GUILTY UK - Sara Sharif, 10, found murdered in house, Surrey, Aug 2023 *POIs ARREST* #4

[UK Girl]

And the beginning of Urfan Sharif's defence counsel's closing speech. Mr Mian says US couldn't have caused the traumatic brain injury, but the evidence for that is US's assertion that he never hit Sara on the head. Can he be believed? I think this all helps to bring out the fact that BB and US are both guilty.

This is the concern I have. I think they are equally as bad and considering what the neighbours said I would not be surprised if she was worse than him which is why I am confused at why he has suddenly changed his story so drastically and worries me that she could walk. Her lawyer is pretty good.

 

[Skigh]

This is the concern I have. I think they are equally as bad and considering what the neighbours said I would not be surprised if she was worse than him which is why I am confused at why he has suddenly changed his story so drastically and worries me that she could walk. Her lawyer is pretty good.

The jury would have heard so much more than we have learnt from reading media reports. I think if we have deduced they are equally as bad as each other then hopefully the jury will have also come to that conclusion.

 

[Moll]

This is the concern I have. I think they are equally as bad and considering what the neighbours said I would not be surprised if she was worse than him which is why I am confused at why he has suddenly changed his story so drastically and worries me that she could walk. Her lawyer is pretty good.

But he still denies having anything to do with the bites, the iron burns or the hoods. There is still evidence against her that her lawyer cannot get rid of. It's being claimed by both lawyers that their clients were subject to coercive control by the other one. I don't think you should worry that she will get off. JMO.

 

[Sooty]

And the beginning of Urfan Sharif's defence counsel's closing speech. Mr Mian says US couldn't have caused the traumatic brain injury, but the evidence for that is US's assertion that he never hit Sara on the head. Can he be believed? I think this all helps to bring out the fact that BB and US are both guilty.

I thought that US had admitted to repeatedly hitting Sara over the head with a mobile phone previously. The man couldn’t lie straight in bed. MOO

 

[seasideForest]

My point was it could just as easily have been injuries caused by her as its obvious she was a big participant in the abuse especially when you consider he worked long hours and was not there a lot which is something that bothers me.

The prosecutor emphasised how the trio did this together. I know there's less proof of what Malik may have done, but otherwise I think Sara died of long-term accumulated injuries inflicted by both BB and US. JMO

US was undoubtedly not there as much as BB but I agree with @Skigh about not trusting any of their accounts of who was where when. He has admitted to coming home when called by BB in order to 'punish' Sara. We don't know how often that happened. It might have been frequent. He wouldn't have needed to take a huge break from his work in order to do so.

 

[PoirotPink]

On the evening of Sara dying. a child (the brother IMO) in the household sent an "urgent" text message to a friend stating that Sara had "just passed away."

This message was sent at 8:38 pm, shortly after Batool, had called her husband, Urfan Sharif, urging him to return home. So Sara died when Urfan was not at home and under the care of Batool.

The prosecution presented this text to the jury as part of the evidence to establish the timeline of events leading up to Sara's death.

So Batool must have hurt Sara to the point that the child (possibly brother) thought Sara had died AND before Sharif came and completed the act!

But surely Sara had indeed died by the time the brother texted his friend to say as much. TBH, this series of events supports the contention that Batool was the person who was inflicting injuries. All the evidence points to that and always has. Bite marks, neighbour saying the screams were only heard when no other adult was at home, sellotape for restraints bought by her, the weirdness of Urfan's confessions (discussed in a previous post), the very real possibility that she was sending her sister messages to frame someone else for the abuse in case it came to light, no fingerprint or DNA evidence belonging to her (despite her living in the house). The last two points highlighting that it's only the guilty person who knows they should be covering their tracks. The first version of the story that Urfan gave had more of a ring of truth about it than the second, especially in light of the above timeline which directly contradicts his second version.

Yes, he's a terrible person with a history of abusive relationships with former partners. Although, it should be noted that none of those allegations have ever been "tested" in court, nor in this trial (as those involved did not give evidence). Previous complaints of domestic violence doesn't automatically mean that he must have abused his child or indeed Batool. There was a surprising lack of evidence regarding any domestic abuse towards Batool, despite her voluminous correspondence with her sisters and her whole defence being framed around her contention that she couldn't act because she was in abusive relationship.

Having said that, even if Batool was the person responsible for the injuries and Sara's death, it doesn't excuse the fact that he did nothing to stop it and for that he is most certainly guilty. And further shame on him for changing his story to protect Batool in spite of knowing what she did to Sara, if that is what happened.

From the evidence that the Prosecution presented,

• Injuries of such magnitude (e.g., bite marks, burns) could not be inflicted without the knowledge and participation of others.

Right, but this is just the prosecution's contention. I think it's perfectly possible for an adult to bite and burn a child without help. Sara was only 10 with a slight build. People are also forgetting the restraints and even the suspected head injuries, both of which would render a child immobile! I think the prosecution have been a bit too gung ho in trying to pin the murder charge on all three that the most likely scenario (IMO, that Batool did it) has flown under the radar.

JMO

 

[UK Girl]

But surely Sara had indeed died by the time the brother texted his friend to say as much. TBH, this series of events supports the contention that Batool was the person who was inflicting injuries. All the evidence points to that and always has. Bite marks, neighbour saying the screams were only heard when no other adult was at home, sellotape for restraints bought by her, the weirdness of Urfan's confessions (discussed in a previous post), the very real possibility that she was sending her sister messages to frame someone else for the abuse in case it came to light, no fingerprint or DNA evidence belonging to her (despite her living in the house). The last two points highlighting that it's only the guilty person who knows they should be covering their tracks. The first version of the story that Urfan gave had more of a ring of truth about it than the second, especially in light of the above timeline which directly contradicts his second version.

Yes, he's a terrible person with a history of abusive relationships with former partners. Although, it should be noted that none of those allegations have ever been "tested" in court, nor in this trial (as those involved did not give evidence). Previous complaints of domestic violence doesn't automatically mean that he must have abused his child or indeed Batool. There was a surprising lack of evidence regarding any domestic abuse towards Batool, despite her voluminous correspondence with her sisters and her whole defence being framed around her contention that she couldn't act because she was in abusive relationship.

Having said that, even if Batool was the person responsible for the injuries and Sara's death, it doesn't excuse the fact that he did nothing to stop it and for that he is most certainly guilty. And further shame on him for changing his story to protect Batool in spite of knowing what she did to Sara, if that is what happened.



Right, but this is just the prosecution's contention. I think it's perfectly possible for an adult to bite and burn a child without help. Sara was only 10 with a slight build. People are also forgetting the restraints and even the suspected head injuries, both of which would render a child immobile! I think the prosecution have been a bit too gung ho in trying to pin the murder charge on all three that the most likely scenario (IMO, that Batool did it) has flown under the radar.

JMO

She was only 4 stone I think so not hard to pin down

 

[Moll]

PoirotPink - you seriously think the prosecution lawyers are so much less clever than you that they have failed to consider all possibilities and check all the available evidence so that your 'most likely scenario' has 'flown under the radar'?

 

[UK Girl]

PoirotPink - you seriously think the prosecution lawyers are so much less clever than you that they have failed to consider all possibilities and check all the available evidence so that your 'most likely scenario' has 'flown under the radar'?

tbh I imagine the Prosecution lawyers were thrown at what happened in court

 

[PoirotPink]

PoirotPink - you seriously think the prosecution lawyers are so much less clever than you that they have failed to consider all possibilities and check all the available evidence so that your 'most likely scenario' has 'flown under the radar'?

As I've said before, our legal system is not based on truthfinding (as occurs in parts of Europe). Look at the many miscarriages of justice that we know about. It's not and never has been a perfect system.

The prosecution's job is simply to convince a jury to convict defendants on the charges brought. They are not engaged in an exercise of checking all the evidence to establish the truth. I just gave my opinion on what I think the "truth" is likely to be.

Crucially, cases must be decided on "evidence put before the court". We had a silent Batool who managed to introduce a lot of evidence that appears to exonerate her (in the form of text messages to her sisters), yet, it was always highly unlikely that she would submit to cross-examination for the veracity of her assertions to be tested before the court. Still, since it's contemporaneous evidence, it carries weight. Then we have the confessions from Urfan, which also appear to exonerate her. That's what the prosecution knew they had to work with before they went into this trial. And the prosecution would have formed their narrative around that and their expectations of how the jury might perceive the evidence put before them. Risks will have been considered and pragmatic decisions will have been made. A straightforward story is always less risky than a convoluted one which involves human behaviour and motives that are more complex.

Some people think that the prosecution's contentions must be the truth, because they're the "good guys". In fact, what you have is two sides in an antagonistic legal system who are both trying to win. The prosecution is just as likely to cherry-pick and ignore aspects of evidence as the defence. Both have the same aim, to convince the jury that their narrative is what should be believed.

 

[Dotta]

So today seems to be the last day.

As G.Dragon says...

"The court will reconvene when Mr Mian will continue his closing speech.
Closing speeches will also be given by Beinash Batool and Faisal Malik’s counsel."

Guildford Dragon NEWS

Guildford News

guildford-dragon.com

 

[Charlot123]

No. Leave them be. It’s a place where we go to remember our children. It’s private. Can I ask how you’d feel if you were at your child’s grave and strangers rocked up and took over it with toys? It’s so distasteful and quite disturbing that anyone would suggest this. I reported the post to the mods if anyone wants to know!

@Smithpanes , I started it, and I apologize. My experience was with my mom’s grave, it is located in a different country, and I was happy to see it taken care of and with flowers; people remembered her. I did not think of the fact that a departed child’s parents might feel different, but thank you for providing a different perspective.
Honestly, my main intention was to send a message of support to Sara’s mother, grandmother and other maternal relatives, so that they know that the world cares about their child and grandchild, that we hope that justice will be served, and that we feel immense compassion towards them. I understand that it won’t minimize their grief even an by inch, but one feels so sad about Olga. Anyhow, thank you and insight would be appreciated.

 

[VioletLilac]

But surely Sara had indeed died by the time the brother texted his friend to say as much. TBH, this series of events supports the contention that Batool was the person who was inflicting injuries. All the evidence points to that and always has. Bite marks, neighbour saying the screams were only heard when no other adult was at home, sellotape for restraints bought by her, the weirdness of Urfan's confessions (discussed in a previous post), the very real possibility that she was sending her sister messages to frame someone else for the abuse in case it came to light, no fingerprint or DNA evidence belonging to her (despite her living in the house). The last two points highlighting that it's only the guilty person who knows they should be covering their tracks. The first version of the story that Urfan gave had more of a ring of truth about it than the second, especially in light of the above timeline which directly contradicts his second version.

Yes, he's a terrible person with a history of abusive relationships with former partners. Although, it should be noted that none of those allegations have ever been "tested" in court, nor in this trial (as those involved did not give evidence). Previous complaints of domestic violence doesn't automatically mean that he must have abused his child or indeed Batool. There was a surprising lack of evidence regarding any domestic abuse towards Batool, despite her voluminous correspondence with her sisters and her whole defence being framed around her contention that she couldn't act because she was in abusive relationship.

Having said that, even if Batool was the person responsible for the injuries and Sara's death, it doesn't excuse the fact that he did nothing to stop it and for that he is most certainly guilty. And further shame on him for changing his story to protect Batool in spite of knowing what she did to Sara, if that is what happened.



Right, but this is just the prosecution's contention. I think it's perfectly possible for an adult to bite and burn a child without help. Sara was only 10 with a slight build. People are also forgetting the restraints and even the suspected head injuries, both of which would render a child immobile! I think the prosecution have been a bit too gung ho in trying to pin the murder charge on all three that the most likely scenario (IMO, that Batool did it) has flown under the radar.

JMO

My personal belief is that all of Urfan's previous girlfriends were telling the truth about his abuse and that a leopard doesn't change its spots and an abuser carries on abusing. I also believe Batool's texts about Urfan's violence to Sara.
I still hope she gets a lengthy sentence for not saving Sara though. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

My personal belief is that all of Urfan's previous girlfriends were telling the truth about his abuse and that a leopard doesn't change its spots and an abuser carries on abusing. I also believe Batool's texts about Urfan's violence to Sara.
I still hope she gets a lengthy sentence for not saving Sara though. JMO

Angelica, Anna, Olga. One wonders if all the women were immigrants. Urfan seems to be a true sadist, but it is easier to be sadistic towards more vulnerable women with less protection. Batool was born in UK. He might have been afraid of abusing her the way he used to abuse others. Plus, she is pretty aggressive herself. One has to just watch her statement in Pakistan to understand that she is not that much afraid of anything. So he turned his abuse towards Sara, and the more she grew, the worse it became. Batool was a kindred spirit to Urfan, and between the two, Sara’s life was worth nothing.

 

[FlamingLily]

tbh I imagine the Prosecution lawyers were thrown at what happened in court

I think Urfan Sharif's erratic public court behaviour (story changes, plea changes, hyperbolic choice of language, childish use of "psycho" and black magic, smiling through slapping video AND approaching attendees inappropriately) has emphasised how deeply unstable he is in private. Not sure lawyers of that calibre are thrown by much, they're trained ring leaders in their legal circuses.

 

[Moll]

As I've said before, our legal system is not based on truthfinding (as occurs in parts of Europe). Look at the many miscarriages of justice that we know about. It's not and never has been a perfect system.

The prosecution's job is simply to convince a jury to convict defendants on the charges brought. They are not engaged in an exercise of checking all the evidence to establish the truth. I just gave my opinion on what I think the "truth" is likely to be.

Crucially, cases must be decided on "evidence put before the court". We had a silent Batool who managed to introduce a lot of evidence that appears to exonerate her (in the form of text messages to her sisters), yet, it was always highly unlikely that she would submit to cross-examination for the veracity of her assertions to be tested before the court. Still, since it's contemporaneous evidence, it carries weight. Then we have the confessions from Urfan, which also appear to exonerate her. That's what the prosecution knew they had to work with before they went into this trial. And the prosecution would have formed their narrative around that and their expectations of how the jury might perceive the evidence put before them. Risks will have been considered and pragmatic decisions will have been made. A straightforward story is always less risky than a convoluted one which involves human behaviour and motives that are more complex.

Some people think that the prosecution's contentions must be the truth, because they're the "good guys". In fact, what you have is two sides in an antagonistic legal system who are both trying to win. The prosecution is just as likely to cherry-pick and ignore aspects of evidence as the defence. Both have the same aim, to convince the jury that their narrative is what should be believed.

I certainly don't take the view in your last paragraph. What I don't see, though, is how Urfan's original defence case (which you appear ready to accept, along with the doubt he tried to throw on the evidence of three entirely unconnected Polish women) has been in any way underrepresented in court. There were six days of it before he changed his story. The prosecution then carefully took him through all the points on which he'd changed his evidence. We're all forming our views on incomplete evidence here, but as far as I can see it is not bias when the prosecution accepts the last version of his story but with the caveat that he has lied repeatedly. They regard Beinash Batool as equally guilty - you seem to be saying Urfan Sharif is less guilty, as he first claimed.

I'm well aware of other legal systems and the drawbacks of the English adversarial system. You nonetheless seem to me to be maligning the prosecution here. Evidence presented in court is not only the evidence given in person. Forensic evidence carries a great deal of weight.

ETA And they do check the evidence to try to establish the truth. They are prosecuting on behalf of the state.

 

[seasideForest]

Given the apologetic notes and letters written by Sara that we have seen this week, and the fact that any adult living in that house must have been aware that something was wrong.
It also occurs to me that, with this 'normalisation' of Sara's treatment in the household, with no-one seeming to mind too much, that at 10 years old and so familiar with long-term abuse, she could well have learned to blame herself for her fate, and this attitude would in itself deter or prevent her from seeking any help for herself, or asking any of her family to help.
So it would not have been too difficult for the adults to instruct her to lie at school and elsewhere and to cover up and hide her injuries.
For this reason, I think any adult in that house, just by reason of living there, is guilty of this additional mental abuse of the child, simply by continuing to live there as if the household was 'normal.'

BBM
The bolded bit is a normal affect of abuse on children, unfortunately. IMO and also unfortunately IME. You learn fast not to do any big family taboos, which telling somebody outside the family would be. Much better to lie to strangers or be evasive. It's part of the conditioning which you just absorb and abide by.

Sara might even have been punished for trying to get help within the family/household like from the uncle. Or she might have sensed he wouldn't help her anyway - that's conjecture obviously because we don't know any such details.

Absolutely, all adults living in that household and simply looking the other way are guilty of terrible emotional abuse imho. I don't know whether to believe those stories of her snipping up clothes etc but if it's true that would have been a cry for help, possibly even an unconscious one - acting out. Nobody heard, nobody cared, nobody got help for Sara.

I don't agree with any conjectures here on WS that the uncle might not have known.

MOO

 

[Moll]

Angelica, Anna, Olga. One wonders if all the women were immigrants. Urfan seems to be a true sadist, but it is easier to be sadistic towards more vulnerable women with less protection. Batool was born in UK. He might have been afraid of abusing her the way he used to abuse others. Plus, she is pretty aggressive herself. One has to just watch her statement in Pakistan to understand that she is not that much afraid of anything. So he turned his abuse towards Sara, and the more she grew, the worse it became. Batool was a kindred spirit to Urfan, and between the two, Sara’s life was worth nothing.

I agree.
We know the other women were all Polish, and at least one only came to the UK to be with him, it seems.

Sara Sharif's father 'threatened to kill ex-partners', court hears

Three former partners accuse Urfan Sharif of threats to kill and false imprisonment since 2004.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[UK Girl]

My personal belief is that all of Urfan's previous girlfriends were telling the truth about his abuse and that a leopard doesn't change its spots and an abuser carries on abusing. I also believe Batool's texts about Urfan's violence to Sara.
I still hope she gets a lengthy sentence for not saving Sara though. JMO

It isnt that she didnt just save Sara. She also committed abuse on Sara so its pretty rich that she forgets to say that part.

 

[su5ie]

From the evidence that the Prosecution presented,

• Injuries of such magnitude (e.g., bite marks, burns) could not be inflicted without the knowledge and participation of others.
• The claim that Batool believed Sara was dying from injuries inflicted by Urfan fails to explain why Batool did not act to protect Sara or seek medical assistance, showing neglect or active involvement.

Given the magnitude I am inclined to the "participation" and "active involvement" by Batool.
This is just my opinion, and I’m open to being contradicted, but I’ll likely still stand by my thoughts (no offense intended)

I think given the timeline of NS text . And bienash ringing urfan and him arriving home . I think Sara died on bienashs watch . Which means Sara was either dying in the previous 2 day period and the account given by urfan that he gave cpr etc when he arrived home is a lie imo or bienash gave her a beating and Sara died then or bienash went to check Sara was still bound in the outhouse and Sara had succumbed to her injuries .

Forgive my crudeness but the death scene in the bedroom as narrated by urfan is a lie imo