UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[lee sumner]

AL's role in this as a muddier-of-the-waters is quite pronounced I think. If we assume CV is clean and is reliable when he said he found the stuff on the Sunday, then one of AL's accounts can't be true because he gave two that differ, one to the documentary and another to DV. He told the plod he has SJL had a good relationship but she wanted to end it and pointedly gave him the cold shoulder all weekend. This is notable on the Sunday when he followed her to the coast and she then went back to town without him. I don't get how they were speaking on the phone on Sunday night about some event on Tuesday when they had had all day Sunday to do that.

it does seem strange they would make arrangements over the phone when they had all day sunday to do that. maybe AL is telling his version of events which are BS. if SL wanted to end the relationship with AL why would she make a date with him on tuesday.

 

[lee sumner]

DV is sceptical of the reliability of this account because the witness took several weeks to come forward with it and then apparently added nothing that he could not have seen in the TV reconstruction.

I'm a bit sceptical of the 37SR sightings generally because you only ever hear the one where it's Cannan outside at 1pm and QED. In the various TV documentaries you never hear it mentioned that she might not even have taken the keys; that she left no trace of having been inside; that other witnesses gave different descriptions; that HR later ID'ed a 45 year old man as the late-20s-ish Mr Kipper; that several of the supposed "corroborating" witnesses actually undermine the 1pm sighting by seeing something different perhaps as late as 4pm; that several other sightings in 37SR are never explained, such as the two white Fiestas seen or the two men seen waiting in a dark car (JC and JT?).

Interestingly, DV and the police agree that BW's sighting at 2.45pm didn't happen and she got the day wrong, but for different reasons - DV thinks SJL was already dead at the PoW by that time, while the police preferred to believe WJ who said the car was in Stevenage Road at that time, not in FPR.

Of all the sightings, I personally reckon only BW's is accurate. SJL possibly met someone at 37SR, but never went inside and was instead persuaded to drive someone elsewhere. The logistics and car management required for this suggest to me that any Mr Kipper had an accomplice.

when you look at the logistics of an abduction/kidnapping. it would not be easy to pull off.

 

[Pinkizzy]

when you look at the logistics of an abduction/kidnapping. it would not be easy to pull off.

Someone heard a scream on Stevenage Rd, the abduction may have happened there before a house viewing.

 

[WestLondoner]

it does seem strange they would make arrangements over the phone when they had all day sunday to do that. maybe AL is telling his version of events which are BS. if SL wanted to end the relationship with AL why would she make a date with him on tuesday.

Exactly so. His version at the time was that he didn't see her on Friday or Saturday. On Sunday she went to the beach without him and he followed, and that evening she drove back without him, and again he followed. She stopped at her mother's en route, then went home, and either there or elsewhere (PoW?), supposedly there was a call to arrange Tuesday. He's been away for 2 weeks or whatever and all he gets is a phone call? I'd have been all over her like a rash. They'd had all day to talk, and pre mobile phones, how did they know where to reach one another? Nah. She ghosted him all weekend because he'd been chucked.

This timetable does incidentally blow up any suggestion that the mysterious female caller to the PoW on Monday was DL. MG rang her on Monday to ask if DL had seen SJL, and she said not since yesterday - which would be before SJL knew that's where her diary would turn up. So she can't have told her mother she was going to the pub because she didn't yet know that herself.

when you look at the logistics of an abduction/kidnapping. it would not be easy to pull off.

No, indeed, and where it gets tricky IMO is with the car movements. If we go with the JC / BMW theory for argument's sake, he arrives at 37SR in it, 2 hours later he's about with SJL in her Fiesta, 2 hours after that her car's dumped at 123SR, and in between times - with MG turning up there - he's somehow retrieved this BMW from outside 37SR without being seen again.

UK - UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

AL's role in this as a muddier-of-the-waters is quite pronounced I think. If we assume CV is clean and is reliable when he said he found the stuff on the Sunday, then one of AL's accounts can't be true because he gave two that differ, one to the documentary and another to DV. He told the plod he...

www.websleuths.com

Someone heard a scream on Stevenage Rd, the abduction may have happened there before a house viewing.

Did we ever find out what time that was? I am wondering if her car ended up outside 123SR because he asked to be dropped back there where his car was.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I'm interested in the couple seen on Stevenage Rd and in Bishops Park. When did these sightings occur?

 

[Terryb808]

it does seem strange they would make arrangements over the phone when they had all day sunday to do that. maybe AL is telling his version of events which are BS. if SL wanted to end the relationship with AL why would she make a date with him on tuesday.

I think AL was saving face with his story, she’d given him the elbow on Friday and he still followed her to the coast.
The call was most likely to make sure he got the point load and clear.
That’s why it was made from the PoW call box and not from the flat.
Just my opinion.

 

[WestLondoner]

I think AL was saving face with his story, she’d given him the elbow on Friday and he still followed her to the coast.
The call was most likely to make sure he got the point load and clear.
That’s why it was made from the PoW call box and not from the flat.
Just my opinion.

This would also then make CV's subsequent account of where and when he found her stuff accurate: by the outside tables next to the call box, and on Sunday.

The supposed visit on Friday seems to have been fabricated with the alleged lurking presence of JC there a further fabrication.

 

[Terryb808]

This would also then make CV's subsequent account of where and when he found her stuff accurate: by the outside tables next to the call box, and on Sunday.

The supposed visit on Friday seems to have been fabricated with the alleged lurking presence of JC there a further fabrication.

There are two intriguing points about SJL’s visit to her parents on Sunday evening:

1. She outlined the joint house buying deal to her father.
2. If I’m not mistaken she may have also mentioned that someone was applying pressure. The business partner maybe?

The other point of concern is the male that she found to be somewhat scary, this would fit JC?

There are other males that just may have been the business partner.

At this point we have:
1. Disgruntled business partner.
2. Rejected lovers x 2.
3. Random encounter in the PoW.

So no shortage of options.

 

[lee sumner]

Where are you getting the P from?
None of her names begin with P, and any other random letter in a name is not an initial.

shirley banks number plate JC fitted to car is probably why i put SLP, instead of SJL.

 

[lee sumner]

I think AL was saving face with his story, she’d given him the elbow on Friday and he still followed her to the coast.
The call was most likely to make sure he got the point load and clear.
That’s why it was made from the PoW call box and not from the flat.
Just my opinion.

yes, i always thought SL ditched AL that weekend. SL made her own way back to london without AL. i think that says it all.

 

[lee sumner]

This would also then make CV's subsequent account of where and when he found her stuff accurate: by the outside tables next to the call box, and on Sunday.

The supposed visit on Friday seems to have been fabricated with the alleged lurking presence of JC there a further fabrication.

it must have been weird for AL. SL ends it, then vanished into thin air.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

There are two intriguing points about SJL’s visit to her parents on Sunday evening:

1. She outlined the joint house buying deal to her father.
2. If I’m not mistaken she may have also mentioned that someone was applying pressure. The business partner maybe?

The other point of concern is the male that she found to be somewhat scary, this would fit JC?

There are other males that just may have been the business partner.

At this point we have:
1. Disgruntled business partner.
2. Rejected lovers x 2.
3. Random encounter in the PoW.

So no shortage of options.

DL has said in press at time she felt as the prospective joint purchaser of property, & alleged client of Sturgis, did NOT come forward, clearly they must have had skin in game. I think it’s interesting DL & PL said they ‘only wished they had taken more SERIOUSLY’ her ‘strings attached’ deal.

She discussed the deal ‘at length’ with her father the night before she went missing. Yes, her maternal Uncle mentioned in a Doc someone was ‘leaning on her’ & she was ‘almost angry’.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

it must have been weird for AL. SL ends it, then vanished into thin air.

She had also been romantically involved with his wealthy, friend & associate apparently in his absence which must have potentially hurt too. It’s understandable if he wanted to save face yet help the cause & support the investigation at same time.

 

[WestLondoner]

DL has said in press at time she felt as the prospective joint purchaser of property, & alleged client of Sturgis, did NOT come forward, clearly they must have had skin in game. I think it’s interesting DL & PL said they ‘only wished they had taken more SERIOUSLY’ her ‘strings attached’ deal.

She discussed the deal ‘at length’ with her father the night before she went missing. Yes, her maternal Uncle mentioned in a Doc someone was ‘leaning on her’ & she was ‘almost angry’.

This actually makes it less likely that this mystery person was JC, IMO.

JC might talk big property deals, but of course he hadn't the wherewithal to actually move forward on any. Far from leaning on SJL to get moving, which would expose this, he'd surely want to stall her as long as possible, all the while trying to get her into bed.

 

[Terryb808]

This actually makes it less likely that this mystery person was JC, IMO.

JC might talk big property deals, but of course he hadn't the wherewithal to actually move forward on any. Far from leaning on SJL to get moving, which would expose this, he'd surely want to stall her as long as possible, all the while trying to get her into bed.

Agree with this, on this basis IMO it leaves a couple of other likely lads.
Both never came forward so again fits, one AFAIK, has never been looked at by the police.

 

[Pinkizzy]

This actually makes it less likely that this mystery person was JC, IMO.

JC might talk big property deals, but of course he hadn't the wherewithal to actually move forward on any. Far from leaning on SJL to get moving, which would expose this, he'd surely want to stall her as long as possible, all the while trying to get her into bed.

He may have been a middle man in a property fraud scheme, he feared for his life when SJL backed out of the deal so he killed her

 

[Terryb808]

I watched the Melanie Hall documentary last night (Channel 5 9.00pm).
The usual suspects were covered JC as master operating a fellow criminal who was in a pre release hostel very close to where she disappeared.

In similar style the police didn’t look at this possibility immediately it took a long time really. Why not, the JC case was almost 10 years earlier, as WestLondoner has pointed out, it should really be one of the first stops.

Christopher Halliwell featured, as well as Levi Bellfield.

When the police went back to the start and reviewed all the old files, they concluded it must have been someone she knew and was comfortable with.

In the case of SJL’s disappearance there have been reviews, but not to the extent that is really necessary.
They appear to just wanted to exclude everyone else so they can justify their prime suspect JC.
Like SJL, Melanie Hall’s murder remains unsolved.

 

[RichardKimble]

I wonder what convinced the MET that JC is the culprit and it can't be any one else.

 

[Terryb808]

I wonder what convinced the MET that JC is the culprit and it can't be any one else.

While Melanie Hall’s case is a different force if you watch the documentary you’ll get an idea of why the Met focus on JC.

In Melanie’s case (if you believe the documentary) they went back to square one and reviewed all the documents.
At the end of the day this actually left them without a prime suspect.

So at least they’re not hiding behind a prime suspect that the CPS wouldn’t take to court.

 

[WestLondoner]

The Netflix Jill Dando 3-parter is interesting likewise. Nothing at all connected BG to JD but there appeared to be cordite residue in a coat pocket and he was the local weirdo. That was the entire case. As with JC and SJL, BG was the only suspect they ever had for JD even though he wasn't capable of boiling an egg.