UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #4

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The car to me almost suggests a second person. Where is Suzy when the car is being ditched if there isn’t a 2nd person involved?

Unless it is Suzy with a mystery man going towards Hammersmith but then you still need to kill her and drive back and then pick up another vehicle to get back to wherever you came from.

I maintain no killer is going to use public transport to make a get away.

MOOOOO

I reckon public transport is a pretty good get away method if one is attempting to disappear anonymously (esp in London). Back in the day there was no identification tied into purchasing a train ticket from the station machine and no good quality CCTV in operation. Many stations had no barriers even.

A person could swiftly cover large distances on a tube or overland with little risk compared to the vulnerability of, say, driving a car that the model, colour, and number plate was being circulated on police radio.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Has anyone any idea what the bulky item is in the rear seat of the car? View attachment 366240

Camping equipment? Or picnic / sports equipment (rather a lot of it, mind).

 

[asyousay]

I reckon public transport is a pretty good get away method if one is attempting to disappear anonymously (esp in London). Back in the day there was no identification tied into purchasing a train ticket from the station machine and no good quality CCTV in operation. Many stations had no barriers even.

A person could swiftly cover large distances on a tube or overland with little risk compared to the vulnerability of, say, driving a car that the model, colour, and number plate was being circulated on police radio.

I just personally can not get my head around somebody abducting somebody and then using public transport to make a get away.

I am sure it’s been done but it’s certainly not the norm and also let’s not forgetting if this person didn’t live in London then how would they know where to get a bus/train from and directions and everything else.


There was many mentions of BMW’s so that seems quite viable as an option.


Moo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I just personally can not get my head around somebody abducting somebody and then using public transport to make a get away.

I am sure it’s been done but it’s certainly not the norm and also let’s not forgetting if this person didn’t live in London then how would they know where to get a bus/train from and directions and everything else.


There was many mentions of BMW’s so that seems quite viable as an option.


Moo

Are you referring to the person who fled after ditching SJL's car? If so, we have no idea who that was and if they were local or not and if they felt the need to flee or not. Maybe they just went back home on foot.

 

[Cherwell]

I just personally can not get my head around somebody abducting somebody and then using public transport to make a get away.

I am sure it’s been done but it’s certainly not the norm and also let’s not forgetting if this person didn’t live in London then how would they know where to get a bus/train from and directions and everything else.

If in 1986 I wanted to remove myself from an urban location quickly and a bus came along I wouldn't have thought twice about hopping on. It wouldn't matter where it was going. I would get off at some point near an underground station and make my way from there. It's not difficult to find your way around London using the tube.
It would be riskier now because of CCTV and the way fares are paid, but back then you would have been untraceable.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If in 1986 I wanted to remove myself from an urban location quickly and a bus came along I wouldn't have thought twice about hopping on. It wouldn't matter where it was going. I would get off at some point near an underground station and make my way from there. It's not difficult to find your way around London using the tube.
It would be riskier now because of CCTV and the way fares are paid, but back then you would have been untraceable.

Also the London buses were open backed in those days and you could literally hop on, if you didn't have any money you'd have to hop off again when the ticket conductor got to you!

 

[asyousay]

If in 1986 I wanted to remove myself from an urban location quickly and a bus came along I wouldn't have thought twice about hopping on. It wouldn't matter where it was going. I would get off at some point near an underground station and make my way from there. It's not difficult to find your way around London using the tube.
It would be riskier now because of CCTV and the way fares are paid, but back then you would have been untraceable.

What about the victim they need to get back to one would assume?!


Realistically speaking they wouldn’t have had time to dispose of the body with such a small time frame. So while they are braving the British transport system you would think they would be quite panicked at what they had just done and the crime scene. The Police never made any statements on the person/s using public transport to get away either.

 

[Cluesleuth]

If the Fiesta was parked/abandoned by someone other than SJL on Stevenage rd they may not be the same person that harmed her.

 

[WestLondoner]

What about the victim they need to get back to one would assume?!


Realistically speaking they wouldn’t have had time to dispose of the body with such a small time frame. So while they are braving the British transport system you would think they would be quite panicked at what they had just done and the crime scene. The Police never made any statements on the person/s using public transport to get away either.

In DV's hypothesis the body was pretty safe where it was for the time being. The same would be true in any similar situation, where SJL had been killed or imprisoned inside a building or vehicle where she had parked. It doesn't matter who'd done it, or in what building - another house for sale, a storage unit, wherever. The imperative would be to get the car away from there, as it's a massive flag. the longer it's left where it is, the greater the chance someone sees it and remembers a white Fiesta next to eg a transit van.

So the car was driven hastily to 123SR from wherever SJL was killed or imprisoned. We assume this was nowhere near 37SR, because presumably this obvious possibility was eliminated at the time. So SJL went somewhere else, either after 37SR or directly, having never gone there at all.

Whoever imprisoned SJL there clearly had to get rid of the car quickly. He himself would not necessarily have had to get back quickly. If this was preplanned, maybe her body was hidden out of sight in the back of a van, and his next move is to drive to somewhere remote at night and dispose of her.

However, the way the car was ditched does suggest haste. The driver was anxious to get back, to get away, or perhaps to get to a place before he was missed or so as to establish an alibi. Given this I'd be surprised if he took a bus - not quick enough. A cab maybe.

 

[Cherwell]

However, the way the car was ditched does suggest haste. The driver was anxious to get back, to get away, or perhaps to get to a place before he was missed or so as to establish an alibi. Given this I'd be surprised if he took a bus - not quick enough. A cab maybe.

A bus would do to get him away from the car quickly, if there was one coming. He would only need to stay on it for a few stops, then alight near a tube station or indeed any busy street where he could hail a cab. Safer to get a cab well away from where the car was left, as it would inevitably be found and witnesses sought.

 

[Cluesleuth]

From the recent TV documentary on the PICK Channel The Suzy Lamplugh Mystery 2/2 -(sorry no link avail)
23 minutes in Peter Johnson says
Professionally I mean we know hes committed of a terrible crime against Shirley Banks and rightfully hes in prison and in my view should remain there. Theres been a lot of speculation in the media about him being the man thats responsible I cant really add anything more to that but to say that at my time when I was on it we didnt have any direct evidence.

The narrator says - and today one veteran investigator maintains he never saw enough evidence to charge Canaan.

at 31 minutes in Peter Johnson goes on to say
Believe me I was involved in this case for a long time, I spent 2 years of my life and I got to know Mr & Mrs Lamplugh extremely well and I would have done anything to be to resolve this case for them so we could put this matter to rest for them, but unfortunately we werent able to do that. At that time I was on it there was no substantial evidence or even heavy circumstanstail evidence that I could have taken to a court. Just not enough evidence.

 

[WestLondoner]

Interesting - so, paraphrasing, even if he didn't actually do this one, he's a wrong 'un and ought to stay inside.

I can sort of see the logic of that, but where it fails is that if JC didn't do this, then whoever did remained at large, which you'd think would be at least as important a priority as keeping Cannan inside.

 

[Cherwell]

Interesting - so, paraphrasing, even if he didn't actually do this one, he's a wrong 'un and ought to stay inside.

I can sort of see the logic of that, but where it fails is that if JC didn't do this, then whoever did remained at large, which you'd think would be at least as important a priority as keeping Cannan inside.

Surely he's only saying that JC should remain in prison because of the crimes he's been proven guilty of committing. Which is entirely separate from the SL case. From the bits quoted here it's not even clear if he thinks JC was responsible for SL's disappearance.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

A bus would do to get him away from the car quickly, if there was one coming. He would only need to stay on it for a few stops, then alight near a tube station or indeed any busy street where he could hail a cab. Safer to get a cab well away from where the car was left, as it would inevitably be found and witnesses sought.

Abandoning the white fiesta must have been to avoid bringing suspicion to the location where something happened to SJL -or- avoid bringing suspicion to the location connected to the person who did something to SJL. That means it had first been driven to that location which may or may not have been 37SR. Or that it was driven from 37SR to another location which was where SJL was harmed / detained and likely to bring suspicion to the perpetrator. So they had to move it. Did they move SJL in her own vehicle in broad daylight?

Getting away from the abandoned car as fast as possible would be obvious as it implicates a in the crime -but, also- maybe to return to SJL who is still alive / return to SJL who was already dead -or- to go somewhere else (work maybe?) and act like normal as if nothing had happened then return to SJL later. Or she died at a location where she was 'disposed of', left forever and not discovered.

 

[asyousay]

Interesting - so, paraphrasing, even if he didn't actually do this one, he's a wrong 'un and ought to stay inside.

I can sort of see the logic of that, but where it fails is that if JC didn't do this, then whoever did remained at large, which you'd think would be at least as important a priority as keeping Cannan inside.

But he hasn’t been charged so he isn’t being kept in because Of Suzy.


It’s so frustrating that so little evidence was found. Like was SR front door finger printed for example to see if they could prove she been there?

Just basic stuff I feel like we are missing . Did LE search properties that Sturgis had on their books in a close vicinity to SR?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Interesting - so, paraphrasing, even if he didn't actually do this one, he's a wrong 'un and ought to stay inside.

I can sort of see the logic of that, but where it fails is that if JC didn't do this, then whoever did remained at large, which you'd think would be at least as important a priority as keeping Cannan inside.

I wonder if it's a double edged sword 'he's a wrong un and can take the blame' plus 'person who did this didn't intend to and is not actually a cold hearted killer and unlikely to do it ever again and we can't quite prove it anyway'.

 

[RichardKimble]

But he hasn’t been charged so he isn’t being kept in because Of Suzy.


It’s so frustrating that so little evidence was found. Like was SR front door finger printed for example to see if they could prove she been there?

Just basic stuff I feel like we are missing . Did LE search properties that Sturgis had on their books in a close vicinity to SR?

Was there never a search of properties then ?

 

[WestLondoner]

Police interest in Cannan seems to have ratcheted up when the law changed so that he had a release date rather than a whole of life tariff. A factor in his release would then be if he was implicated in any other grounds, but this would be a Parole Board judgement on the balance of probabilities. If the police say he is the only suspect in the SJL case that is likely enough to keep him inside. So in that way, his whole of life tariff is reinstated.

If the goal is to keep him in jail it works, although he's likely to die soon anyway so that release will never be considered.

While I actually sympathise with this objective, the issue with this strategy is that pinning SJL on Cannan to keep him in jail forces LE to shun other lines of inquiry. If they dig up the PoW and it's found to have been someone else after all, the residual objection to releasing Cannan falls away, and he would get out. He now won't anyway, but if his name is cleared, there is still potential reputational harm to the police in having pursued the Cannan line in error for so long. You don't need to be an ardent conspiracy theorist to infer that there might be quite a lot of reasons for those in authority not to be too interested in getting to the bottom of this one.

 

[Terryb808]

Police interest in Cannan seems to have ratcheted up when the law changed so that he had a release date rather than a whole of life tariff. A factor in his release would then be if he was implicated in any other grounds, but this would be a Parole Board judgement on the balance of probabilities. If the police say he is the only suspect in the SJL case that is likely enough to keep him inside. So in that way, his whole of life tariff is reinstated.

If the goal is to keep him in jail it works, although he's likely to die soon anyway so that release will never be considered.

While I actually sympathise with this objective, the issue with this strategy is that pinning SJL on Cannan to keep him in jail forces LE to shun other lines of inquiry. If they dig up the PoW and it's found to have been someone else after all, the residual objection to releasing Cannan falls away, and he would get out. He now won't anyway, but if his name is cleared, there is still potential reputational harm to the police in having pursued the Cannan line in error for so long. You don't need to be an ardent conspiracy theorist to infer that there might be quite a lot of reasons for those in authority not to be too interested in getting to the bottom of this one.

Agree 100%. It all depend on the real reason. Did they just want DL off their backs? And used JC to do this, they’d accepted that they were not going to solve the case.
Or were they pressured into it by A.N.Other, you just don’t know.
On the face of it now and with the info in AS’s book (and no JC) there is just no evidence. So it’s unsolvable without finding SJL, on this basis we have to hope DV is right.

 

[lee sumner]

suzy knew a man named leslie skipper who lived on shorrolds rd. he was a journalist on holiday at the time, and the investigation team believe that is why she wrote down the mr kipper entry in her diary.