GUILTY UK - Sadie Hartley, 60, murdered, Helmshore, Lancs, 14 Jan 2016 #1

[Alyce]

Another article on Kit, a fair bit is rehashed though.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...die-hartley-murder-ex-husband-kevin-interview

Interesting that Kevin says KW never intended to give evidence. I had thought it might have been a last minute decision, but clearly not.

 

[Alyce]

I didn't realise it was a group holiday, that makes it a bit less weird. I'd put money on which couple booked first though.
_____________

In December 2013, Johnston’s double life collided when he and Sadie went on a group skiing holiday to France.


Williams and her married lover Hardwick were also part of the group.

Nevertheless, the pair played footsie under the dinner table at night and exchanged more sexually explicit text messages.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...isons-ignited-jealous-rage.html#ixzz4HhycmJAf
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Ha ha.... I was talking to my OH about this point earlier. He does not follow cases but from time to time he has to listen to me going on.

Anyway, soon as I said they were all on a ski trip together but it was part of a larger group from Chill Factore and probably co incidence, he just looked at me like I'd gone bonkers and said, yes of course !

 

[Alyce]

Im presuming if IJ was told to leave the house, his daughter was probably told to leave Sadie's company too.

I would think so. In fact, in her position, I would want to leave.

 

[cottonweaver]

Ha ha.... I was talking to my OH about this point earlier. He does not follow cases but from time to time he has to listen to me going on.

Anyway, soon as I said they were all on a ski trip together but it was part of a larger group from Chill Factore and probably co incidence, he just looked at me like I'd gone bonkers and said, yes of course !

LOL.

Remember what IJ said about trying to end it with SW? She was "embedded in the ski group."

 

[Cherwell]

I would think so. In fact, in her position, I would want to leave.

Yes, but I imagine that she might have a case for unfair dismissal if she was fired.

 

[Alyce]

Yes, but I imagine that she might have a case for unfair dismissal if she was fired.

Good point. But perhaps it was just so uncomfortable on both sides and they came to a financial arrangement for her.

 

[Cherwell]

More than likely.

 

[cottonweaver]

Aban Quaynor, Crime reporter, today.

Ian Johnston, a former watch manager at Rawtenstall Fire Station, said in an emotional interview with the Lancashire Telegraph, that his reputation has been left in tatters after going through ‘eight months of hell’ because of his links to Williams.

“For me to carry some form of guilt, for her responsibility, I just find is, especially when it’s proven that I’ve never, since the letter, ever met her, phone-called, planned, but been foolish to send and respond to some texts, is harsh from that ... I absolutely wish I’d never, ever met her.”

Mr Johnston, who said he is now living near Helmshore, refuted claims by Williams that he was only with Miss Hartley for her money. But he did admit he was now in a weaker financial position after selling his own home in Helmshore to move in to her £500,000 home in Sunnybank ‘as a show of commitment’ to their relationship.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...y_will_forever_regret_texting_Sarah_Williams/

 

[cottonweaver]

granada reporter looks back at the trial

This has been quite an extraordinary trial to sit through. Described in court as 'the stuff of spy novels', truth was often stranger than fiction. Salacious, abhorrent, it was certainly hard at times to comprehend that two people could plan something so horrific, and with such chilling detail.

Throughout the seven week trial, Sarah Williams, appearing arrogant and nonchalant, has sat in court in a grey suit, listening intently and making copious notes.

In contrast her co-defendant, Katrina Walsh, wearing a headscarf to cover her alopecia, and on crutches, has sat with her head bowed, rarely looking up at what was being said in court.

judge on kw

You were the perfect partner in crime: loyal, amoral and, perhaps most welcome of all, anonymous. You spent hours, days and months plotting and scheming the death of Sadie Hartley a recreation from which, as your diaries reveal, you derived considerable pleasure and satisfaction.

– MR JUSTICE TURNER

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2016-08-17/blog-an-in-depth-look-at-the-sadie-hartley-murder-trial/

 

[Cherwell]

Ian Johnston, a former watch manager at Rawtenstall Fire Station, said in an emotional interview with the Lancashire Telegraph, that his reputation has been left in tatters after going through ‘eight months of hell’ because of his links to Williams.

“For me to carry some form of guilt, for her responsibility, I just find is, especially when it’s proven that I’ve never, since the letter, ever met her, phone-called, planned, but been foolish to send and respond to some texts, is harsh from that ... I absolutely wish I’d never, ever met her.”

Mr Johnston, who said he is now living near Helmshore, refuted claims by Williams that he was only with Miss Hartley for her money. But he did admit he was now in a weaker financial position after selling his own home in Helmshore to move in to her £500,000 home in Sunnybank ‘as a show of commitment’ to their relationship.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...y_will_forever_regret_texting_Sarah_Williams/

Will this toerag ever STFU.

 

[Alyce]

This DM article is mainly taken from the earlier Guardian one, that Cotton put up here yesterday.

However, there is a bit here from the diaries that I had not heard before.
I have seen comments on twitter and media that SW should not be referred to as a bunny boiler, so it is interesting to see that KW used the word.


The entries included:

October 2011: After Williams begins an ‘intense’ affair with ‘Master A’ [Somapat Sitiwatjana], Walsh writes: ‘Sarah had gone into full bunny boiler mode as she forgot she was picking me up and has hacked into A’s account.’

July 2012: Master A goes back to Thailand after his wife kicks him out of the house when Williams gives her a letter revealing their affair. Walsh writes: ‘She has run him out of the country. Game, set and match. Psycho actually won.’



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-says-feels-guilt-affair.html#ixzz4HlZecl7J
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Tortoise]

This one refers to probability of histrionic personality disorder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...says-forensic-pyschologist-Dr-KERI-NIXON.html

 

[cottonweaver]

This one refers to probability of histrionic personality disorder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...says-forensic-pyschologist-Dr-KERI-NIXON.html

That's a really good article, Tx.

 

[cottonweaver]

This article has a couple of good photos of Kevin riding and doing archery. His "particular skill set " and their drive-by motorcycle assassination hit - imagine they possibly wanted Kevin to do all that per their plan A.

Now with that HPD "diagnosis" from the forensic psych in T's link upthread, you start to pull the strands together as to why they had such ludicrous plans.
Other than that it's a copy of the Guardian article which preceded it.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Hartley-s-killer-says-feels-guilt-affair.html

 

[cottonweaver]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16363...derers-we-look-at-how-friends-become-killers/

Prof D Wilson on folie a deux ( he's a famous crime writer so it's worth a read)

So, in this case, the older Walsh, the *subservient partner, does not control the actions of her younger friend, but instead encourages them.

It is no surprise that Walsh kept a diary of their 18-month plan to kill Ms Hartley, which provides details of their strategy to commit the “perfect murder”.

What’s also interesting about Walsh’s diary is the fantasy that this would be a “perfect murder” — even though the diary itself would leave a trail that the police found easy to follow.

This is a feature of the delusional beliefs that always underlie a folie à deux.........

The biggest question in relation to the folie à deux is: Would Williams have murdered Ms Hartley if she and Walsh had not formed their intense friendship?

On balance, the answer to that *question is “No, she would not”.

PS Tortoise, it's the same DWilson that commented on the OP interview

https://twitter.com/profdavidwilson?lang=en-gb

other recent work - example
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07npxwx

 

[Alyce]

I agree. I dont think SW would have killed if she had not had a willing partner to help her and make her twisted fantasies seem normal.

 

[cottonweaver]

Aban Quaynor obvioulsy tried to do a piece on reaction in Helmshore itself , but didn't have much luck. Anyway here's the link

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...re_still_in_shock_after_Sadie_Hartley_murder/

THE village of Helmshore is still coming to terms with the horror of what happened on January 14.

Seven months after Sadie Hartley was brutally murdered at Sunnybank Road, residents said they were either unable or unwilling to talk about what went on in the normally quiet street.

A ‘for sale’ sign stands in the driveway of the £500,000 house and there is a feeling that things won’t get back to ‘normal’ until after the dust has settled on yesterday’s verdict.

 

[cottonweaver]

Plus expect a documentary soon

ITV has commissioned Raw Cut TV to produce a fast turnaround documentary charting the murder investigation of Sadie Hartley.

(Nothing else at the link)

http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/itv-orders-sadie-hartley-murder-doc/5108567.article

 

[Tortoise]

As SW was wearing size 10 steel capped boots, she probably would have walked strangely. I haven't seen any photos of the boots in the papers.

 

[Alyce]

There was a shot, in one of the videos, of SW buying the boots - but so far I havent found the right clip.

I have looked at the long ( 13 mins ) video the police produced which shows the footage of SW on the night of the murder, but she doesnt seem to walk differently to the way that she walks in the other parts of the video - although it is dark and only a few seconds of clip.
Probably wore thick socks or put some kind of filler into the boots to make them fit better.