UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[WestLondoner]

But would she go down into a cellar if she suffered from claustrophobia? wouldn't she wait in the bar or hallway and wait for the landlord to bring the items to her.

Probably not - if she knew it was a cellar. Alternatively, what if the door opened onto an unexpected flight of stairs, and she fell down it? That's how the actor David Niven's first wife died. She was among a crowd playing sardines in a house she was not familiar with; she went into what she thought was a closet that was in fact a door and stone steps to the basement.

One tends with DV's theory to assume some sort of spontaneous sexual attack, but he's at pains to point out that this needn't be so, and that maybe someone just covered up an accident. It could be something incredibly banal, like CV realising his career in pub management is over if someone is found dead on the premises he's been managing for one hour. She's dead whatever happens, so cover it up and hope for the best.

 

[Terryb808]

Probably not - if she knew it was a cellar. Alternatively, what if the door opened onto an unexpected flight of stairs, and she fell down it? That's how the actor David Niven's first wife died. She was among a crowd playing sardines in a house she was not familiar with; she went into what she thought was a closet that was in fact a door and stone steps to the basement.

One tends with DV's theory to assume some sort of spontaneous sexual attack, but he's at pains to point out that this needn't be so, and that maybe someone just covered up an accident. It could be something incredibly banal, like CV realising his career in pub management is over if someone is found dead on the premises he's been managing for one hour. She's dead whatever happens, so cover it up and hope for the best.

I read DV’s take on this as you have, it’s possible, but difficult to get your head round any reasonable man covering up a death in order to save his as yet pub landlord job.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

A 22yr old temporary secretary from Australia KR was also in the offfice that day... AS book page 28

I take it she was there to cover for SF who presumably was covering for the negotiator who was on holiday?
I'm guessing she's moved back to Australia since so would be difficult to get in contact with to see if she can corroborate JC's recent claim that he told SL that her car was parked in Radipole Road?

 

[lee sumner]

I dont see too many whys at all SJL went straight to Shorrolds road to meet someoneone she had arranged to meet someone.
I dont believe SJL was the female waiting outside the Stevanage rd property, as I suggested before Shorrolds, Stevanage and possibly other viewings were being carried out by another female Sturgis employe resembling SJL's appearance (hair colour /clothing).
If what we are led to believe is true and a female and male in the Sturgis office were in a relationship and usually spent their lunchtimes together this would have proved difficult on Monday unless they combined viewings they had agreed to cover withrm their lunch breaks.
We know the male had recently celebrated a birthday had which may account for a male carrying a bottle of champagne outside Shorrolds and a couple seen later drinking champagne in the park.

re JC the police suspect.
The champagne I agree could fit with his MO but one witness in Shorrolds reports a fiesta with possibly someone sat in it if as I suspect the male and female Sturgis employee were travelling between viewings together then this could have been a reason why the female would decline the champagne gift from or an invitation to share it over lunch from the viewer Mr KIPPER.

possibly a lucky escape for her, a surprise I would suspect for JC if he had expected SJL to turn up for the viewing.
If SJL was being pestered by someone she named Mr kipper and made her feel uncomfortable in my opinion it would have been completely understandable that she would have asked someone else to do the viewing for her.
If you believe JC the police suspect then its possible he caught up with SJL later I have looked around the area of the grand canal walk sighting of a male ditching a large item into the canal, as JC was working for a theatrical props company I thought the location of the Gillette Building Studios a theatre company is located nearby so is the Sky Studios so he may have visited these in the past. Also worth of note if the self storage units that sit alongside the cananl with an access gate directly onto canal path.

These are my opinions only of a possible senario

the canal was where alice gross was murdered in 2014, and her body was weighted down in the canal. the canal was searched by police divers for weeks, and if suzy was there her remains would have been found.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Did anyone from Sturgis call the PoW about SJLs whereabouts? Do you think Gurdon sounds like policeman?

 

[Terryb808]

the canal was where alice gross was murdered in 2014, and her body was weighted down in the canal. the canal was searched by police divers for weeks, and if suzy was there her remains would have been found.

This was the reason the police gave for not searching it now, when the Gallows Bridge sighting was tabled in a recent documentary.
The canal is dredged approximately every 5 years, back in the 80’s the dredged material was deposited at the side of the canal.
Just wonder if the Gallows Bridge section was searched?

 

[WestLondoner]

On this oft-heard claim that JC looks like Mr Kipper, what is a pity is that the witness who provided those sketches and efits of "Mr Kipper" wasn't also asked to describe the woman he thinks he saw with him, so that sketches of her could be produced.

As the HR sketch at least was produced before SJL's photo was all over the papers, his idea of what the woman looked like could have provided a calibrating data point for the probable accuracy of his "Mr Kipper". If his description of her was nothing like what SJL actually looked like, it would tell you either that it wasn't SJL that he saw, or that if it was, the accuracy of his description of Mr Kipper must likewise be doubtful.

 

[Cluesleuth]

On this oft-heard claim that JC looks like Mr Kipper, what is a pity is that the witness who provided those sketches and efits of "Mr Kipper" wasn't also asked to describe the woman he thinks he saw with him, so that sketches of her could be produced.

As the HR sketch at least was produced before SJL's photo was all over the papers, his idea of what the woman looked like could have provided a calibrating data point for the probable accuracy of his "Mr Kipper". If his description of her was nothing like what SJL actually looked like, it would tell you either that it wasn't SJL that he saw, or that if it was, the accuracy of his description of Mr Kipper must likewise be doubtful.

HR's son in interview with DV says his father never saw the woman only the man.

The police reconstruction at the end of July bought forward literally hundreds of witnesses, AS book page 71.

Two men in particular a 30yr old unemployed bar-cellar man had seen a woman standing outside 37 and a 41yr old unemployed unemployed jeweller who said he had seen a man with the woman too and would give detectives the best discription of the man- better than HR's

In my opinion until we know the movements of the Sturgis staff that day, what viewings were carried out by what person/persons, times and what vehicles were used for which viewings it will remain a confused timeline.

 

[Terryb808]

This was the reason the police gave for not searching it now, when the Gallows Bridge sighting was tabled in a recent documentary.
The canal is dredged approximately every 5 years, back in the 80’s the dredged material was deposited at the side of the canal.
Just wonder if the Gallows Bridge section was searched?

Took a brief look at this, Alice was sighted near Brentford lock, her body was eventually found approximately 2 miles away at Trumpets Way bridge.
It’s entirely possible that the police searched the area around Gallows Bridge. However, given the time between SJL’s disappearance and Alice’s murder it’s unlikely they would have found anything.
Just too many variables to have happened in the years between the two cases.

 

[WestLondoner]

He looks a lot less like JC in this one, doesn't he?

View attachment 352796

"I am personally confident" that HR got his times wrong, and described MG and SF. This would be a complete explanation for why nobody ever came forward to say "that was us": they already had. The police were aware of MG's movements.

In fact, members of the public did phone in to point out that the sketch looked like MG. The police apparently just tittered, apparently thinking the callers were suggesting MG was responsible. Of course, they weren't; they were suggesting that the man sketched was MG, who was a a legitimate visitor to the property, not some shady figure.

This witness meanwhile described someone else. As the police now concede they don't know where they got the keys from, it is quite likely someone random.

I also find it a bit weird that all the key witnesses were unemployed: unemployed barman, unemployed jeweller i.e. shop assistant, unemployed cellarman. Were all these people just bored, and keen to get involved in something interesting?

 

[Cluesleuth]

He looks a lot less like JC in this one, doesn't he?

"I am personally confident" that HR got his times wrong, and described MG and SF. This would be a complete explanation for why nobody ever came forward to say "that was us": they already had. The police were aware of MG's movements.

In fact, members of the public did phone in to point out that the sketch looked like MG. The police apparently just tittered, apparently thinking the callers were suggesting MG was responsible. Of course, they weren't; they were suggesting that the man sketched was MG, who was a a legitimate visitor to the property, not some shady figure.

This witness meanwhile described someone else. As the police now concede they don't know where they got the keys from, it is quite likely someone random.

I also find it a bit weird that all the key witnesses were unemployed: unemployed barman, unemployed jeweller i.e. shop assistant, unemployed cellarman. Were all these people just bored, and keen to get involved in something interesting?

Im not sure I agree that the police now concede they dont know where they got the keys from but yes the occupations of the unemployed did flag up for me.

I think its the bottle of champagne thats got everyone thinking.

 

[Cluesleuth]

37 Shorrold Rd Property details displayed in Sturgis window.... I noticed it had a roof terrace

sorry not a brillant picture

 

[Pinkizzy]

What's with the roof terrace?

 

[Cluesleuth]

This is what makes this thread interesting and helpful. We’re not restrained in our thought process and everyday something new comes up.
It’s a valid observation that doesn’t need someone asking where’s the evidence. You must have these possibilities put forward so they can be looked at.
36 years on the police are just saying the same thing, JC did it, as WestLondoner pointed out they’ve not solved this.
If they had the CPS would have backed them.

I think its very important to keep an open mind.
My intention is not to prove what the police did was wrong but to see if there were things they may have missed that could possibly relate to the crime.

Taken from Murderpedia website -
11. Duffy had 33 door keys each one taken from a victim as a souvenir.

​

 

[Terryb808]

I think its very important to keep an open mind.
My intention is not to prove what the police did was wrong but to see if there were things they may have missed that could possibly relate to the crime.

Taken from Murderpedia website -
11. Duffy had 33 door keys each one taken from a victim as a souvenir.

View attachment 352950

​

I know the police seem to dismiss them, but you’ve managed to find interesting details that could coincidentally fit.
Keys as souvenirs is just one of them, I take it all the keys were identified, victims to keys I mean?

 

[Cluesleuth]

I know the police seem to dismiss them, but you’ve managed to find interesting details that could coincidentally fit.
Keys as souvenirs is just one of them, I take it all the keys were identified, victims to keys I mean?

The articles Ive read dont make it clear how many keys were correctly identified to the victims and how many werent werent.
In 1988 Duffy was convicted with 4 rapes and 2 murders he was acquitted in the AL murder her body had been in the water too long and had destroyed any DNA evidence.
In 2001 Mulcahy was convicted of 7 rapes and 5 conspiracy to rape and 2 murders.

I went back to 1982 and took into account the documented attacks, rapes and murders total 29 leaving a possible 4 keys unidentified.
Not all the victims would have been carrying keys like the 15yr old going to to shop for sweets and being as they were acquitted for the AL so I would presume no key was found to match her home. So a possible 6 keys unidentified in Duffys possession. I havent found any mention that Mulcahy kept keys of the victims as souvenirs

 

[Terryb808]

The articles Ive read dont make it clear how many keys were correctly identified to the victims and how many werent werent.
In 1988 Duffy was convicted with 4 rapes and 2 murders he was acquitted in the AL murder her body had been in the water too long and had destroyed any DNA evidence.
In 2001 Mulcahy was convicted of 7 rapes and 5 conspiracy to rape and 2 murders.

I went back to 1982 and took into account the documented attacks, rapes and murders total 29 leaving a possible 4 keys unidentified.
Not all the victims would have been carrying keys like the 15yr old going to to shop for sweets and being as they were acquitted for the AL so I would presume no key was found to match her home. So a possible 6 keys unidentified in Duffys possession. I havent found any mention that Mulcahy kept keys of the victims as souvenirs

This is very interesting, it’s unlikely that these remaining keys would have been considered in SJL’s case.
The MO and location in north London would have effectively ruled them out.
Having said that it would be worth a look.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Telephone Bills - Telephones UK

telephonesuk.org.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Probably not - if she knew it was a cellar. Alternatively, what if the door opened onto an unexpected flight of stairs, and she fell down it? That's how the actor David Niven's first wife died. She was among a crowd playing sardines in a house she was not familiar with; she went into what she thought was a closet that was in fact a door and stone steps to the basement.

One tends with DV's theory to assume some sort of spontaneous sexual attack, but he's at pains to point out that this needn't be so, and that maybe someone just covered up an accident. It could be something incredibly banal, like CV realising his career in pub management is over if someone is found dead on the premises he's been managing for one hour. She's dead whatever happens, so cover it up and hope for the best.

An innocent person wouldn’t try to cover up an accident or death though, surely?

 

[Cluesleuth]

I thought it might be interesting to see where everyone is with SJL actually being at Shorrolds road.
1. Who believes she went there?
2. Who believes she never went there?