UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

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  • #521
We don't really know where or when she lost her chequebook. The complete and total incuriosity about this from everyone - the police, documentary makers, workmates, family - persisted until DV came along.

All we really know is that her chequebook and diary turned up at the pub by Monday 28/7. Someone at the pub rang the bank named on the chequebook. The bank had SJL's office number handy. They rang her and told her where the cheque book was. She rang the pub to arrange to collect it.

Those seem to be the facts. Then there's the conjecture.

Conjecturally, she seems to have rung the pub twice. The obvious time to go fetch it was after work, but a viewing request came in for 6pm, meaning she'd need to rearrange this collection if that had been what was agreed. In theory she could have just shown up late, but you can't be sure that someone you're speaking to at 11 in the morning is still going to be there at work at 7 that night or whenever.

We do not know when she lost her stuff at the PoW. In a TV documentary in the late 80s / early 90s, AL claims they went to the pub on Friday and a lovely evening was marred by the loss of her diary. More recently, he has said they never went to the PoW ever, and were in fact at Mossop's, a fairly smart restaurant next door, and it was Sunday. So at least one of those accounts is misremembered, and leaves us wondering about the movements through time and space of SJL's stuff between Friday and Sunday, or between the pub and the restaurant. CV and the landlord are adamant the diary etc were found on Sunday night.

Complicating this is that AL had clearly been chucked while he was on holiday, and that weekend was when he found out. So we don't know whether either of his accounts is to be believed.

DV's hypothesis about the PoW has legs because none of this was checked at the time.

We should remember that DL was so bat54it crazy she tried to get the libel laws changed to protect the reputation of a dead person. What she found out about SJL after her disappearance persuaded DL that her daughter had been - by her own religious lights, I emphasise, and absolutely nobody else's - a right slapper. She had uncomplicatedly slept with various boyfriends - perhaps three or four, perhaps 103 or 104. Either way she was harming nobody. But DL needed this not to be true, or at least not known, and in fact keeping this quiet was more important to her than finding her daughter's killer. Even though AL had been binned the week before, she therefore enlisted him in the charade of presenting SJL as what DL's generation would have called "a good girl", with one nice steady bloke. AL, maybe out of sympathy for a grief-stricken and bereaved woman, just played along. The police shouldn't have done so, and DL's involvement was disastrous for the prospects of success.

I struggle with the idea of Cannan as some sort of Zelig figure of crime. Supposedly he was an oily lounge lizard who liked to hang around wine bars, but at the same time, he was prepared to drive six miles from the Scrubs hostel to drink in a grotty, old men's pub like the PoW. Really? He was also apparently able to change his appearance - he could go from looking 25 to looking 45, from having a broken nose to not having one, from being pale to being suntanned. He could change a red Sierra into a black BMW. Again, really?

The plod's case against JC appears to rely on snitch accounts years after the fact. What is bizarre is that it occurred to nobody at the time to wonder what sex criminals had recently been released. Had they done so, they might have got to these witnesses sooner, and in time for the snitching to produce hard evidence. To be fair, we also don't know what else DV knows about the PoW that he's not sharing. What he presents in his book is not a case, just a missed line of inquiry from 37 years ago (this week).

For my money SJL is under a house, or maybe a garage floor, somewhere in west London. The movements of the car also strongly suggest to me that two people were involved.
SLP had lots of lovers, but she didnt sleep with anyone from sturgis, and she did not sleep with her flat mate NB, so i dont think she was that bad, but i have never seen the case file. so god knows how many lovers she had.
 
  • #522
In particular, the movements of SJL's car make most sense if there were two abductors. Her car was supposedly seen outside 123SR at 12pm and at 12.45, was not noticed by the two Post Office guys who were there until 4pm (who also didn't notice the taxi fare's "right ruck"), but was definitely there at 5pm. However, it was also supposedly outside 37SR at 1pm and was in the FPR at 2.45, being driven by SJL. The seat position doesn't suit someone of Cannan's height, said by various witnesses to his other crimes as 5'6" to 5'10".

JT's council flat was near Shorrolds and had a garage, so if JC took SJL there and murdered her inside, that was the place the car needed to disappear from, PDQ. DV makes this point too but about the PoW, of course. JT's contribution, if this was JC's handiwork, may have been to get rid of the car for him while he was busy murdering SJL. What JT came forward with was nothing that he couldn't have made up or read in the papers. But even if Cannan did do this, JT wasn't going to spill even a fraction of what he knew, because he'd then quite likely link himself to the murder.

If the police are relying on JT as a snitch I'm surprised they've never searched under the floors of his old flat.
i cant see JC working with anyone. DCI malcolm hackett, SIO of lamplugh investigation also mentioned 2 men could have been involved.
 
  • #523
  • #524
SLP had lots of lovers, but she didnt sleep with anyone from sturgis, and she did not sleep with her flat mate NB, so i dont think she was that bad, but i have never seen the case file. so god knows how many lovers she had.
The police said they gave up trying to trace them all and had to concentrate on a restricted number.
This adds up to a lot of suspects. In
 
  • #525
JD does not know where.
Suzy’s car with unknown male passenger was heading in the direction of JC’s work place & the hostel.
The prop’s company must have had several storeage places, plus any local contacts through his pal JT make for many possibilities.
JD isn’t going to find the location now.
 
  • #526
SLP had lots of lovers, but she didnt sleep with anyone from sturgis, and she did not sleep with her flat mate NB, so i dont think she was that bad, but i have never seen the case file. so god knows how many lovers she had.

The police said they gave up trying to trace them all and had to concentrate on a restricted number.
This adds up to a lot of suspects. In
I guess the mystery lies within those demographics, whether JC was or wanted to be part of it only he knows.
 
  • #527
It seems fairly clear that the police seriously bungled the investigation, initially by putting out an account of events that they had not remotely verified, then by doing little further work for the next week, because they were busy with the cement factory fraud arrests.

They then failed to consider whether any recently-released criminals might have been in the area. So Cannan appears only to have come into the frame three years later, when the press and others started speculating about him and SJL. No actual evidence against Cannan at all seems to have been gathered at that point.

Family and press speculation egged the police towards a reinvestigation in 2000, which according to JD consisted of all the original possible perps, plus Cannan. The former were all eliminated again, leaving Cannan. The primary intelligence against Cannan appears to have been laid by this Taggart character, a lifelong criminal with a string of prison terms for dishonesty, who seems to have informed on Cannan for some sort of personal advantage.

Taggart's information would be evidentially worthless for two clear reasons. One would be his lifelong dishonesty. The other would be that it beggars belief to begin with that Taggart could know enough about Cannan's movements, mode of transport and activities to put him into the frame as Mr Kipper, without himself having assisted with or known about his abductions and murders.

Fundamentally the problem then is that all Taggart gave them - years later - was an account of Cannan's activities edited to exclude himself. This means he gave them nothing proceedable at all.

So we can be sure his account would be dishonest. As a witness, a defence counsel would destroy him in seconds. To implicate Cannan in 2000, the police would have to treat Taggart's information merely as intelligence and seek other, less-compromised witness accounts to corroborate it that could be marshalled against him. The reason we now hear about someone remembering they saw Cannan looking in a shop window fourteen years ago, or the Birmingham house-for-sale rapist, is because as ludicrous as this quality of evidence is as grounds for police suspicion, it's still less ludicrous than admitting they are relying on the word of Taggart.

If Cannan was involved so was Taggart, IMO, and rather than digging up Cannan's mother's old house they should have been searching locations linked to Taggart - such as the council flat he had that was a short walk from Shorrolds.
 
  • #528
It seems fairly clear that the police seriously bungled the investigation, initially by putting out an account of events that they had not remotely verified, then by doing little further work for the next week, because they were busy with the cement factory fraud arrests.

They then failed to consider whether any recently-released criminals might have been in the area. So Cannan appears only to have come into the frame three years later, when the press and others started speculating about him and SJL. No actual evidence against Cannan at all seems to have been gathered at that point.

Family and press speculation egged the police towards a reinvestigation in 2000, which according to JD consisted of all the original possible perps, plus Cannan. The former were all eliminated again, leaving Cannan. The primary intelligence against Cannan appears to have been laid by this Taggart character, a lifelong criminal with a string of prison terms for dishonesty, who seems to have informed on Cannan for some sort of personal advantage.

Taggart's information would be evidentially worthless for two clear reasons. One would be his lifelong dishonesty. The other would be that it beggars belief to begin with that Taggart could know enough about Cannan's movements, mode of transport and activities to put him into the frame as Mr Kipper, without himself having assisted with or known about his abductions and murders.

Fundamentally the problem then is that all Taggart gave them - years later - was an account of Cannan's activities edited to exclude himself. This means he gave them nothing proceedable at all.

So we can be sure his account would be dishonest. As a witness, a defence counsel would destroy him in seconds. To implicate Cannan in 2000, the police would have to treat Taggart's information merely as intelligence and seek other, less-compromised witness accounts to corroborate it that could be marshalled against him. The reason we now hear about someone remembering they saw Cannan looking in a shop window fourteen years ago, or the Birmingham house-for-sale rapist, is because as ludicrous as this quality of evidence is as grounds for police suspicion, it's still less ludicrous than admitting they are relying on the word of Taggart.

If Cannan was involved so was Taggart, IMO, and rather than digging up Cannan's mother's old house they should have been searching locations linked to Taggart - such as the council flat he had that was a short walk from Shorrolds.
Agree 100% with this, it’s just remotely possible that on this occasion JC had an accomplice and that was JT.
His MO generally make him a lone wolf, so if Taggert was involved what was in it for him.
I don’t think (but it should still be checked) that even JT would be stupid enough to allow SJL to be buried in his house garage.
So other JT related locations need to be established.
Also, what did JT look like? Anything like James Galway?
 
  • #529
The police think JC stupid enough to have buried SJL under his mother's garage and they further think his mother stupid enough not to have noticed him doing so, so who knows - maybe they're right and criminals really are that dumb.

You also wonder if Cannan had something on Taggart that ensured his silence.
 
  • #530

I watched a documentary & trial on the Scottish murder above. This man fits into the kill once and never again box for killers.

However, he obviously planned the murder of his lover and baby son. From the evidence presented it looked like his wife aided him in this crime.

He remained free for 40 years by crudely covering his tracks, all criminals aren’t stupid.

Although I have to say that if the police had probed his links to the victims better, he’d have been caught at the time.

If SJL’s killer fits into this same box we’re going to have a problem finding him.
 
  • #531
Suzy’s car with unknown male passenger was heading in the direction of JC’s work place & the hostel.
The prop’s company must have had several storeage places, plus any local contacts through his pal JT make for many possibilities.
JD isn’t going to find the location now.
his boss at the prop company said he was a good worker, so it sounds like he was not skipping work during the day.
 
  • #532
By the Monday JC had left the prop hire company's employ, but if one thinks he was involved in this, this connection to the Acton company does raise the question of whether he had used his time there to identify safe locations and / or disposal sites.

One of the reasons I have trouble with the JC theory is that its advocates unvaryingly point to very flimsy so-called connections. One such is the second-hand story about the bloke who claims to have seen JC dumping a suitcase in a canal on the Wednesday morning. This witness then forgot all about him, until he remembered the face, the day, the time and the date three years later, when he was on trial for murdering SB. There is no trace of his having reported any of this at the time, but he's often wheeled out as one of the anecdotals pointing to JC. I can't remember anyone I saw during June 2020, but that's what this bloke is being relied on to have done.

If you accept this account, it has several implications. First, had his alibi ever been checked (it wasn't), it wouldn't have held up; he wasn't back in Birmingham at all, therefore he could still have been in west London. Next, he must have had a place to which he could take SJL, kill her, and keep her there until 6am on Wednesday, or whenever it was. That is 36 hours after she was last seen. This means he had to have a property or at least a lock-up either there or close nearby. I can't imagine he'd try to imprison her alive in a city and hope she kept quiet so presumably he killed her right away that Monday afternoon.

Now conceivably, that is what happened and he was conning his alibi-providers. He could have gone out after breakfast on Monday in Birmingham, telling his mother he was off job-hunting, and assuming he had a car, driven straight back down to London and met SJL at 37SR. He abducts SJL to his safe house, drives back to Birmingham, and has supper and watches a bit of TV with his mother. After she's gone to bed he drives back down to London, does what he does to SJL and is back by breakfast, so she never notices that he's not there. Or he doesn't; he stays in Birmingham until Tuesday night, so that by Wednesday morning he's back in Birmingham, having apparently been there all along.

This would allow his alibi to check out, and it makes the suitcase story possible too. Unfortunately, it drives a coach and horses through the reliability of Taggart as an informant. Because if Taggart didn't know that all of that was happening, then he's a useless informant. And if he did, then he knows where SJL was taken and was thus an accomplice to it, and his account of this needs to hide this, while implicating JC.

Yep...I'd like to know if Taggart looked like James Galway too.
 
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  • #533
Yep...I'd like to know if Taggart looked like James Galway too.
Looking "like James Galway" at that time simply equates to having a good head of dark hair and a beard. I doubt there was any more resemblance than that.
 
  • #534
Looking "like James Galway" at that time simply equates to having a good head of dark hair and a beard. I doubt there was any more resemblance than that.
But it would put him near where SJL’s car was abandoned. After all the James Galway lookalike did make a big thing about what he apparently saw.
He never came forward even after he featured in the Crimewatch reconstruction.
 
  • #535
But it would put him near where SJL’s car was abandoned. After all the James Galway lookalike did make a big thing about what he apparently saw.
He never came forward even after he featured in the Crimewatch reconstruction.
You've missed my point.
This man had thick dark hair and a beard, that's all most people would have noticed.
Here's a 1986 album cover of James Galway.

NS04MTQ1LmpwZWc.jpeg
 
  • #536
You've missed my point.
This man had thick dark hair and a beard, that's all most people would have noticed.
Here's a 1986 album cover of James Galway.

NS04MTQ1LmpwZWc.jpeg
You've missed my point.
This man had thick dark hair and a beard, that's all most people would have noticed.
Here's a 1986 album cover of James Galway.

NS04MTQ1LmpwZWc.jpeg
My point is that we don’t even know if JT even looked remotely like the James Galway man.
If he did, then that’s a start on an a possible witness that might just have been JT.
 
  • #537
Last night on Channel 5 was a documentary called “ Who killed Lin & Megan Russell”.
It ran for 1.5 hours (less ad breaks) so was fairly comprehensive.
It clearly demonstrated that the police can obtain a conviction with only circumstantial evidence.
They had no forensic evidence linking Michael Stone to the Russell murders.
Even the famous bootlace (supposedly used by Michael Stone during his drug taking) had none of his DNA on it.

On this basis Suzy Lamplugh’s prime suspect JC should have easily been convicted using the same sort of unreliable circumstantial evidence.
 
  • #538
My point is that we don’t even know if JT even looked remotely like the James Galway man.
If he did, then that’s a start on an a possible witness that might just have been JT.
Yes. My first question would be did he have a beard?
 
  • #539
Bear in mind that in the 80s men were clean shaven with short hair. Beards put years on you and were then associated with old men, naff Radio DJs like John Peel and Dave Lee Travis, and 70s throwbacks such as the Bee Gees. Someone who still looked like that was either seriously behind the times, or was of that vintage and hadn't noticed the world changing. Nobody under 30 would be seen dead with a beard. James Galway man would have been conspicuous exactly because of this.
 
  • #540
Bear in mind that in the 80s men were clean shaven with short hair. Beards put years on you and were then associated with old men, naff Radio DJs like John Peel and Dave Lee Travis, and 70s throwbacks such as the Bee Gees. Someone who still looked like that was either seriously behind the times, or was of that vintage and hadn't noticed the world changing. Nobody under 30 would be seen dead with a beard. James Galway man would have been conspicuous exactly because of this.
Noel Edmonds was all over the TV in the 80s, but also one who would fall under the "naff DJ" category.
I was always struck by how often I would hear someone say
"Oh, he looks like Noel Edmonds!"
when in fact the only resemblance the unfortunate subject bore to Noel Edmonds was the beard and hairstyle. Those features are so prominent that most people don't look any further.

So the point I've been trying to make is that the description boiled down to hair and beard. Take those away and the bloke probably looked nothing like James Galway.
 
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