GUILTY UK - Sara Sharif, 10, found murdered in house, Surrey, Aug 2023 *POIs ARREST* #4

[su5ie]

i wonder how their neighbours and community will react to the stepmonster’s sisters, now that their failure to report the abuse of Sara has been widely reported in msm?
moo

They will probably play the victim .

 

[FlamingLily]

They will probably play the victim .

IMO no sentence is retribution enough. It will be small solace though if Urfan and accomplices are targeted in jail by violent thugs.

 

[su5ie]

IMO no sentence is retribution enough. It will be small solace though if Urfan and accomplices are targeted in jail by violent thugs.

No doubt they will be on the protection wing . Offered psychology for betterment they will have nutrition, clean clothing and bed linen . All manner of therapists at there finger tips ,doctors nurses and medication on tap . I know we don't reside in a primitive world but all these 3 deserve is a hell hole in a bare minimum jail .

 

[Nikynoo]

I hope the conviction and sentencing is airtight with no room for a successful appeal.
Prehaps this is what they are hoping for with a guilty verdict the opportunity to appeal . They have shown themselves to be calculating individuals and isn't urfan a gambler . I think he especially will be willing to take his chances with an appeal.

I'm anxious to hear what the prosecutions closing argument is on malik and the context of closing speeches and direction

What grounds do you think they would have to appeal?

 

[su5ie]

What grounds do you think they would have to appeal?

I think malik may appeal. On what grounds and why i think he will .It depends on the sentence given if he recieves a short one say 3 to 5 years I think he will hedge his bets and put the head down and do the time .if he recieved a life sentence. I think he will appeal based on the facts we have been privy to in msm . Hardly ever there and he will use an excuse of having to maintain distance from females (this would only apply to Sara if she had begun her period ) so far we have not had much other than the obvious fleeing the scene of a crime .

I think urfan and bienash may appeal as they will have nothing to lose if handed a whole life tarrif. That opinion is based on the fact both are extremely selfish people and will never atone for their crime and will likely still feel like victims.
The grounds of their appeal may be. bienash Judged on urfans actions or victim of his also , too emotional to give her side of story at original trial . Trail by media .

Urfans appeal may be trial by media . Trial by court of public opinion idk can you appeal based on a newly diagnosis of insanity.

I don't know very much about the justice system my main view is all 3 will appeal because usually defendants of their category and selfishness do which in turn causes more pain which they don't mind inflicting imo

@Nikynoo I would be really interested in hearing your take on this and if you think they will appeal and if in law there is room for one

 

[Moll]

Whether people want to appeal or not is only part of it, though, isn't it? The court has to give permission for them to appeal - there have to be grounds in law.
ETA My reply is based on your first paragraph and a half, before you edited to make additions, but I can't see 'trial by media' or 'cultural bias' working at all. Of course, it's not over yet - there isn't really much point in speculating. Hard not to, in this hiatus, but still - we may yet learn a lot from the final submissions.

 

[su5ie]

Whether people want to appeal or not is only part of it, though, isn't it? The court has to give permission for them to appeal - there have to be grounds in law.

I think permission has to be sought . But a lot of criminals who appeal find ways with the help of their barrister. I'm only speculating but prehaps a criminal expresses an interest in appealing and the barrister will find the way of doing so ???

Appealing Against Your Crown Court Sentence — Defence-Barrister.co.uk

Learn how to appeal a Crown Court sentence, including the grounds, process, and necessary steps. Visit Defence-Barrister.co.uk for detailed guidance.

www.defence-barrister.co.uk

Appeal a Crown Court decision

How to appeal a decision by a Crown Court. Find out which forms you'll need and what the appeal process involves.

www.gov.uk

What are Successful Grounds for an Appeal? How to Win?

If a court renders an unjust decision, you might wonder if there is a way to challenge the ruling. Find out potential successful grounds for an appeal.

www.allanrouben.com

 

[Moll]

I think permission has to be sought . But a lot of criminals who appeal find ways with the help of their barrister. I'm only speculating but prehaps a criminal expresses an interest in appealing and the barrister will find the way of doing so ???

It certainly has to be sought but barristers can't work miracles!

Appeal a Crown Court decision

How to appeal a decision by a Crown Court. Find out which forms you'll need and what the appeal process involves.

www.gov.uk

Grounds for appeal:

What are the grounds for appeal against a sentence or conviction?​

Court of Appeal Criminal Division:

Appeal against conviction

There is no automatic right of appeal against conviction. An appeal may only be brought by leave (permission) of the Court of Appeal. Even if leave is granted, the appeal will fail unless it can be shown that a conviction is unsafe.

A conviction may be unsafe for many different reasons, including the following:

• The Judge made an error of law during the trial;
• The Judge misdirected the jury in law or fact in his summing up;
• There was otherwise a procedural irregularity during the trial;
• The verdicts were inconsistent;
• There is now material and credible fresh evidence which was unavailable during the trial which casts doubt on the jury’s verdict or the safety of the conviction.
• Appeals Barristers in London | 25 Bedford Row

ETA Didn't see your edits to add links before replying!

 

[su5ie]

Whether people want to appeal or not is only part of it, though, isn't it? The court has to give permission for them to appeal - there have to be grounds in law.
ETA My reply is based on your first paragraph and a half, before you edited to make additions, but I can't see 'trial by media' or 'cultural bias' working at all. Of course, it's not over yet - there isn't really much point in speculating. Hard not to, in this hiatus, but still - we may yet learn a lot from the final submissions.

I don't mind being wrong hehe . Thank you for your reasoning appreciate that .
I guess overall I want them all locked up in pit hole and fed scraps with no natural light hitting their skin again

I think it's a tense period between now and sentencing it's such an emotional case

 

[Nikynoo]

I think malik may appeal. On what grounds and why i think he will .It depends on the sentence given if he recieves a short one say 3 to 5 years I think he will hedge his bets and put the head down and do the time .if he recieved a life sentence. I think he will appeal based on the facts we have been privy to in msm . Hardly ever there and he will use an excuse of having to maintain distance from females (this would only apply to Sara if she had begun her period ) so far we have not had much other than the obvious fleeing the scene of a crime .

I think urfan and bienash may appeal as they will have nothing to lose if handed a whole life tarrif. That opinion is based on the fact both are extremely selfish people and will never atone for their crime and will likely still feel like victims.
The grounds of their appeal may be. bienash Judged on urfans actions or victim of his also , too emotional to give her side of story at original trial . Trail by media .

Urfans appeal may be trial by media . Trial by court of public opinion idk can you appeal based on a newly diagnosis of insanity.

I don't know very much about the justice system my main view is all 3 will appeal because usually defendants of their category and selfishness do which in turn causes more pain which they don't mind inflicting imo

@Nikynoo I would be really interested in hearing your take on this and if you think they will appeal and if in law there is room for one

as you know, I do not practice criminal law. I think the only thing that they will be able to appeal for, would be the sentencing, or if the judge errs in law (e.g. giving the incorrect or imcomplete directions to the jury). They cannot appeal the jury decision - the jurors are triers of fact. There have a been a couple of recent cases whereby either the Defendant or Prosecution has appealed their sentences - Wayne Couzens (Sarah Everard) and Timothy Brehmer (Claire Parry) UK - Constable arrested in murder of Claire Parry, 41, near Bournemouth; she died 10 May 2020.

Wayne Cuzens appealed more or less that his whole life tariff sentence was too long. He lost that appeal within a year of his original sentence.

Timothy Brehmer sentence of 10+ years was INCREASED after the prosecution stated that the sentence was unduly lenient.

I don't think you should worry about any appeal

 

[su5ie]

as you know, I do not practice criminal law. I think the only thing that they will be able to appeal for, would be the sentencing, or if the judge errs in law (e.g. giving the incorrect or imcomplete directions to the jury). They cannot appeal the jury decision - the jurors are triers of fact. There have a been a couple of recent cases whereby either the Defendant or Prosecution has appealed their sentences - Wayne Couzens (Sarah Everard) and Timothy Brehmer (Claire Parry) UK - Constable arrested in murder of Claire Parry, 41, near Bournemouth; she died 10 May 2020.

Wayne Cuzens appealed more or less that his whole life tariff sentence was too long. He lost that appeal within a year of his original sentence.

Timothy Brehmer sentence of 10+ years was INCREASED after the prosecution stated that the sentence was unduly lenient.

I don't think you should worry about any appeal

Sorry about that I didn't know which area of law you practice but I do know your opinion would be most probably more knowledgeable than mine

I'm very interested in what your opinion is as your posts are factually based which is always a good point of view .mine are generally emotionally charged which can cloud the realities of the law thank you

 

[CaptainNancy]

As I understand it, this is why Judges take time to write their legal directive (or whatever it is called) to the Jury -and they can be long and involved. Also why they take time to write a long sentencing statement which goes into all their reasoning and laying out the exact reasons and precedents for a long sentence.

To forfend against an appeal.

I used to think that judges mainly sat and listened, banged a gavel occasionally (often if in a TV drama) and then decided a sentence. Having watched part of a trial I realise their involvement is constant, intense and very skilled, needing every bit of their training and experience.

 

[Nikynoo]

As I understand it, this is why Judges take time to write their legal directive (or whatever it is called) to the Jury -and they can be long and involved. Also why they take time to write a long sentencing statement which goes into all their reasoning and laying out the exact reasons and precedents for a long sentence.

To forfend against an appeal.

I used to think that judges mainly sat and listened, banged a gavel occasionally (often if in a TV drama) and then decided a sentence. Having watched part of a trial I realise their involvement is constant, intense and very skilled, needing every bit of their training and experience.

You might like to read some judgements - the critical thinking in some judgements is truly outstanding.

 

[Dotta]

Prosecutor William Emlyn Jones KC suggested that
all the defendants were involved in the violence against Sara,
which had become “normalised” in the household,
also
that some of the abuse would have required
two people
and by the time of her death, Sara had been forced to wear a nappy
so she could be kept tied up for longer.

Stepmother and uncle decline to give evidence in Sara Sharif murder trial

Lawyers for Beinash Batool and Faisal Malik indicated that neither would give evidence in their defence.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[UK Girl]

Do we even know what toys she liked? To send to her grave.

To be honest the parents of young children that have died spend many hours - sometimes daily getting the grave just how they want it. Whilst the thought is nice they may not appreciate people that didnt know her putting things on the grave

 

[Smithpanes]

To be honest the parents of young children that have died spend many hours - sometimes daily getting the grave just how they want it. Whilst the thought is nice they may not appreciate people that didnt know her putting things on the grave

People cannot do this. It’s so wrong. It’s a special place for family and friends not strangers. If anyone did that on my son’s grave I’d be angry. It’s a place where we go for comfort a private place to grieve and remember.

 

[Nikynoo]

To be honest the parents of young children that have died spend many hours - sometimes daily getting the grave just how they want it. Whilst the thought is nice they may not appreciate people that didnt know her putting things on the grave

Would flowers would be an appropriate alternative?

 

[Smithpanes]

Would flowers would be an appropriate alternative?

No. Leave them be. It’s a place where we go to remember our children. It’s private. Can I ask how you’d feel if you were at your child’s grave and strangers rocked up and took over it with toys? It’s so distasteful and quite disturbing that anyone would suggest this. I reported the post to the mods if anyone wants to know!

 

[UK Girl]

Would flowers would be an appropriate alternative?

tbh if anyone wants to give money to something in her memory giving it to a child abuse charity would be better to help other kids. Another option would be to send a toy to some charity for a child for Christmas in her name

 

[szerszeń]

Nie. Zostaw ich w spokoju. To miejsce, do którego chodzimy, aby wspominać nasze dzieci. Jest prywatne. Czy mogę zapytać, jak byś się czuł, gdybyś był przy grobie swojego dziecka, a obcy ludzie pojawiliby się i zajęli go zabawkami? To takie niesmaczne i dość niepokojące, że ktoś mógłby to zasugerować. Zgłosiłem post moderatorom, jeśli ktoś chce wiedzieć!

I understand Your point of view. Nobody wants to stop Sara's family from grieving. I think we all would only like to show respect for Sara.