GUILTY UK - Sadie Hartley, 60, murdered, Helmshore, Lancs, 14 Jan 2016 #1

[Tortoise]

Sorry but this bunch sound a bit slow. to me. and I don't mean in terms of time...

 

[cottonweaver]

https://twitter.com/AbanQuaynorLT

yet this correspondent is tweeting that they have to take their time, no sooner than 2pm at earliest. (Judge says)

is that cause foreperson has said they are close to a verdict?

 

[Alyce]

In our case it was a third party who had shared a taxi with the pair right after the murder, so knew what they would have been talking about. It was very frustrating.

Ah, yes, I can see the point there. That witness would surely have been very relevant.

 

[Tortoise]

good, time to make some bread. be back at 2!

 

[Alyce]

Sorry but this bunch sound a bit slow. to me. and I don't mean in terms of time...

Agree... Their questions are not impressive ( putting it politely )

 

[Alyce]

https://twitter.com/AbanQuaynorLT

yet this correspondent is tweeting that they have to take their time, no sooner than 2pm at earliest. (Judge says)

is that cause foreperson has said they are close to a verdict?

lets hope so re the verdict - perhaps Judge thinks best to get lunch out of the way, then they can go straight into verdicts afterwards

 

[krmh]

I hope the jury doesn't go soft on kit

 

[Cherwell]

Judge's questions

1) Are you sure that the first defendant stabbed Sadie Hartley to death? (Sarah Williams)

2) Are you sure that the first defendant at the time of the stabbing intended to kill Sadie Hartley or to cause really serious injury?

3) Are you sure that the second defendant stabbed Sadie Hartley to death? (Katrina Walsh)

4) Are you sure that the second defendant at the time of the stabbing intended to kill Sadie Hartley or to cause really serious injury?

5) Are you sure that the first defendant murdered Sadie Hartley by stabbing her and also that the second defendant assisted or encouraged the first defendant to kill her?

6) Are you sure that the first defendant murdered Sadie Hartley by stabbing her and also that the second defendant assisted or encouraged her to threaten or encourage unlawful violence that all reasonable people would realise would cause at least some harm?

(These were only snipped because they ran over WS's "don't quote more than 10%" rule)



If (1) is Yes, then (2) is a no-brainer!

 

[cottonweaver]

Sorry but this bunch sound a bit slow. to me. and I don't mean in terms of time...

Reminds me of the judge having to dismiss that jury in the Vicky Pryce trial as one of the many questions they asked him was were they allowed to come to a verdict based on evidence not presented in court.....

PS Don't do what I did this morning and forget to put the salt in!

Here's the link, to the 10 questions before they got sacked. ( Feel sorry for them, they got so much grief, a few were sensible questions, eg. define BARD)

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/feb/20/vicky-pryce-trial-10-questions

Question 5
Can a juror come to a verdict based on a reason that was not presented in court and has no facts or evidence to support it, either from the prosecution or defence?

 

[cottonweaver]

Judge's questions

1) Are you sure that the first defendant stabbed Sadie Hartley to death? (Sarah Williams)

2) Are you sure that the first defendant at the time of the stabbing intended to kill Sadie Hartley or to cause really serious injury?

3) Are you sure that the second defendant stabbed Sadie Hartley to death? (Katrina Walsh)

4) Are you sure that the second defendant at the time of the stabbing intended to kill Sadie Hartley or to cause really serious injury?

5) Are you sure that the first defendant murdered Sadie Hartley by stabbing her and also that the second defendant assisted or encouraged the first defendant to kill her?

6) Are you sure that the first defendant murdered Sadie Hartley by stabbing her and also that the second defendant assisted or encouraged her to threaten or encourage unlawful violence that all reasonable people would realise would cause at least some harm?

(These were only snipped because they ran over WS's "don't quote more than 10%" rule)



If (1) is Yes, then (2) is a no-brainer!

Cheers for paste.

BIB yeah I liked Pros description of the act as "an orgy of violence" and "demonic savagery" hopefully that will stick in their minds. Surely they can't give her the benefit cause they didn't see her smile into the CCTV camera on murder day!

40 wounds in 4 mins

 

[cottonweaver]

strange

this link says SW sent TWO letters

http://www.2br.co.uk/news/local-new...x-texts-to-defendant-days-before-the-killing/

 

[Alyce]

strange

this link says SW sent TWO letters

http://www.2br.co.uk/news/local-new...x-texts-to-defendant-days-before-the-killing/

I know he is not on trial and clearly had no idea what Williams/Walsh were planning and would ultimately do, but I really have quite a low impression of IJ.



To quote two of his comments from that article

I was probably too kind. I didn’t want rid of her I just didn’t want it to continue. But I did continue to text her."


I doubt kindness came into it. He wanted the best of both worlds.


a moment of weakness"


one moment of weakness is possibly understandable. But he had multiple moments of weakness with his continued texts.

 

[cottonweaver]

I know he is not on trial and clearly had no idea what Williams/Walsh were planning and would ultimately do, but I really have quite a low impression of IJ.



To quote two of his comments from that article

I was probably too kind. I didn’t want rid of her I just didn’t want it to continue. But I did continue to text her."


I doubt kindness came into it. He wanted the best of both worlds.


a moment of weakness"


one moment of weakness is possibly understandable. But he had multiple moments of weakness with his continued texts.

Agree with you.
Did you notice in same link , the text reply to SW, where he says he is not going to "blow her off" ( sadie) as she has been " very kind" to him .

"very kind" as in , financially generous, supported him, his volunteering, his holidays etc......

 

[Alyce]

His words re Sadie have always sounded a bit muted and lacking in strong feelings. He talked of her more as an acquaintance than a serious partner.

 

[Cherwell]

I'd love to know what they saw in him.

 

[faybradshaw]

I'd love to know what they saw in him.

Me too! And her ex husband looks in a totally different class to IJ

 

[Tortoise]

I'd love to know what they saw in him.

fireman? rescue fantasy maybe. I mean you don't have to wonder too much re SW. Qualification = married or attached man. Have you seen Hardwick?

 

[cottonweaver]

Me too! And her ex husband looks in a totally different class to IJ

Oh I didn't realise his photo had been in the press. Going to have a look cause I'm nosey!

 

[Cherwell]

Have you seen Hardwick?

Don't be naughty You know what they say, a good man is hard to find :wink:

 

[cottonweaver]

Quaynor says there's no sign of a verdict currently