McDermott is to read out text messages between Sarah Williams and Ian Johnston.
Jurors hear a flurry of messages as affair between Williams and Hartley develops. She urges him to leave Sadie Hartley.
Williams says she was sorry she had fallen in love with Johnston when he would not split with partner in late 2013.
Johnston insists decision on future was difficult as Sadie Hartley had been 'kind and thoughtful' to him.
Prosecution now moves onto Katrina Walsh's diaries, life set out in meticulous detail, hundreds of pages.
Jurors hear refs to 'murder plot' span from Aug 2014 to November 2015.
Walsh says Williams was "boiling over" about Johnston's approach to relationship and discussed 'murder plot' options.
https://twitter.com/peter_magill
Jurors hear a flurry of messages as affair between Williams and Hartley develops. She urges him to leave Sadie Hartley.
Williams says she was sorry she had fallen in love with Johnston when he would not split with partner in late 2013.
Johnston insists decision on future was difficult as Sadie Hartley had been 'kind and thoughtful' to him.
Prosecution now moves onto Katrina Walsh's diaries, life set out in meticulous detail, hundreds of pages.
Jurors hear refs to 'murder plot' span from Aug 2014 to November 2015.
Walsh says Williams was "boiling over" about Johnston's approach to relationship and discussed 'murder plot' options.
https://twitter.com/peter_magill
Jury shown text messages from Sarah Williams referring to herself as a psycho and telling friends the sex with Ian Johnston was amazing
More texts from Ian Johnston to Sarah Williams - 'i told you I'm in a relationship with Sadie I'm not just going to blow her out'.
Sarah Williams texted Ian Johnston ' I thought you had planned to leave her ( Sadie Hartley) because you don't love her. I must be v stupid'
Jurors read numerous messages as affair bt Williams & Hartley develops. She urges him to leave Sadie Hartley.
Jurors being told about Katrina Walsh's diary in which she records the minutiae of her life - what she eats & drinks, every detail of life
Katrina Walsh - alleged murder accomplice wrote in diary - got caught up in endless murder plots. Suggested Sarah Williams write to Sadie
Katrina Walsh described Sadie Hartley numerous times in her diary as a 'totally evil b itch'
Katrina Walsh wrote in her diary when describing being involved in murder plot ' I am unexpectedly excited by it '
https://twitter.com/ElaineWITV
More texts from Ian Johnston to Sarah Williams - 'i told you I'm in a relationship with Sadie I'm not just going to blow her out'.
Sarah Williams texted Ian Johnston ' I thought you had planned to leave her ( Sadie Hartley) because you don't love her. I must be v stupid'
Jurors read numerous messages as affair bt Williams & Hartley develops. She urges him to leave Sadie Hartley.
Jurors being told about Katrina Walsh's diary in which she records the minutiae of her life - what she eats & drinks, every detail of life
Katrina Walsh - alleged murder accomplice wrote in diary - got caught up in endless murder plots. Suggested Sarah Williams write to Sadie
Katrina Walsh described Sadie Hartley numerous times in her diary as a 'totally evil b itch'
Katrina Walsh wrote in her diary when describing being involved in murder plot ' I am unexpectedly excited by it '
https://twitter.com/ElaineWITV
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Williams' text messages to and from Ian Johnston read out
The jury are now being read a raft of text messages sent by, and to, Sarah Williams in 2013 by prosecutor John McDermott.
In one she texts Sadie’s partner Ian Johnston to say she had a “lovely time” with him and that “the sex was fantastic.”
Mr Johnston replied to her saying: “Sadie has been through hell.
“I always do my best to keep people safe.
“Sometimes I just hate who I am.”
In another Miss Williams accuses him of not showing her enough respect and says “I am just not good enough.”
She also told a pal there was “progress” with Ian who she refers to as ‘the Fireman’ given his previous job, but said “being the little psychopath I am I want to push it along.”
In one reply to Sarah, Mr Johnston says: “You knew I was seeing Sadie when this all started.
“I can’t have you coming round when all these people know Sadie.
“It’s not about you it’s about me sorry.”
In another he says: “Sadie has been very kind to me.
“I am not going to just blow her out.
“That’s just not who I am.
“This is way too heavy.”
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/n...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11586514
The jury are now being read a raft of text messages sent by, and to, Sarah Williams in 2013 by prosecutor John McDermott.
In one she texts Sadie’s partner Ian Johnston to say she had a “lovely time” with him and that “the sex was fantastic.”
Mr Johnston replied to her saying: “Sadie has been through hell.
“I always do my best to keep people safe.
“Sometimes I just hate who I am.”
In another Miss Williams accuses him of not showing her enough respect and says “I am just not good enough.”
She also told a pal there was “progress” with Ian who she refers to as ‘the Fireman’ given his previous job, but said “being the little psychopath I am I want to push it along.”
In one reply to Sarah, Mr Johnston says: “You knew I was seeing Sadie when this all started.
“I can’t have you coming round when all these people know Sadie.
“It’s not about you it’s about me sorry.”
In another he says: “Sadie has been very kind to me.
“I am not going to just blow her out.
“That’s just not who I am.
“This is way too heavy.”
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/n...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11586514
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Extracts read out from Walsh's diary
We’re now hearing from Detective Constable Byrony Midgley who examined Katrina Walsh’s diaries, which the jury are being read extracts from.
In September 2014 there is an entry which reads: “Sarah came round so got caught up in endless murder plots for Ian’s other half.”
In June 2015 there is one which reads: “We’re seriously talking of getting rid of her opponent.”
DC Midgley says the last mention of the word “murder” in the diaries is on 17th November 2015.
She says before then references to “murder” and “murder plots” are casually dropped into the middle of regular diary entries.
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/n...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11586514
We’re now hearing from Detective Constable Byrony Midgley who examined Katrina Walsh’s diaries, which the jury are being read extracts from.
In September 2014 there is an entry which reads: “Sarah came round so got caught up in endless murder plots for Ian’s other half.”
In June 2015 there is one which reads: “We’re seriously talking of getting rid of her opponent.”
DC Midgley says the last mention of the word “murder” in the diaries is on 17th November 2015.
She says before then references to “murder” and “murder plots” are casually dropped into the middle of regular diary entries.
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/n...news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11586514
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Elaine Willcox ‏@ElaineWITV 6m6 minutes ago
Katrina Walsh wrote in her diary when describing being involved in murder plot ' I am unexpectedly excited by it
Elaine Willcox ‏@ElaineWITV 3m3 minutes ago
Katrina Walsh writes Sarah Williams orders tracker online on my credit card that was ok ' I'm not going to be involved in sharp end'
Katrina Walsh wrote in her diary when describing being involved in murder plot ' I am unexpectedly excited by it
Elaine Willcox ‏@ElaineWITV 3m3 minutes ago
Katrina Walsh writes Sarah Williams orders tracker online on my credit card that was ok ' I'm not going to be involved in sharp end'
[h=1]Murder accused "so close", friends assumed they were lovers[/h]
[h=1]A court has heard two women accused of murdering a Lancashire business woman were so close - friends thought they were in a relationship.[/h]
[FONT="]This morning the court has been hearing from a friend of Katrina Walsh named Anne Riley. [/FONT]
[FONT="]She's told the jury that Katrina had always given her the impression that the pair were in a romantic relationship and would regularly holiday together. She said she had been surprised to learn shortly after the murder that Williams and Walsh were in fact just friends [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Anne went on to tell the jury that Katrina was upset, distressed and behaving unlike herself on the days following Sarah Williams's arrest for Sadie's murder. She added that she suddenly became "vulnerable, frail and almost elderly"
The court has also learnt more about the diaries police found shortly after the discovery of Sadie's body. Katrina Walsh apparently has a problem with her memory and writes everything down so as not to forget things.
Detective Constable Bryony Mitchelly of Blackburn CID took to the witness box to overview their content. She explained that Miss Walsh detailed every aspect of her life in a personal diary; even down to the food and drink she ate on a daily basis.
http://www.2br.co.uk/news/local-new...ed-so-close-friends-assumed-they-were-lovers/
[/FONT]
[h=1]A court has heard two women accused of murdering a Lancashire business woman were so close - friends thought they were in a relationship.[/h]
[FONT="]This morning the court has been hearing from a friend of Katrina Walsh named Anne Riley. [/FONT]
[FONT="]She's told the jury that Katrina had always given her the impression that the pair were in a romantic relationship and would regularly holiday together. She said she had been surprised to learn shortly after the murder that Williams and Walsh were in fact just friends [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Anne went on to tell the jury that Katrina was upset, distressed and behaving unlike herself on the days following Sarah Williams's arrest for Sadie's murder. She added that she suddenly became "vulnerable, frail and almost elderly"
The court has also learnt more about the diaries police found shortly after the discovery of Sadie's body. Katrina Walsh apparently has a problem with her memory and writes everything down so as not to forget things.
Detective Constable Bryony Mitchelly of Blackburn CID took to the witness box to overview their content. She explained that Miss Walsh detailed every aspect of her life in a personal diary; even down to the food and drink she ate on a daily basis.
http://www.2br.co.uk/news/local-new...ed-so-close-friends-assumed-they-were-lovers/
[/FONT]
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 14,025
- Reaction score
- 61,218
Elaine Willcox ‏@ElaineWITV 1m1 minute ago
Katrina Walsh wrote 'all the excitement of planning the perfect murder doesn't make for restful feelings' as she described trouble sleeping
Katrina Walsh wrote 'all the excitement of planning the perfect murder doesn't make for restful feelings' as she described trouble sleeping
- Status
Similar threads
Online statistics
- Members online
- 123
- Guests online
- 3,423
- Total visitors
- 3,546