UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Cherwell]

Also when they fitted up Colin Stagg for the murder of Rachel Nickell. He was rightfully acquitted, and a cold case review later found the real culprit.

 

[WestLondoner]

And of course when Stefan Kiszko was fitted up for the murder of Lesley Molseed. SK was infertile but the police knew the killer was not, but three officers suppressed this information so he did 16 years. The officers got away with it unpunished.

 

[Terryb808]

And of course when Stefan Kiszko was fitted up for the murder of Lesley Molseed. SK was infertile but the police knew the killer was not, but three officers suppressed this information so he did 16 years. The officers got away with it unpunished.

There’s just too much of this which puts a big question mark over a lot of cases.

 

[WestLondoner]

And it's frequently the same officers. One of the police who framed Kiszko also framed Judith Ward (M62 coach bomb) and had worked on the investigation that failed to find the Yorkshire Ripper.

 

[lee sumner]

She had also been romantically involved with his wealthy, friend & associate apparently in his absence which must have potentially hurt too. It’s understandable if he wanted to save face yet help the cause & support the investigation at

I watched the Melanie Hall documentary last night (Channel 5 9.00pm).
The usual suspects were covered JC as master operating a fellow criminal who was in a pre release hostel very close to where she disappeared.

In similar style the police didn’t look at this possibility immediately it took a long time really. Why not, the JC case was almost 10 years earlier, as WestLondoner has pointed out, it should really be one of the first stops.

Christopher Halliwell featured, as well as Levi Bellfield.

When the police went back to the start and reviewed all the old files, they concluded it must have been someone she knew and was comfortable with.

In the case of SJL’s disappearance there have been reviews, but not to the extent that is really necessary.
They appear to just wanted to exclude everyone else so they can justify their prime suspect JC.
Like SJL, Melanie Hall’s murder remains unsolved.

i missed the melanie hall doc last night. i switched over to ch5 at 1130pm, and it was just ending.

 

[lee sumner]

DL has said in press at time she felt as the prospective joint purchaser of property, & alleged client of Sturgis, did NOT come forward, clearly they must have had skin in game. I think it’s interesting DL & PL said they ‘only wished they had taken more SERIOUSLY’ her ‘strings attached’ deal.

She discussed the deal ‘at length’ with her father the night before she went missing. Yes, her maternal Uncle mentioned in a Doc someone was ‘leaning on her’ & she was ‘almost angry’.

yes, her uncle mark said someone was leaning on her and she wanted nothing to do with him. i did wonder what that was about.

 

[RichardKimble]

i missed the melanie hall doc last night. i switched over to ch5 at 1130pm, and it was just ending.

There's always catch up.

 

[lee sumner]

Me too. I'm curious about what she did that was both so sensitive it couldn't be talked about yet was so unimportant it made no difference to the investigation.

We can infer a bit though, I think. There are clues. In terms of things said, her parents were quite churchy and observed that she "did not live her life as [they] would have done"; AS said the omitted material was "more News of the World"; and all the police would say was that she 'was a modern young woman'.

I think we can eliminate drug dealing or most other forms of crime as too critical a line of inquiry not to have leaked out. Casual drug use seems quite possible though. She smoked cigarettes, so may have smoked other things and this could still be consistent with that police choice of words.

It seems unlikely she was on the game. Someone would have known, it would have leaked, and I doubt the police would have characterised being actually on the game as normal for "a modern young woman".

When the parents tried to protect her "reputation" it seems most likely to me that it was her sexual reputation they meant. If all she had done was sleep successively with each of her blokes in the usual way, the parents would regard that as shameful, but the police might well say it was just "modern" and if that's all she did, AS would hardly have described this as "News of the World" material.

So whatever it was went beyond that. A propos, I note that she was adept at keeping her social contacts segregated, she even had a secret diary nobody knew about, and AS has her either three- or possibly four-timing AL when she disappeared.

Taken together, I would guess that the stuff removed possibly related to prior drug use, perhaps among the QE2 crowd, the wealthy West End crowd or both; and in addition she probably had a body count at the high end of normal, and a rapid turnover.

The police would consider all of that within the normal bounds of modern women's behaviour, it would dismay her parents, AS would agree the combination of it all took it into News of the World territory ("Suzy's sex and drug orgies shame aboard QE2"), and if it came out, it would be adverse to public co-operation. In short it would fit all the hints dropped, and it would suit everyone for it not to emerge.

DV is sceptical of the reliability of this account because the witness took several weeks to come forward with it and then apparently added nothing that he could not have seen in the TV reconstruction.

I'm a bit sceptical of the 37SR sightings generally because you only ever hear the one where it's Cannan outside at 1pm and QED. In the various TV documentaries you never hear it mentioned that she might not even have taken the keys; that she left no trace of having been inside; that other witnesses gave different descriptions; that HR later ID'ed a 45 year old man as the late-20s-ish Mr Kipper; that several of the supposed "corroborating" witnesses actually undermine the 1pm sighting by seeing something different perhaps as late as 4pm; that several other sightings in 37SR are never explained, such as the two white Fiestas seen or the two men seen waiting in a dark car (JC and JT?).

Interestingly, DV and the police agree that BW's sighting at 2.45pm didn't happen and she got the day wrong, but for different reasons - DV thinks SJL was already dead at the PoW by that time, while the police preferred to believe WJ who said the car was in Stevenage Road at that time, not in FPR.

Of all the sightings, I personally reckon only BW's is accurate. SJL possibly met someone at 37SR, but never went inside and was instead persuaded to drive someone elsewhere. The logistics and car management required for this suggest to me that any Mr Kipper had an accomplice.

i agree with you that SL went to shorrolds rd, but never went inside. she was then taken to another location in her car. the BW sighting makes perfect sense, yet the investigation team seem to go with WJ sighting instead of BW which i found strange.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Who killed Molseed?

 

[lee sumner]

The Netflix Jill Dando 3-parter is interesting likewise. Nothing at all connected BG to JD but there appeared to be cordite residue in a coat pocket and he was the local weirdo. That was the entire case. As with JC and SJL, BG was the only suspect they ever had for JD even though he wasn't capable of boiling an egg.

BG was obviously the local nutter, but was he a danger to women in the area. it does not take a genius to shoot a woman in the back of the head. the gun was a reactivated firearm with 1 bullet this is hardly what you would expect gangsters in the underworld to use.

 

[lee sumner]

Who killed Molseed?

ronald castree.

 

[lee sumner]

This could possibly fit with the BW sighting at approximately 2.45pm, SJL gave that person a lift from which she never returned.

In this narrative WJ is wrong and the general view that SJL’s car appeared in Stevenage Road between 3.00 & 5.00pm then comes into play.

I accept that the police located her car at 10.03pm, but the garage owner returned at 5.15pm and I can’t see him mis-identifying SJL’s car.

So she left the office at approximately 12.40pm and her car appeared in Stevenage Road anytime between 12.45 & 5.00pm.

IMO the later her car appears, the more difficult it is to theorise on where she

My original assumption, which persisted until DV's book came out, was that SJL either followed someone to Stevenage Road or met him there, pulling up nose to nose or nose to tail next to this person's vehicle. The parking was sloppy because she expected to be there for a sub-1-minute conversation about something, then drive off. I.e. she didn't so much park, as just stop. This is why the passenger door was locked (it always would be unless she was letting a passenger in) and also why her purse etc were left in the door pocket. She stepped out, reflexively taking the car keys as you did, with no intention of leaving the car unattended. She was then taken or perhaps bundled into some other vehicle; something like a transit van would work. Her car was left as she had left it.

Refamiliarising myself with the case over the last year or so, it seems unlikely this happened. The seat's having been moved, a detail I'd forgotten, points to the car having been driven by someone else. We could infer that driver's height if we knew how far back the seats on a 1984 Fiesta go. If there was another driver, then the car was being dumped, not used normally. It follows that it would be dumped well away from the scene of whatever happened to her.

You can see how this circumstantially supports DV's thinking about the pub. If that's where she died, you have to get rid of the car. You put a psychological barrier between it and you by driving it over the river. Once there, you get off the main drag to dump the car. You thus take almost the first left you can. Left turns are easy because you don't have to wait to cross a line of traffic. If you know she's a Fulham estate agent from the key fob, you want to be out of Fulham again as fast as you can before the car's seen by someone who will recognise it. You've also got a body to deal with nearby, so time is precious.

On balance I don't think she drove it there. I don't think it was there at 12.50 either - that has to have been a different car. Ford had sold half a million Fiestas in the UK since it launched, and a quarter of a million of the facelifted model SJL drove, so they were not exactly rare.

i agree, she never went to stevenage rd. i think her car could have been put there early evening.

 

[Terryb808]

i agree, she never went to stevenage rd. i think her car could have been put there early evening.

Just to add confusion to this complex case, there was a Mr Kipper living in Shorrolds Road at the time.
He and his brother could conceivably been the business partners she mentioned to her father the evening before she disappeared.
I know they were ruled out by the police, but just how hard did they look.

 

[RichardKimble]

Just to add confusion to this complex case, there was a Mr Kipper living in Shorrolds Road at the time.
He and his brother could conceivably been the business partners she mentioned to her father the evening before she disappeared.
I know they were ruled out by the police, but just how hard did they look.

Wonder if SJL knew this and used his name for the entry in the diary to cover for what ever else she might have been doing.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I watched the Melanie Hall documentary last night (Channel 5 9.00pm).
The usual suspects were covered JC as master operating a fellow criminal who was in a pre release hostel very close to where she disappeared.

In similar style the police didn’t look at this possibility immediately it took a long time really. Why not, the JC case was almost 10 years earlier, as WestLondoner has pointed out, it should really be one of the first stops.

Christopher Halliwell featured, as well as Levi Bellfield.

When the police went back to the start and reviewed all the old files, they concluded it must have been someone she knew and was comfortable with.

In the case of SJL’s disappearance there have been reviews, but not to the extent that is really necessary.
They appear to just wanted to exclude everyone else so they can justify their prime suspect JC.
Like SJL, Melanie Hall’s murder remains unsolved.

Eyewitnesses mention a mystery man (suspect) + Melanie with bushy eyebrows and an earring, yet there is no mention of bushy eyebrows with Mr Kipper.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Wonder if SJL knew this and used his name for the entry in the diary to cover for what ever else she might have been doing.

She may have planned to visit the pub but something happened enroute

 

[lee sumner]

Chestertons had nothing to do with Suzy Lamplugh. Sturgis eventually folded but was still going well after 1986. Half an hour on Companies House will point to that.

So many wild theories here are based on fanciful information. I particularly like DV's assertion, central to his whole, dubious case, that SL left Sturgis without taking the keys to Shorrolds Road. He never explains why Det. Supt. Nick Carter went on BBC Crimewatch in October 1986 to state that SL took the keys with her on a distinctive, yellow Sturgis fob and that they were still missing. Somehow we are invited to ignore reasonable presumptions of fact and instead, opt for fre, the key

Just to add confusion to this complex case, there was a Mr Kipper living in Shorrolds Road at the time.
He and his brother could conceivably been the business partners she mentioned to her father the evening before she disappeared.
I know they were ruled out by the police, but just how hard did they look.

yes, i believe his name was skipper. he was a journalist who was on holiday at the time. did SL mean to put skipper instead of kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

Wonder if SJL knew this and used his name for the entry in the diary to cover for what ever else she might have been doing.

his name as leslie skipper, which does sound like kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

She had also been romantically involved with his wealthy, friend & associate apparently in his absence which must have potentially hurt too. It’s understandable if he wanted to save face yet help the cause & support the investigation at same time.

yes, SL spent the weekend with AL friend. he has connections to the bahamas, and a fancy flat in mayfair. this is where SL stayed with him.

 

[lee sumner]

There's always catch up.

watched it last night on catch up. very interesting. cant believe her remains lay there at the side of the motorway for 13 yrs. glad they were found.