UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[WestLondoner]

What would be interesting is interior photos showing the raised area DV refers to as above the void.
How much higher was it than it is today, also how much work would it have taken to lower it?
I find it incredible that workman could take up the floor, lower it and not disturb what’s below!

Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense. DV says that "In 2007, during a purely cosmetic makeover, the stage area had been lowered from above, and the floor put back to its original height, before being tiled over again." You do struggle to follow how he knows that and how it's possible. If the floor were removed and relaid it would IMO muller the idea that SJL is under there - how could you not notice?!

 

[Terryb808]

Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense. DV says that "In 2007, during a purely cosmetic makeover, the stage area had been lowered from above, and the floor put back to its original height, before being tiled over again." You do struggle to follow how he knows that and how it's possible. If the floor were removed and relaid it would IMO muller the idea that SJL is under there - how could you not notice?!

Yes human nature being what it is I’d be surprised if the builders didn’t prod about in whatever debris was below the floor.
It’s entirely possible that (going with DV) SJL might have been there in the short term and them moved.
In the recent live interview on YouTube he answered when asked if he thought the area could be contaminated before the police forensics took place, was no, he had no concerns.
This makes me think that SJL isn’t in the void, but close by in a totally inaccessible area.

 

[Bohobird]

You really would think that the police would routinely search anywhere she might have gone, even if just to be thorough. They seem to have been so mesmerised by the Mr Kipper story that they made a point of not doing so.

Something else occurs to me looking at that photo, which is that there appear to be several entrances to the pub. Could SJL have turned up there without anyone knowing she'd arrived? If the police had DV's view of the world, and wanted to get CV's permission to search the pub, that might be a pretext for doing so: they could that if they could bring the dogs into the pub, they might work out if she'd been there lately. If he says No they go to a judge for a search warrant and say they think her body could be there.

You really would think that the police would routinely search anywhere she might have gone, even if just to be thorough. They seem to have been so mesmerised by the Mr Kipper story that they made a point of not doing so.

Something else occurs to me looking at that photo, which is that there appear to be several entrances to the pub. Could SJL have turned up there without anyone knowing she'd arrived? If the police had DV's view of the world, and wanted to get CV's permission to search the pub, that might be a pretext for doing so: they could that if they could bring the dogs into the pub, they might work out if she'd been there lately. If he says No they go to a judge for a search warrant and say they think her body could be there.

 

[Bohobird]

You really would think that the police would routinely search anywhere she might have gone, even if just to be thorough. They seem to have been so mesmerised by the Mr Kipper story that they made a point of not doing so.

Something else occurs to me looking at that photo, which is that there appear to be several entrances to the pub. Could SJL have turned up there without anyone knowing she'd arrived? If the police had DV's view of the world, and wanted to get CV's permission to search the pub, that might be a pretext for doing so: they could that if they could bring the dogs into the pub, they might work out if she'd been there lately. If he says No they go to a judge for a search warrant and say they think her body could be there.

You really would think that the police would routinely search anywhere she might have gone, even if just to be thorough. They seem to have been so mesmerised by the Mr Kipper story that they made a point of not doing so.

Something else occurs to me looking at that photo, which is that there appear to be several entrances to the pub. Could SJL have turned up there without anyone knowing she'd arrived? If the police had DV's view of the world, and wanted to get CV's permission to search the pub, that might be a pretext for doing so: they could that if they could bring the dogs into the pub, they might work out if she'd been there lately. If he says No they go to a judge for a search warrant and say they think her body could be there.

Could Clive Vole have told Suzy when she spoke to him on the phone (Just before leaving the office) to meet him at the side entrance? Suzy then parking her company car right outside the side entrance totally out of view but not for Vole as he see her pull up ?
IMO I don’t personally believe Clive vole planned or intended to murdered Suzy ,But he obviously read Suzy diary and then when Suzy turned up to get her belongings being the attractive woman she was he made a pass at her,Which she rejected,Did she scream/struggle and then an accident happen??
His wife seems suspicious too,Did she witness this ???

 

[Terryb808]

Could Clive Vole have told Suzy when she spoke to him on the phone (Just before leaving the office) to meet him at the side entrance? Suzy then parking her company car right outside the side entrance totally out of view but not for Vole as he see her pull up ?
IMO I don’t personally believe Clive vole planned or intended to murdered Suzy ,But he obviously read Suzy diary and then when Suzy turned up to get her belongings being the attractive woman she was he made a pass at her,Which she rejected,Did she scream/struggle and then an accident happen??
His wife seems suspicious too,Did she witness this ???

A very logical take on CV and one that explains a few things.

• How he knew where her car was.
• Why she left her purse etc in the drivers side pocket, expecting just to get out collect her things and back into her car.
• Why she didn’t take her handbag, no need if you are just stepping out for a few seconds.

It’s obvious SJL didn’t expect to be away from the office for long, certainly not hours. A trip to the PoW fits with this, it’s probably less than 10 minutes from Whittingstall Road by car.
In this scenario CV would need to get rid of SJL’s car quickly and Stevenage Road has links to the PoW via Fulham supporters. As CV had worked there before he’d know this and it might just be the first place he thought of.
Then subconsciously seeing the Sturgis sign he dumped her car by the sign. Left in a hurry because he had some tidying up to do.

 

[WestLondoner]

That hypothesis does fit much of the evidence, in the sense that there's not a lot to refute it. A potential issue is perhaps the calls to the pub by the unidentified man and woman - but if CV is the only source that these even happened (is he? did his partner take either of those calls?), perhaps they didn't.

The challenge with this being down to CV are that it requires him either to have attacked her pretty much on sight as soon as he took a look at her; or there was no attack, but rather an accident. The circumstances don't seem at all propitious for an attack - his partner was around, for example; and if it was an accident, well, why did CV cover it up?

It also requires there to have been something pretty racy in the diary for it to have triggered CV in this way. Unfortunately nobody other than the police has seen the diary.

 

[asyousay]

CV called the bank so why on earth would he then kill her , why would he also make up the fake phone calls?


Its just completely implausible that he killed her and then buried her with his wife around. It literally reads like bad fiction. Also let’s not forget DV is not in rush to prove his theory is legit and then ask yourself why that is!

 

[Terryb808]

CV called the bank so why on earth would he then kill her , why would he also make up the fake phone calls?


Its just completely implausible that he killed her and then buried her with his wife around. It literally reads like bad fiction. Also let’s not forget DV is not in rush to prove his theory is legit and then ask yourself why that is!

According to DV the pub landlord told CV to contact the bank, if true it was not his decision. We assume his partner was around at the time, we don’t know that she was. Also we assume he wasn’t alone (stock take complete by 12.00).
Like everything in this case we have to make assumptions, on the basis that DV said something like “got knows what he’s been up to in the meantime”. This suggests his research has highlighted some concerns.
Okay he’s not confirmed anything, but I guess he can’t. We assume if CV did this it was his first crime, however, this assumption could be wrong.
I’d say DV is in no hurry because he knows that once found SJL becomes yesterday’s news. He’s put a lot of money into this project and if he’s to continue with other cases needs a return on investment.
I personally don’t begrudge him this, however, SJL’s family deserves closure.

 

[CocktailQueen]

Found this picture (which I have uploaded above). Not sure if the 80’s as not the traditional red phone box (When did the modern ones start appearing ?)This picture has a fence around it also.

It looks like there are red lines on road (ie; a red route) so the photo would be from 1991 or later. Red routes weren’t introduced until 1991.

 

[WestLondoner]

That's a great observation.

DV says the phone kiosks were removed much later - I think he mentions about 2007. I would say that photo must closely resemble the PoW in 1986. The fence would mean that, to use the call box, you'd need to walk out of that little seating area and take a few steps along the road.

I do wonder who'd choose to sit there. It's not exactly the village green with the sound of willow on leather - you're on a busy corner with traffic fumes. You're not forced to sit there if you want to smoke, either, because you could do that indoors in 1986. Did SJL go there unaccompanied just to make a call she didn't want the lodger overhearing, or could she have called AL from there so he wouldn't say Can I come over so we can talk about this? to which she could reply Sorry, I'm actually not in?

 

[asyousay]

Nobody can even confirm this call took place on Sunday night as her ex boyfriends story had holes it in I thought?


He claims she lost her stuff Friday and not the Sunday for example. Whatever the story is he had recently been dumped by her or was about to be.



MOO

 

[WestLondoner]

DV's account has it that SJL went from the beach to her parents' house, possibly to do her laundry as her flat didn't have a washing machine, and that she spoke to AL at about 10.15. The source for the latter seems to be AL's account of when he last actually saw her, which was apparently at about 5.30 in Worthing.

It's arguably somewhat at odds with her flatmate's account of that evening. He said at the time that when she got back from her parents' house, he and she sat around chatting about nothing much for a couple of hours. This doesn't leave much opportunity for a call at 10.15 with AL.

If there was such a call you do wonder about the tone. He's been on holiday and saw her on Friday but she's then unavailable all day Saturday through to Sunday afternoon, when she preferred to go to the beach with her mates than with him. He makes his own way there and not long after he turns up she leaves, again without him. It sounds like she was scraping him off, but what's not clear is if she had told him so or was giving him the cold shoulder and letting him work it out for himself.

 

[asyousay]

DV's account has it that SJL went from the beach to her parents' house, possibly to do her laundry as her flat didn't have a washing machine, and that she spoke to AL at about 10.15. The source for the latter seems to be AL's account of when he last actually saw her, which was apparently at about 5.30 in Worthing.

It's arguably somewhat at odds with her flatmate's account of that evening. He said at the time that when she got back from her parents' house, he and she sat around chatting about nothing much for a couple of hours. This doesn't leave much opportunity for a call at 10.15 with AL.

If there was such a call you do wonder about the tone. He's been on holiday and saw her on Friday but she's then unavailable all day Saturday through to Sunday afternoon, when she preferred to go to the beach with her mates than with him. He makes his own way there and not long after he turns up she leaves, again without him. It sounds like she was scraping him off, but what's not clear is if she had told him so or was giving him the cold shoulder and letting him work it out for himself.

Then add in what was taken from her bag like a raunchy Diary and I believe he lifted it from the bag. A jealous angry boyfriend who had just been dumped or on the brink of it and wants to know what’s going on.



IMO

 

[WestLondoner]

Then add in what was taken from her bag like a raunchy Diary and I believe he lifted it from the bag. A jealous angry boyfriend who had just been dumped or on the brink of it and wants to know what’s going on.



IMO

It wouldn't need to be overtly "raunchy". It could just have names with codes like "!", "!!", "!!!" etc next to them - meaning "snogged", "first base", "back of the net", etc....so AL sees !!! against his own name but against several others too...including the names of mates....

He had an alibi though. As the obvious suspect he was cleared before the police press conference IIRC.

 

[Terryb808]

It wouldn't need to be overtly "raunchy". It could just have names with codes like "!", "!!", "!!!" etc next to them - meaning "snogged", "first base", "back of the net", etc....so AL sees !!! against his own name but against several others too...including the names of mates....

He had an alibi though. As the obvious suspect he was cleared before the police press conference IIRC.

He spent a long time being questioned and was then thrust into the limelight with SJL’s parents.
He was an obvious suspect for the police, you’d have to conclude that they were satisfied with his alibi.
I wonder who provided this alibi, many people or just one very good friend?

 

[WiseOwl]

I too think that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that AL was responsible for the taking of Suzy's things out of her bag on the Friday night.

Suzy's actions over the weekend spoke volumes for me, she didn't want to spend any time with AL at all.

The Sunday night call, according to AL, was about meeting up on the Tuesday night at a party - but why would Suzy want to meet up with him? He says in DV's book that he can't remember who phoned who but it wouldn't surprise me if he made the call to Suzy at her flat that night, maybe to berate her over him being ignored by Suzy over the weekend - perhaps he felt a bit humiliated by her actions?

Even his alibi for the Monday seems a bit vague, stating (in AS's book) that he had meetings during the morning, including one out of the office (what time? how long for?). He then went to lunch with a woman friend in her company's dining room (again, what time & how long for?), then more meetings in the afternoon.

Did the police (knowing as we do now how incompetent they were in the initial investigation) thoroughly check his alibi?

He also said he had tried to phone Suzy in the afternoon at Sturgis at 4.45, and had left a message.

Why did no-one at Sturgis pick up this phone call and what was the message he left?

 

[WestLondoner]

TBH I think if there was the remotest prospect of fitting AL up with this one, the police would have jumped at it immediately.

 

[WiseOwl]

TBH I think if there was the remotest prospect of fitting AL up with this one, the police would have jumped at it immediately.

They would of done nowadays, that's for sure!

 

[asyousay]

He spent a long time being questioned and was then thrust into the limelight with SJL’s parents.
He was an obvious suspect for the police, you’d have to conclude that they were satisfied with his alibi.
I wonder who provided this alibi, many people or just one very good friend?

I am not accusing him of killing her just I believe he is the mystery behind the diary. I think he is the most logical person to have taken it.


MOO

 

[WestLondoner]

It's possible but why the cheque book and postcard as well, and why bother returning them, even via the PoW?