UK - Sara Sharif, 10, found murdered in house, Surrey, Aug 2023 *POIs ARREST* #3

[porkypies]

To answer your question, there are no different classes of murder in England & Wales. Murder is murder is murder, and the mandatory sentence for anybody convicted of murder is imprisonment for life.

But quoting from the website of abvsolicitors.co.uk:
Their 2023 guide to murder law.
The two types of murder
In the UK, there are 2 distinct types of murder: first-degree murder and second-degree murder.

First-degree murder is a premeditated killing, meaning that the killer had planned the murder in advance. Second-degree murder, on the other hand, is a random killing that occurs in the heat of the moment.

 

[Yellowbelly]

But quoting from the website of abvsolicitors.co.uk:
Their 2023 guide to murder law.
The two types of murder
In the UK, there are 2 distinct types of murder: first-degree murder and second-degree murder.

First-degree murder is a premeditated killing, meaning that the killer had planned the murder in advance. Second-degree murder, on the other hand, is a random killing that occurs in the heat of the moment.

If I was ever charged with murder I wouldn't use ABV Solicitors! No idea where they've got that from. This from DPP Law is the current position in England & Wales. Second degree murder was proposed by the Law Commission back in 2009, but it's introduction was rejected by the government of the day.

"What is second-degree murder?
Second-degree murder is not currently an offence in UK law. A three-tier system has previously been proposed, dividing murder into first, second and third degrees, each of which would depend on the circumstances of the offence, the state of mind of the perpetrator at the time and any evidence of premeditation. However, this legislation has not been passed at the current time."

Murder & Manslaughter Solicitors | Manslaughter Charges | DPP Law

If you are faced with a charge of manslaughter or murder, including accusations, DPP Law's criminal defence solicitors in Liverpool can help.

www.dpp-law.com

 

[Dotta]

If I was ever charged with murder I wouldn't use ABV Solicitors! No idea where they've got that from. This from DPP Law is the current position in England & Wales. Second degree murder was proposed by the Law Commission back in 2009, but it's introduction was rejected by the government of the day.

"What is second-degree murder?
Second-degree murder is not currently an offence in UK law. A three-tier system has previously been proposed, dividing murder into first, second and third degrees, each of which would depend on the circumstances of the offence, the state of mind of the perpetrator at the time and any evidence of premeditation. However, this legislation has not been passed at the current time."

Murder & Manslaughter Solicitors | Manslaughter Charges | DPP Law

If you are faced with a charge of manslaughter or murder, including accusations, DPP Law's criminal defence solicitors in Liverpool can help.

www.dpp-law.com

I guess, this "second degree murder" mentioned in post nr 161,
is actually a "manslaughter", no?
I mean,
random, no premeditation.

JMO

 

[Yellowbelly]

I guess, this "second degree murder" mentioned,
is actually a "manslaughter" now, no?
I mean,
random, no premeditation.

JMO

That might well be what they're trying to get at.

Anyway, this guide from the Crown Prosecution Service lays out in detail the law with regards to murder, manslaughter and causing or allowing the death of a child.

Homicide: Murder, manslaughter, infanticide and causing or allowing the death or serious injury of a child or vulnerable adult | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

 

[Dotta]

That might well be what they're trying to get at.

Anyway, this guide from the Crown Prosecution Service lays out in detail the law with regards to murder, manslaughter and causing or allowing the death of a child.

Homicide: Murder, manslaughter, infanticide and causing or allowing the death or serious injury of a child or vulnerable adult | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

Thanks!
I'm going to be more acquainted with English Law than my own country's!

 

[Sooty]

This is really damning of "father":

"William Emlyn Jones KC, prosecuting,
today told a jury
Batool had sent a series of text messages to her sister detailing the abuse.

In May 2021,
Batool texted her sisters to claim Sara’s dad Urfan was 'angry' and that the little girl 'can’t walk' after being 'beaten black'.

The messages read:
'Urfan beat the crap out of Sara', 'she's covered in bruises, literally beaten black',
'I feel really sorry for Sara', 'poor girl can't walk'.

She also said
'I really want to report him',
but she never did.

The following summer,
Batool wrote to her sister:
'He beat Sara up yesterday and I can't send her to school looking like that'.

But she was more concerned with covering up what was happening,
jurors have been told.

The messages relate to a time
before Faisal Malik moved in to live with the family at a flat in West Byfleet,
Surrey, in December 2022."

I think the messages are true.
Why would she lie to her sister in private messages?

The injuries were so severe that only man's brutal force could inflict them.

It seems U. didn't know any parental methods of raising a child except brutal force.
It looks as if corporal punishment was his only method.

And it snowballed ending in tragedy.

(After all,
Olga Sharif - Sara's mother,
in Polish program Attention! said last year
that when she was married to U. he abused her.

He beat her, choked her with a belt, and even tried to set her on fire. In 2017, the couple divorced.)

Of course, IMO,
these messages might reveal the defence line of step"mother"
in which lawyers will want to put the entire blame for Sara's death on U.

JMO

Floral tributes around a police cordon outside the house in Woking

View attachment 539105

Sara Sharif’s step mum said girl’s dad ‘beat the c*** out of her' in texts

SARA Sharif’s stepmum said the schoolgirl’s dad has “beat the c*** out of her” and described how she “can’t walk” in texts, a court heard. Sara, 10, is sai…

www.thesun.co.uk

It is interesting to think that whilst BB wrote that she ‘really’ wanted to report him - she never did, and neither did the sister. We don’t know, I suppose, if sister offered to. Neither do we know (I don’t think) if the sister is in uk. But I am assuming that she was.

If taken at face value - This suggests a few things to me.

• That perhaps BB was complicit; through misplaced sense of duty, force or otherwise.
• That BB was perhaps more scared of reporting Urfan than she was of the consequence of not reporting him.
• That the sister was possibly aware that getting involved was risky for BB/ other members of the family / herself; risky either for violence or being accomplice.
• That sister knew, and accepted, that abuse by the father was considered par for the course/ accepted generally in family life.
• It also suggests that BB had her own phone and was comfortable and confident in private messaging her sister about awful (she is aware that this is awful) situations at home ( in that Urfan was likely not checking her phone? we hear so often in DV situations that control of conversations outside the house is a theme)

Just think …. If you messaged your sister with the info that BB did - what would you think/ expect/ hope she would do?

I hope they ask the sister this question

Just MOO

 

[Dotta]

I guess
U. was a guy ruling the family with "iron fist".
As a "bread winner" he demanded absolute obedience.
If somebody rebelled,
I guess brutal force/abuse followed.

Let's not forget
that B. was constantly either pregnant or soon to be pregnant -
she gave birth to 4 children during marriage.

I guess she was meek and obliging in his presence.

And in his absence,
she relieved her stress on the children, especially a stepdaughter -
mainly screaming and using abusive language.

I see the messages to her sister as typical complaining about home situation, sharing secrets with a sibling.

Not asking for help, just crying on sister's shoulder.

After all,
she was stuck with unhinged/brutal man.
I don't think being a single mother with 4 kids was a possibility for her.

JMO

 

[scapa]

Hazard of the job.

Defence lawyers do what they have to do.

Sometimes they help innocent people.
Not all charged are guilty.

Generally speaking, of course.

JMO

As the inimitable Rumple of the Baily reminds us, "A barrister, my dear sir, is a taxi plying for hire. That is the fine tradition of our trade."

A defence barrister argues a case, to the best of ability. That barrister may love, loathe, sympathise with or be utterly repelled by a client, or be largely indifferent to them.

I would be astonished if solicitors or barristers involved with the defence feel anything but horror with respect to the facts of this case. That they are still able to proceed professionally should not be taken lightly, IMO.

Disclosure -- child of a barrister QC and judge, who lost plenty of sleep and was profoundly conflicted over some clients.

 

[RubyLee87]

Someone once said on this forum that the defence barrister’s job is to provide their ‘client’ with a watertight defence, whether they like them or not, so that there is no chance of the client having a successful appeal in the future. So they are doing a duty to stop them getting out of any kind of technicality. Thinking about it like that stops me from thinking badly of the lawyers who defend these types of people.

 

[Dotta]

Someone once said on this forum that the defence barrister’s job is to provide their ‘client’ with a watertight defence, whether they like them or not, so that there is no chance of the client having a successful appeal in the future. So they are doing a duty to stop them getting out of any kind of technicality. Thinking about it like that stops me from thinking badly of the people who defend these types of people.

Of course.
They are LAWyers.
Meaning:
Professionals dedicated to upholding LAW

 

[Kittypoo]

This is really damning of "father":

"William Emlyn Jones KC, prosecuting,
today told a jury
Batool had sent a series of text messages to her sister detailing the abuse.

In May 2021,
Batool texted her sisters to claim Sara’s dad Urfan was 'angry' and that the little girl 'can’t walk' after being 'beaten black'.

The messages read:
'Urfan beat the crap out of Sara', 'she's covered in bruises, literally beaten black',
'I feel really sorry for Sara', 'poor girl can't walk'.

She also said
'I really want to report him',
but she never did.

The following summer,
Batool wrote to her sister:
'He beat Sara up yesterday and I can't send her to school looking like that'.

But she was more concerned with covering up what was happening,
jurors have been told.

The messages relate to a time
before Faisal Malik moved in to live with the family at a flat in West Byfleet,
Surrey, in December 2022."

I think the messages are true.
Why would she lie to her sister in private messages?

The injuries were so severe that only man's brutal force could inflict them.

It seems U. didn't know any parental methods of raising a child except brutal force.
It looks as if corporal punishment was his only method.

And it snowballed ending in tragedy.

(After all,
Olga Sharif - Sara's mother,
in Polish program Attention! said last year
that when she was married to U. he abused her.

He beat her, choked her with a belt, and even tried to set her on fire. In 2017, the couple divorced.)

Of course, IMO,
these messages might reveal the defence line of step"mother"
in which lawyers will want to put the entire blame for Sara's death on U.

JMO

Floral tributes around a police cordon outside the house in Woking

View attachment 539105

Sara Sharif’s step mum said girl’s dad ‘beat the c*** out of her' in texts

SARA Sharif’s stepmum said the schoolgirl’s dad has “beat the c*** out of her” and described how she “can’t walk” in texts, a court heard. Sara, 10, is sai…

www.thesun.co.uk

It’s obvious why Batool would lie in the messages to sister to leave a digital trail implicating the husband for the abuse of Sara JMO

 

[PKFS]

Although Batool's sister knew about the physical abuse, she wont face any charges. In UK, one is not typically criminally liable for failing to report the abuse. Same goes to neighbours, etc.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Although Batool's sister knew about the physical abuse, she wont face any charges. In UK, one is not typically criminally liable for failing to report the abuse. Same goes to neighbours, etc.

Even if told such explicit details about the abuse where it was clearly life threatening-- that's not considered a crime in the UK?

 

[Dotta]

It’s obvious why Batool would lie in the messages to sister to leave a digital trail implicating the husband for the abuse of Sara JMO

I doubt she is that clever to cover her alleged tracks.

Sometimes messages between siblings are just that - simple messages.

Let's not make this individual a "Mastermind" criminal.

We can all see the incriminating evidence this trio left in their wake.

JMO

 

[Yellowbelly]

I guess
U. was a guy ruling the family with "iron fist".
As a "bread winner" he demanded absolute obedience.
If somebody rebelled,
I guess brutal force/abuse followed.

Let's not forget
that B. was constantly either pregnant or soon to be pregnant -
she gave birth to 4 children during marriage.

I guess she was meek and obliging in his presence.

And in his absence,
she relieved her stress on the children, especially a stepdaughter -
mainly screaming and using abusive language.

I see the messages to her sister as typical complaining about home situation, sharing secrets with a sibling.

Not asking for help, just crying on sister's shoulder.

After all,
she was stuck with unhinged/brutal man.
I don't think being a single mother with 4 kids was a possibility for her.

JMO

Isn't the inference from the bite mark evidence, though, that BB's abuse was more than just verbal.

 

[Dotta]

Isn't the inference from the bite mark evidence, though, that BB's abuse was more than just verbal.

This is for the Court, lawyers and Jury to decide through evidence presented during trial.

I'm only a common Wsleuth posting my opinion.
What do I know after all?
Only snippets of info that appear in MSM.

JMO

 

[Kittypoo]

Isn't the inference from the bite mark evidence, though, that BB's abuse was more than just verbal.

Yes and BB was the only one home when neighbours heard slapping and screaming on numerous occasions allegedly

 

[Dotta]

Yes and BB was the only one home when neighbours heard slapping and screaming on numerous occasions allegedly

Slapping vs broken bones and injuries likened to a "car crash".

I see a "slight" difference.

Not that I'm defending her, mind you.

I think I have made myself clear of my opinion about ALL of them,
writing in this threads for over a year.

 

[PKFS]

Was there not a court day today? There is nothing on BBC News...

Also, I cant get my head around the bite and suction bruise mark on the child's inner thigh. It has been reported that the dental marks were not that of the father or uncle. So that leaves the other siblings OR the stepmum in the house. I think it is stepmum - but why bite and suck there?! I loathe to say this but was the stepmum abusing Sara in other ways? IMOO

Is this going to be put to her when questioning?

The three of them CANNOT be allowed to just sit there like all they have done is "discipline" a child!!! They should face the extent of how they tortured a little child!

The world should see how evil they are - so that in future people dont think twice about calling the police or NSPCC and raise alarms when it comes to protecting children - even if there is a fraction of a doubt.
IMO

I live in Surrey so this is too close to home... we as a community, sadly, chose to be blind. I am reminded of a proverb - "It takes a village to raise a child" - i.e., an entire community of people must provide for and interact positively with children for those children to experience and grow in a safe and healthy environment. We didn't provide this for Sara.

 

[Dotta]

I suspect that there are restrictions put on Media reports today.
For whatever reason.
(Might be sensitive content or a minor giving evidence)

It started on Friday IMO.
The Independent didn't even write the trial sitting ended at specific time that day
but put former reports and photos when it was still early.

Usually it is said that on Monday or another day Court is not sitting.

But it is only JMO