UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Terryb808]

A completely reckless murderer with zero 'underworld' life contacts manages to dispose of an entire body that is never found? I'm not buying it.

IMO either she really is on the railway banking or something happened at the PoW vicinity -or- someone knew exactly how to ensure she will never be found and had the time, resources, and access to whatever / however to make sure of that. Whether she's buried in the foundations of a building site or six foot under in someone's back garden, they had capacity to think about it not act rashly.

Given her secretive lifestyle it’s entirely possible that there were people in her life with just those capabilities.
The total lack of evidence makes just about every scenario possible, from the random moment of madness in the PoW, to the cold calculated disposal of a person that’s risking a lucrative criminal venture.

 

[lee sumner]

Given her secretive lifestyle it’s entirely possible that there were people in her life with just those capabilities.
The total lack of evidence makes just about every scenario possible, from the random moment of madness in the PoW, to the cold calculated disposal of a person that’s risking a lucrative criminal venture.

yes, in AS book it says SL was always secretive which just makes the case even more mysterious.

 

[Terryb808]

yes, in AS book it says SL was always secretive which just makes the case even more mysterious.

It would have been a nightmare for the detectives back in 86, plus mom & dad decided that the extremely suspect business deal she was working on wasn’t important.
It might have made all the difference and changed the police focus altogether.

 

[lee sumner]

It would have been a nightmare for the detectives back in 86, plus mom & dad decided that the extremely suspect business deal she was working on wasn’t important.
It might have made all the difference and changed the police focus altogether.

iam starting to think the deals SL talked about before she went missing could be the key to unlocking the mystery.

 

[ChocolateChip]

IMO

I’ve been drawn back to this case. Having read through everyone’s opinions on here, it’s clear there are many persons of interest.

You’d have thought LE would keep the car in Police storage. What about the diary? Who has that now? I wonder if they located everyone in it at a later date.

Going with one suspect with no hard evidence at all makes the real perpetrator(s) get away with it.

I am more inclined to believe BW’s sighting. It’s backed up by her appointment on that day which checked out.

On the phone half seated, half standing suggests SL was in a hurry. Whatever she was going to do, couldn’t wait. And it seemed very important. She took her purse which she wouldn’t have needed for a viewing. Why? Lunch?

Regards the diary entry, the rule is always to get the client’s contact details if nothing else. Yet there were none. Neither were there other details which every client should be asked to determine which position they’re in. For example, cash buyer, first time buyer, investor, property to sell, exchange etc. Therefore, the diary entry could well be false and SL was meeting someone else for an important lunch meeting.

Before mobile phones, you would arrange to meet people at a certain location at a certain time. So SL could well have given the address as 37SR as a meeting point.

Why was SL driving? Did he not have a vehicle? How was he getting to 37SR? By taxi? If SL was held or killed in a private residence, nobody would know. Unless her car’s parked outside. Must get rid of that. Take it back to SR. Dump it. Get away fast. Purse still in the car suggests she didn’t end up going for lunch.

So from 12:40 to 2:40, he may have wanted to see other properties in the area or move the car to a more isolated street to discuss things. So they go to SR. They discuss whatever it was that was so important. Then an argument. Arguments can take up a lot of time. SL isn’t agreeing with him no matter what he tries. She needs to get back to work as she only came out for lunch and a viewing. She can’t get away with being out for 2 hours! So he gives in and agrees with her but asks her to drop him off at home. It’s the least she can do etc. But he was luring her back to his to try and force her physically to change her mind or teach her a lesson. He couldn’t do this in public.

But who was he? Is his name and contact details in her diary?

 

[Terryb808]

IMO

I’ve been drawn back to this case. Having read through everyone’s opinions on here, it’s clear there are many persons of interest.

You’d have thought LE would keep the car in Police storage. What about the diary? Who has that now? I wonder if they located everyone in it at a later date.

Going with one suspect with no hard evidence at all makes the real perpetrator(s) get away with it.

I am more inclined to believe BW’s sighting. It’s backed up by her appointment on that day which checked out.

On the phone half seated, half standing suggests SL was in a hurry. Whatever she was going to do, couldn’t wait. And it seemed very important. She took her purse which she wouldn’t have needed for a viewing. Why? Lunch?

Regards the diary entry, the rule is always to get the client’s contact details if nothing else. Yet there were none. Neither were there other details which every client should be asked to determine which position they’re in. For example, cash buyer, first time buyer, investor, property to sell, exchange etc. Therefore, the diary entry could well be false and SL was meeting someone else for an important lunch meeting.

Before mobile phones, you would arrange to meet people at a certain location at a certain time. So SL could well have given the address as 37SR as a meeting point.

Why was SL driving? Did he not have a vehicle? How was he getting to 37SR? By taxi? If SL was held or killed in a private residence, nobody would know. Unless her car’s parked outside. Must get rid of that. Take it back to SR. Dump it. Get away fast. Purse still in the car suggests she didn’t end up going for lunch.

So from 12:40 to 2:40, he may have wanted to see other properties in the area or move the car to a more isolated street to discuss things. So they go to SR. They discuss whatever it was that was so important. Then an argument. Arguments can take up a lot of time. SL isn’t agreeing with him no matter what he tries. She needs to get back to work as she only came out for lunch and a viewing. She can’t get away with being out for 2 hours! So he gives in and agrees with her but asks her to drop him off at home. It’s the least she can do etc. But he was luring her back to his to try and force her physically to change her mind or teach her a lesson. He couldn’t do this in public.

But who was he? Is his name and contact details in her diary?

An excellent summary and one that perfectly fits the most reliable witness BW sighting.
As I’ve said before BW saw SJL and the perpetrator realised this, he needed to deflect attention from where he was going and abandoned her car in SR.
Again I’ve said that the time her car appeared in SR gives you a maximum travel distance and this (if the road workers are accurate) should be after 4.00pm & before 5.00pm when the owner of the garage got home.
You can draw a circle and focus on the area in the general direction they were travelling, then think about who might have been living in this area.
In your summary you point out that the person she was meeting was no ordinary Sturgis client, therefore, it must be someone she knew and sadly trusted.
If it had been a casual client she would not have spent nearly 2 hours with them.
This should narrow down the suspects somewhat.
1. Who had a motive?
2. Who didn’t effectively have an alibi?
3. Who made the calls to the PoW & how did they know she might be going there?
Point 3 assumes the temp pub landlord remembers events accurately and is actually telling the truth.

My own views agree almost 100% with your summary.

 

[ChocolateChip]

An excellent summary and one that perfectly fits the most reliable witness BW sighting.
As I’ve said before BW saw SJL and the perpetrator realised this, he needed to deflect attention from where he was going and abandoned her car in SR.
Again I’ve said that the time her car appeared in SR gives you a maximum travel distance and this (if the road workers are accurate) should be after 4.00pm & before 5.00pm when the owner of the garage got home.
You can draw a circle and focus on the area in the general direction they were travelling, then think about who might have been living in this area.
In your summary you point out that the person she was meeting was no ordinary Sturgis client, therefore, it must be someone she knew and sadly trusted.
If it had been a casual client she would not have spent nearly 2 hours with them.
This should narrow down the suspects somewhat.
1. Who had a motive?
2. Who didn’t effectively have an alibi?
3. Who made the calls to the PoW & how did they know she might be going there?
Point 3 assumes the temp pub landlord remembers events accurately and is actually telling the truth.

My own views agree almost 100% with your summary.

IMO

It seems to me that this person was the most familiar with Stevenage Road in Fulham. Had he lived there in the past? Had he sold a property there in the past? Did he have a property on that street? Did he have relations on that street? Was he a middleman for investors? Did he find a property for an investor on that street? Was he interested at anytime in purchasing a property on that street? What links this man to Stevenage Road? Did he often meet SL on that street?

I agree with the car being dumped between 4pm and 5pm. SL also wouldn’t go back to his if it was a long way away. She had to get back to work. Presuming it was a maximum 20 minute drive from Stevenage Road and taking into account the BW sighting, of course you can draw a circle on a map to say where this man took SL.

My opinion is that this man was a business associate regards property. If it was a personal relationship, they would have met at the weekend. Also, the family have said that she was talking about jointly purchasing a property with somebody. Had this man put a deposit down on a property for them both? Is that why he was clutching property sales particulars and a bottle of champagne?

SL backed out of the deal. An argument occurred. She didn’t back down so he ended up killing her.

I’m also leaning towards just one man being involved. However, another person could have found out at the murder scene. But if a second person is involved, it may be a relative of the perpetrator. Otherwise, people talk and this case is watertight.

So who put a deposit down on a property in London on that Monday morning? Who bought champagne?

Who lived or bought and sold property on Stevenage road in the 80s up to August 1986?

Did Sturgis provide LE with a list of clients both current and previous?

In my opinion, the answers are there. It just requires somebody to look further into this line of enquiry.

 

[WestLondoner]

The supposed Mr Kipper, if any such person existed, was clearly a personal and not a business contact of SJL which is why there was no record of any such person in the office contact files. There may have been a record of him in her personal diary but he was clearly never identified.

I am interested that there were allegedly other contacts by a "Mr Kipper" with other local estate agents at the time and that were supposedly reported to the inquiry at the time. This should have been a promising lead if true. Even if this character never appeared in person at any agency, he would have had to provide some sort of details about himself in order to be regarded as a serious contact rather than just a timewaster. At some point, he would have had to put in an appearance somewhere.

It is not clear from what I have read if this did in fact happen and all such details were found to be false, or if this was yet another avenue of inquiry that was missed. If other agents had been approached, it says there really was a guy calling himself that trying to make viewing appointments. That would suggest that SJL perhaps fell for this and really did go to 37SR.

All you ever hear about Mr Kipper in subsequent media, however, is that this was the name in the diary, and that this was obviously Cannan, QED. You never come across any audit of whether the name was simply a convenient fabrication by SJL rather than an abductor.

 

[Terryb808]

The supposed Mr Kipper, if any such person existed, was clearly a personal and not a business contact of SJL which is why there was no record of any such person in the office contact files. There may have been a record of him in her personal diary but he was clearly never identified.

I am interested that there were allegedly other contacts by a "Mr Kipper" with other local estate agents at the time and that were supposedly reported to the inquiry at the time. This should have been a promising lead if true. Even if this character never appeared in person at any agency, he would have had to provide some sort of details about himself in order to be regarded as a serious contact rather than just a timewaster. At some point, he would have had to put in an appearance somewhere.

It is not clear from what I have read if this did in fact happen and all such details were found to be false, or if this was yet another avenue of inquiry that was missed. If other agents had been approached, it says there really was a guy calling himself that trying to make viewing appointments. That would suggest that SJL perhaps fell for this and really did go to 37SR.

All you ever hear about Mr Kipper in subsequent media, however, is that this was the name in the diary, and that this was obviously Cannan, QED. You never come across any audit of whether the name was simply a convenient fabrication by SJL rather than an abductor.

What would maybe answer some, if not all these questions would be a chat with the Met detective MB.
The Met probably feel that armchair detectives are a waste of time, however, some have an enormous amount of knowledge and an analytical approach a lot of theories could be eliminated.

 

[ChocolateChip]

The supposed Mr Kipper, if any such person existed, was clearly a personal and not a business contact of SJL which is why there was no record of any such person in the office contact files. There may have been a record of him in her personal diary but he was clearly never identified.

I am interested that there were allegedly other contacts by a "Mr Kipper" with other local estate agents at the time and that were supposedly reported to the inquiry at the time. This should have been a promising lead if true. Even if this character never appeared in person at any agency, he would have had to provide some sort of details about himself in order to be regarded as a serious contact rather than just a timewaster. At some point, he would have had to put in an appearance somewhere.

It is not clear from what I have read if this did in fact happen and all such details were found to be false, or if this was yet another avenue of inquiry that was missed. If other agents had been approached, it says there really was a guy calling himself that trying to make viewing appointments. That would suggest that SJL perhaps fell for this and really did go to 37SR.

All you ever hear about Mr Kipper in subsequent media, however, is that this was the name in the diary, and that this was obviously Cannan, QED. You never come across any audit of whether the name was simply a convenient fabrication by SJL rather than an abductor.

IMO
One thing that may cast doubt on my opinion is that the 6pm appointment in the work diary also only included a name and no contact details. I wonder if there were contact details for this 6pm viewing on other paperwork in the office.

If other agents were getting contacted by a Mr Kipper then he would have been easy to track down. Because even if SL never took his contact details, they would have. You do not let a prospective purchaser hang up without getting their contact details. So that you can follow up with calls and sell to them thus making your commission. Talking about commission, £3,000 seems far too much for commission earned from property sales. Even if this was a month’s worth, it is excessive. So where was this money really coming from? Was her bank account checked?

If Kipper was a prospective buyer, would Suzy drive him to another property? Would she spend over 2 hours with him? No lunch. Wouldn’t she make an excuse and tell him she had to get back to the office and that he’d have to book in for bookings of other properties at a different time. Experienced negotiators can tell if the person is a time waster or not. Serious buyers viewed properties in the evenings.

If SL hadn’t then the other estate agents would have asked Mr Kipper for his phone number. No phone? Then an address.

 

[ChocolateChip]

If you’re moving from Putney/Fulham/Hammersmith/Shepherd’s Bush and have £2 million to spend, where would you move to, Mayfair? Any other areas considered better within that price range in London?

 

[WestLondoner]

IMO
One thing that may cast doubt on my opinion is that the 6pm appointment in the work diary also only included a name and no contact details. I wonder if there were contact details for this 6pm viewing on other paperwork in the office.

Definitely - the 6pm one was a second viewing. SJL would surely have been keeping her boss informed of progress on various sales; I don't see how anyone gets to a second viewing without having been checked out as not a timewaster.

If other agents were getting contacted by a Mr Kipper then he would have been easy to track down. Because even if SL never took his contact details, they would have.

I agree, you'd think so. So one possibility is that other agents were contacted by a Mr Kipper and they passed contact details to the police at the time, but on checking they all turned out to be false, nor had any of these other agents ever met this Mr Kipper in person; = a dead end. Another is that there were no such contemporary reports made to the inquiry; it has just been made up ex post, like Cannan's kipper tie, his love of smoked seafood, and his propensity to take little naps. Yet another is that such contacts were reported to the inquiry and details given, but the police dropped the ball....again.

IMO
Talking about commission, £3,000 seems far too much for commission earned from property sales. Even if this was a month’s worth, it is excessive. So where was this money really coming from? Was her bank account checked?

It's fairly easily explained. SJL told people at the party she was at on Saturday that she was expecting this sum "soon". The party was on the 26th July so "soon" probably just meant "on payday", which was almost certainly going to be Thursday 31st July. So that explains the timing.

As for the amount, well, a mate of mine was an estate agent (firm called Faron Sutaria - still around I think) in 1990 / 91 in Notting Hill - so not far away from Fulham '86 in time or space. He told me that if he won the instruction he got 15% of the agency's fee, and if he got the sale, he got a further 15% of the fee. The other 70% went to management and overhead. The fee was typically 2 to 2.5% of the price at the time. So potentially, if he sold a £200,000 property, he'd make 15% of 2.5% of £200,000 which is £750. If he had won the instruction on it as well he'd make £1,500.

There had been a huge property crash between 1986 and 1991 so the property prices involved would have been similar. Thus, for SJL to make £3,000 gross, she needed to have sold at least two and perhaps as many as six (cheaper) properties. To make £3,000 net of tax, well, taxes were much lower then, so maybe four to eight properties, max. She probably had an objective to sell one a week anyway. So doing eight sales in a month would be a big month, and would get her a bigger bonus than usual, but it's well within what her likely pay structure was set up to reward.

In summary - for my money, the £3,000 commission was just her normal work earnings from winning instructions and selling property.

If Kipper was a prospective buyer, would Suzy drive him to another property? Would she spend over 2 hours with him? No lunch. Wouldn’t she make an excuse and tell him she had to get back to the office and that he’d have to book in for bookings of other properties at a different time.

Absolutely. She'd just say Sorry, have to get back, come back with me and I can look at my diary and we can sort out times.

We're also still left with the mystery of how her car's seat was found parked in a hurry, with the seat in a position she would not have used, and with the passenger door locked but the driver door unlocked. It doesn't look to me like anyone got out of the passenger side, nor does it look like she was driving, so I conclude she was not in the car when it got to 123SR.

If she was elsewhere while her abductor got rid of her car, then she was either already dead by then, or was being held somewhere. This place had to be nearby - so her abductor could get rid of her car ASAP, but also so he could return there, presumably on foot, also ASAP. That says to me a cellar, a basement, or possibly a lock-up garage in a place where calls for help wouldn't be heard. Whoever did this had access to property nearby - which IMO probably means an accomplice.

 

[WestLondoner]

If you’re moving from Putney/Fulham/Hammersmith/Shepherd’s Bush and have £2 million to spend, where would you move to, Mayfair? Any other areas considered better within that price range in London?

The character of London villages can change within a street or two. East of Fulham is Chelsea which is smart, but north is Earl's Court and north-west is Hammersmith which are both a bit 5hit. East across the river you have Battersea, then laughingly known as B-TER-see-ah to make it sound posh when it was well rough. South across the river is Putney which was genteel by 1986 but not as smart as Fulham.

I'm surprised at the Rightmove claims of SJL's Disraeli Road flat's current value because it's unremarkable, not that big and seems remarkably pricey compared to much more desirable areas like Little Venice or Hampstead. If you lived round there and had a decent wedge to spend you'd head for Chelsea or Mayfair I would say.

 

[Terryb808]

Over the last few posts it seems all the parts of the puzzle are there and fit together.
It defies logic why the police didn’t reach these conclusions back in 86.
Or maybe they did and just couldn’t bottom out who SJL met and who Mr Kipper was.
Let’s face it, if they’d reviewed criminals recently released from the scrubs we’d not be talking about JC today.
He’d have either been arrested then, or justifiably eliminated. Now it’s far too late and even if he’s innocent, he revels in the attention.
There are others who should have (or maybe were looked at), former boyfriends, long term boyfriends (who went missing in the days after SJL disappeared and possibly business partners who even today maintain a very low profile.
DV took a totally new line and focused on the simplest possible explanation of all, that being the PoW pub.
While the theory itself holds up, even to the point where SJL’s car is abandoned in SR. There’s no actual evidence to support his conclusions, if he has more, it’s time to finish the job.

 

[ChocolateChip]

IMO

The car is the biggest piece of evidence. It should have been kept by Police.

We all agree that the car was dumped on Stevenage away from the crime scene. On the basis that the seat was moved back, parked in a quick fashion, only driver’s door left open, handbrake down. And allegedly a partial fingerprint was recovered from the rear view mirror (stated by first SIO JD in some publications). However, nothing has been gained from this. There would most certainly have been DNA on other parts of the car. Or was the perpetrator wearing gloves? Even so, he wouldn’t have been wearing them when in the passenger seat with SL. That’s a job for the Police, we certainly can’t do anything about that. All we can hope is that something comes out of that partial print, if there was indeed one found and stored.

BW saw SL driving with a male passenger on FP Road past the cemetery. Therefore, we can deduce that north from the cemetery we have the following potential areas: North Fulham, Hammersmith, Shepherd’s Bush.

If we had the personal diary contacts, we could check out the names on there. But again, we don’t have that information.

So the only possible thing we can do is go through electoral records from 1985/6 to find males that lived alone. But this would be a huge task. He may not have even been registered on the electoral register but then again he could have been.

I tend to lean more towards a lone male perpetrator without an accomplice. Reasons being, it’s been kept a secret for this long and BW saw one man only in the passenger seat.

Nobody recalls seeing SL or her car anywhere other than the vicinity of Shorrolds, Stevenage and Fulham Palace Road. So, did this perpetrator take SL to a house with a driveway, a secluded property, a house with a garage, another isolated location?

 

[WestLondoner]

It may not have been kept secret. Joseph Taggart came forward around 2000 to say that he had shared a car with Cannan in 1986, and to provide various other information purporting to incriminate him. This character is almost certainly the person whose information persuaded he police that JC was Kipper.

The trouble with Taggart for me is that he was thoroughly dishonest his whole life long, and provided no tangible evidence for Cannan's involvement - like, where did he take SJL and where is her body. In fact, it's hard to see how Taggart could have known what Cannan was up to that day unless he was himself somehow involved - perhaps as the provider of the

house with a driveway, a secluded property, a house with a garage

that you mention. Which he could have been: he had a council flat with a garage about 10 minutes' walk from Shorrolds.

So he either knows too much and concealed key stuff to minimise his own involvement, or he knew nothing and simply amplified what he'd seen in the papers about Cannan in return for some unspecified good turn by the police.

I find it bizarre that neither Taggart's garage nor the original SuperHire premises in Acton, where Cannan worked, were ever searched. If they think he did this why have they never searched his known haunts? She could be under a garage floor in Fulham.

 

[lee sumner]

IMO
One thing that may cast doubt on my opinion is that the 6pm appointment in the work diary also only included a name and no contact details. I wonder if there were contact details for this 6pm viewing on other paperwork in the office.

If other agents were getting contacted by a Mr Kipper then he would have been easy to track down. Because even if SL never took his contact details, they would have. You do not let a prospective purchaser hang up without getting their contact details. So that you can follow up with calls and sell to them thus making your commission. Talking about commission, £3,000 seems far too much for commission earned from property sales. Even if this was a month’s worth, it is excessive. So where was this money really coming from? Was her bank account checked?

If Kipper was a prospective buyer, would Suzy drive him to another property? Would she spend over 2 hours with him? No lunch. Wouldn’t she make an excuse and tell him she had to get back to the office and that he’d have to book in for bookings of other properties at a different time. Experienced negotiators can tell if the person is a time waster or not. Serious buyers viewed properties in the evenings.

If SL hadn’t then the other estate agents would have asked Mr Kipper for his phone number. No phone? Then an address.

yes, did SL fill in a client requirement card for joanna, 43 waldermar rd. she did not for mr kipper, so iam curious.

 

[Terryb808]

It may not have been kept secret. Joseph Taggart came forward around 2000 to say that he had shared a car with Cannan in 1986, and to provide various other information purporting to incriminate him. This character is almost certainly the person whose information persuaded he police that JC was Kipper.

The trouble with Taggart for me is that he was thoroughly dishonest his whole life long, and provided no tangible evidence for Cannan's involvement - like, where did he take SJL and where is her body. In fact, it's hard to see how Taggart could have known what Cannan was up to that day unless he was himself somehow involved - perhaps as the provider of the

that you mention. Which he could have been: he had a council flat with a garage about 10 minutes' walk from Shorrolds.

So he either knows too much and concealed key stuff to minimise his own involvement, or he knew nothing and simply amplified what he'd seen in the papers about Cannan in return for some unspecified good turn by the police.

I find it bizarre that neither Taggart's garage nor the original SuperHire premises in Acton, where Cannan worked, were ever searched. If they think he did this why have they never searched his known haunts? She could be under a garage floor in Fulham.

For SJL to be buried under the floor in Taggart’s garage would mean Taggart was an accomplice.
I have no idea what Taggert was like and how he’d react to suddenly having a dead SJL in his garage.
If he panicked then I can see them burying SJL in the garage.
However, JC is (as far as we know) not into burial as a disposal method, he appears to be drawn to water. He must believe (and rightly) that time in water gets rid of any possible evidence.
It’s an odd coincidence that the Mets JD came up with the mysterious lorry driver and the Brent river / canal disposal.
IMO the timing is perfect if SJL was still alive and being kept hostage.
I don’t think JD would make this up as I get the impression he’s short on detailed knowledge, so the person who gave him the lorry driver story either knew a lot about the case, or just picked a good date by accident.

 

[ChocolateChip]

It may not have been kept secret. Joseph Taggart came forward around 2000 to say that he had shared a car with Cannan in 1986, and to provide various other information purporting to incriminate him. This character is almost certainly the person whose information persuaded he police that JC was Kipper.

The trouble with Taggart for me is that he was thoroughly dishonest his whole life long, and provided no tangible evidence for Cannan's involvement - like, where did he take SJL and where is her body. In fact, it's hard to see how Taggart could have known what Cannan was up to that day unless he was himself somehow involved - perhaps as the provider of the

that you mention. Which he could have been: he had a council flat with a garage about 10 minutes' walk from Shorrolds.

So he either knows too much and concealed key stuff to minimise his own involvement, or he knew nothing and simply amplified what he'd seen in the papers about Cannan in return for some unspecified good turn by the police.

I find it bizarre that neither Taggart's garage nor the original SuperHire premises in Acton, where Cannan worked, were ever searched. If they think he did this why have they never searched his known haunts? She could be under a garage floor in Fulham.

What was Taggart’s address?

 

[ChocolateChip]

However, JC is (as far as we know) not into burial as a disposal method, he appears to be drawn to water. He must believe (and rightly) that time in water gets rid of any possible evidence.

I agree. I can’t see JC digging a grave. Neither can I see him working with an accomplice. However, I can see him bragging to people that it was he who was responsible for the disappearance when in fact he isn’t. He would like to have been involved with SL though. MOO