UK - Scarlett Vickers (14) stabbed to death at home in Darlington. Parents charged with murder (5 July '24)

[Dotta]

"Schoolgirl Scarlett died from rapid blood loss
on June 5 last year after the blade pierced her chest and her heart.

A jury at Teesside Crown Court convicted Vickers of murder by a majority.

He will face life imprisonment when
he is sentenced on February 10."

PS
The victim died of "rapid blood loss".
The knife was taken out of her body when it is recommended to leave it as it prevents blood loss,
it is like a "plug".
It should be taken out only at hospital.

I honestly have no words for all this

Father, 50, found guilty of murdering daughter, 14, in 'playfight'

Simon Vickers, 50, insisted that his only child Scarlett, 14, died in a 'freak accident' at their home in Darlington, County Durham, after he 'accidentally' swiped a knife.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Sarahlou]

No emotion from the dad in that video. If this had been an accident you'd be distraught.

 

[Ruby12345]

Why was the Mother initially blamed?

 

[Owlpellet]

"Schoolgirl Scarlett died from rapid blood loss
on June 5 last year after the blade pierced her chest and her heart.

A jury at Teesside Crown Court convicted Vickers of murder by a majority.

He will face life imprisonment when
he is sentenced on February 10."

PS
The victim died of "rapid blood loss".
The knife was taken out of her body when it is recommended to leave it as it prevents blood loss,
it is like a "plug".
It should be taken out only at hospital.

I honestly have no words for all this

Father, 50, found guilty of murdering daughter, 14, in 'playfight'

Simon Vickers, 50, insisted that his only child Scarlett, 14, died in a 'freak accident' at their home in Darlington, County Durham, after he 'accidentally' swiped a knife.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

I'd say he shows how it happened with that gesture of his right hand at the end of the video! (In the Daily Mail article link)

 

[wtiger]

the verdict was 10-2 guilty - if this was an American trial he'd be at home tonight

it was definitely not a clear cut case

 

[SusanDonim]

the verdict was 10-2 guilty - if this was an American trial he'd be at home tonight

it was definitely not a clear cut case

How do you think the knife ended up in Scarlett's chest, and then out again and onto the worktop?

 

[bobbymkii]

Why was the Mother initially blamed?

We can only guess! Since the charges against her were dropped and the only evidence we heard about at the trial related to whether or not Simon was guilty.

My best guess would be because her account, certainly at the home in the presence of paramedics and police, (we don't know what happened in her police interview) was also disjointed and inconsistent.

But Scarlett only had one stab wound, no defensive injuries or signs of being restrained or a struggle, so there really was no physical evidence that her death was caused by more than one person. It beats me how the CPS managed to find enough evidence to charge her in the first place.

JMO

 

[Honeybirdette]

the verdict was 10-2 guilty - if this was an American trial he'd be at home tonight

it was definitely not a clear cut case

I suppose his version did sound plausible…
I mean how many of us here have had a few wines, watched the football and then casually threw a sharp knife and a few other kitchen utensils at our kids whilst mucking about.
Easy mistake to make but very unfortunate the knife went 11cm deep inside her and killed her…

 

[Dotta]

Well,
the verdict is murder.
So...
I'm not sure about minimum amount of years before parole in the UK for such a crime
but,
considering he is 50+
it might turn out to be a life sentence.

JMO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

the verdict was 10-2 guilty - if this was an American trial he'd be at home tonight

it was definitely not a clear cut case

If this was an American case, they'd be asked to continue to try to reach an agreement on both charges. Possibly they would agree then on the manslaughter charge, and he still wouldn't be home tonight. JMO.

 

[scapa]

If this was an American case, they'd be asked to continue to try to reach an agreement on both charges. Possibly they would agree then on the manslaughter charge, and he still wouldn't be home tonight. JMO.

Yes, I think that's more likely.

Had it been an accident, and had either he or the mum had the idea of fashioning a doughnut bandage round the knife and left it in -- as is taught in an first-aider course -- instead of trying to whip it out and do what they could to make it seem like an accident in the middle of lighthearted faffing about in the kitchen, this might have been a case of serious assault with S surviving.

But they didn't, and she died, and here we are. No doubt a tragic case but manslaughter/ murder seems like the appropriate call.

 

[Dotta]

I don't know about the law in a case of violent crime being harsh.

I'm afraid OP didn't understand the reason I used this sentence.

It was for those who were convinced about manslaughter.

But, guess what?
Jury decided it was Murder.
Harsh, but this is Law.
Jury of Peers decided lawfully.
The child was MURDERED.

As was my opinion from the start.

I hope it is clear now.

 

[Dotta]

"Following the guilty verdict,
Durham Constabulary Detective Superintendent Craig Rudd,
spoke outside of the court.

Det Supt Rudd said:

'Scarlett Vickers would have celebrated her 16th birthday this year.

She had her whole life ahead of her,
yet it was cruelly cut short by her own father -
the man who was meant to protect her.

We may never know why or what caused Simon Vickers to do what he did that night and sadly,
today's verdict will not bring Scarlett back.

But he will now face the consequences of his actions.

I would like to thank my investigation team for their tireless efforts for getting justice for Scarlett
and the community for their co-operation and understanding while we carried out our inquiries.

Our thoughts remain with those who cared about Scarlett'."

Scarlett Vickers' life 'cruelly cut short by own father' in Darlington murder

Durham Constabulary Detective Superintendent Craig Rudd said Scarlett's life was 'cruelly cut short' outside court today

www-chroniclelive-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

"Anna Barker,
Senior Crown Prosecutor with CPS North East,
said:

'The account provided by Simon Vickers about how his daughter, Scarlett, sustained a fatal injury
is wholly inconsistent with the forensic evidence in this case.

As part of our case against him,
the Crown Prosecution Service
instructed a medical expert,
whose analysis made it clear that the nature of the wound sustained by Scarlett
could only have been caused if the knife used had been firmly gripped as she was injured.

We have worked closely with Durham Police
to meticulously piece together the tragic events
which led to Scarlett’s death.

Our thoughts remain with her family,
for who this must remain a difficult time'.”

Darlington man who fatally stabbed his daughter during ‘play fight’ convicted of her murder | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

 

[Yellowbelly]

Well,
the verdict is murder.
So...
I'm not sure about minimum amount of years before parole in the UK for such a crime
but,
considering he is 50+
it might turn out to be a life sentence.

JMO

I reckon he's looking at 15-20 years minimum.

 

[Sarahlou]

I think he'll get 23 minimum

 

[Dotta]

I think he'll get 23 minimum

I guess - 20 minimum.
Till 70 years of age.

 

[bobbymkii]

Well, at the risk of being wrong again - I don't think he'll be looking at much more than the bog standard starting point of 15 years, maybe a token uplift, with aggravating and mitigating factors more or less cancelling each other out. Probably very much to the outrage of many, but remember:

"The sentence is not a measure of the value put on the life of the victim."

as to the aggravating and mitigating factors (My assessments BBM):

Aggravating factors are things that make an offence even more serious and increase the minimum term. These
include:

• a significant degree of planning or premeditation; No
• the fact that the victim was particularly vulnerable because of age or disability; Somewhat. Scarlett was 14 years old, not 14 months
• mental or physical suffering inflicted on the victim before death; I've got to be honest. I don't really understand this part of the guidelines because I don't think it's really possible to be murdered without experiencing mental or physical suffering
• the abuse of a position of trust; Yes
• the use of duress or threats to enable the offence to take place; No
• the fact that the victim was providing a public service or performing a public duty; No
• concealing, destroying or dismembering the body. No

Mitigating factors are things that may reduce the minimum term. These include:

• an intention to cause serious bodily harm rather than to kill; probably not. This might be a hot topic of debate in the sentencing hearing
• lack of premeditation; yes
• the offender suffering from a mental disorder or mental disability which lowered his degree of blame; no
• the fact that the offender was provoked (for example, by prolonged stress); I don't think being called "a wimp" would qualify for this mitigation
• the fact that the offender acted to any extent in self-defence or in fear of violence; no
• a belief by the offender that the murder was an act of mercy; no
• the age of the offender. no

The main aggravating factor in this case (IMO) is not listed in this document, which is abuse of alcohol/drugs leading to the offending.

The main mitigating factor not listed in the document, is genuine remorse, lessened possibly by his "Not Guilty" plea. However, IMO, Simon Vickers grief for the loss of his daughter and his role in causing her death is genuine, even if a significant amount of his concern has undoubtedly been towards the criminal consequences of his actions when co-operating with law enforcement, and attempting to pervert the course of justice for his own benefit.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-Murder-sentencing-leaflet-for-web1.pdf

IANAL
JMO

 

[Dotta]

Well, at the risk of being wrong again - I don't think he'll be looking at much more than the bog standard starting point of 15 years, maybe a token uplift, with aggravating and mitigating factors more or less cancelling each other out. Probably very much to the outrage of many, but remember:

"The sentence is not a measure of the value put on the life of the victim."

as to the aggravating and mitigating factors (My assessments BBM):

Aggravating factors are things that make an offence even more serious and increase the minimum term. These
include:

• a significant degree of planning or premeditation; No
• the fact that the victim was particularly vulnerable because of age or disability; Somewhat. Scarlett was 14 years old, not 14 months
• mental or physical suffering inflicted on the victim before death; I've got to be honest. I don't really understand this part of the guidelines because I don't think it's really possible to be murdered without experiencing mental or physical suffering
• the abuse of a position of trust; Yes
• the use of duress or threats to enable the offence to take place; No
• the fact that the victim was providing a public service or performing a public duty; No
• concealing, destroying or dismembering the body. No

Mitigating factors are things that may reduce the minimum term. These include:

• an intention to cause serious bodily harm rather than to kill; probably not. This might be a hot topic of debate in the sentencing hearing
• lack of premeditation; yes
• the offender suffering from a mental disorder or mental disability which lowered his degree of blame; no
• the fact that the offender was provoked (for example, by prolonged stress); I don't think being called "a wimp" would qualify for this mitigation
• the fact that the offender acted to any extent in self-defence or in fear of violence; no
• a belief by the offender that the murder was an act of mercy; no
• the age of the offender. no

The main aggravating factor in this case (IMO) is not listed in this document, which is abuse of alcohol/drugs leading to the offending.

The main mitigating factor not listed in the document, is genuine remorse, lessened possibly by his "Not Guilty" plea. However, IMO, Simon Vickers grief for the loss of his daughter and his role in causing her death is genuine, even if a significant amount of his concern has undoubtedly been towards the criminal consequences of his actions when co-operating with law enforcement, and attempting to pervert the course of justice for his own benefit.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-Murder-sentencing-leaflet-for-web1.pdf

IANAL
JMO

IMO
"abuse of alcohol/drugs leading to the offending"
means for me
"planning or premeditation".

Yep.

What about a person who decides to drive under influence?
Isn't this person a potential murderer?

What about a person who while drunk
becomes violent, unpredictable?
And knows about it.

So...
Reaching out for yet another glass of alcohol and knowing the results on one's behaviour
looks like premeditation to me.

But I'm not a lawyer,
just an ordinary WS poster.

JMO

 

[Rusty Braincells]

DBM

 

[annpats]

Another possibility is that whoever grabbed the knife was trying to use it, and the other adult fought with them and now both their fingerprints are on it.

But you would be able to tell whose fingerprints were stabbing and whose were pulling by the positi of them. You'd hold the knife differently.