UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[lee sumner]

And of course when Stefan Kiszko was fitted up for the murder of Lesley Molseed. SK was infertile but the police knew the killer was not, but three officers suppressed this information so he did 16 years. The officers got away with it unpunished.

they knew SK could not produce sperm, but fitted him up anyway.

 

[Terryb808]

Wonder if SJL knew this and used his name for the entry in the diary to cover for what ever else she might have been doing.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

his name as leslie skipper, which does sound like kipper.

Especially if shortened to 'Les' - if you hear someone's name being said as 'Les Skipper' you'd probably think it was Les Kipper.

 

[Pinkizzy]

My thoughts exactly.

The police wrote Skipper on a whiteboard in the incident room (Shutterstock)

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The police wrote Skipper on a whiteboard in the incident room (Shutterstock)

On what grounds was this Skipper bloke eliminated? If it was on the grounds of being away or overseas then does he have other Skipper male relatives in the household or area?

 

[Cherwell]

Wasn't there someone she knew whose nickname was Kipper because he had a fishy name? She'd been to parties at his house.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Wasn't there someone she knew whose nickname was Kipper because he had a fishy name? She'd been to parties at his house.

That was one of the many 'other' Kippers - he has a surname which is a different type of fish but at school was nicknamed with Kipper and also so was his brother and he also lived on / near Shorrold's if I recall correctly. SJL had been to a gathering at his house only recently prior disappearance IIRC and yet he denied she knew of his home or had been there according to (I think) DV's book, which is suspicious.

Quite frankly it's astounding anyone should be linked to so many potential Kippers as there is also the Belgian millionaire name of Kuiper or somesuchlike whose vintage car was stolen and spotted on Stevenage Rd at the same time as SJL disappared.

 

[WestLondoner]

That was one of the many 'other' Kippers - he has a surname which is a different type of fish but at school was nicknamed with Kipper and also so was his brother and he also lived on / near Shorrold's if I recall correctly. SJL had been to a gathering at his house only recently prior disappearance IIRC and yet he denied she knew of his home or had been there according to (I think) DV's book, which is suspicious.

Quite frankly it's astounding anyone should be linked to so many potential Kippers as there is also the Belgian millionaire name of Kuiper or somesuchlike whose vintage car was stolen and spotted on Stevenage Rd at the same time as SJL disappared.

This is correct I think - there were a pair of brothers called Herring whose nickname was Kipper. One lived in SR and SJL had been to a party at his house. DV spoke to this one in researching his book. His explanation for Kipper at 37 Shorrolds is that the house had been recently listed so was at the front of her mind and by association she thought of Kipper in thinking of Shorrolds. Ergo, Mr Kipper at 37 SR came out of her mental landscape.

Not sure I buy it but the real 'Kipper' was eliminated....

 

[Terryb808]

This is correct I think - there were a pair of brothers called Herring whose nickname was Kipper. One lived in SR and SJL had been to a party at his house. DV spoke to this one in researching his book. His explanation for Kipper at 37 Shorrolds is that the house had been recently listed so was at the front of her mind and by association she thought of Kipper in thinking of Shorrolds. Ergo, Mr Kipper at 37 SR came out of her mental landscape.

Not sure I buy it but the real 'Kipper' was eliminated....

As I said earlier, how hard did they look and did he say SJL didn’t know he lived in Shorrolds Road in 86.
I’m sure a review of the police files by people who have a grasp of the details would certainly highlight other suspects than just JC.

 

[Cherwell]

Yes, Herring was the one I was thinking of who lived nearby and was known as Kipper.
I knew it was a fish but couldn't remember. I was going "Roach? Spratt? Pike? Halibut? (probably not halibut ...)"

 

[WestLondoner]

I’m sure a review of the police files by people who have a grasp of the details would certainly highlight other suspects than just JC.

Unfortunately the aim of all such reviews has been not to find that others might have done it, but to agree that it was JC.

 

[Terryb808]

Unfortunately the aim of all such reviews has been not to find that others might have done it, but to agree that it was JC.

Yes, normal people want to find an answer, not seek to hide the truth behind previous possible mistakes.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

As the house deal third party never came forward the Ls felt that this person had skin in the game somehow and was likely responsible for her disappearance and/or a nefarious motive.

SL said she would tell the family all about this 'deal' when things were settled (told her father and spoke 'extensively' about this the night before she went missing and her parents said they wished they had taken things more 'seriously'). Whilst there was no listing for Mr Kipper re: Sturgis' 'books', there may have been a person working with her who was listed legitimately under their own name/as client of Sturgis. JH, H being the name that was another word for Kipper, had been a client in the past, and/or his brother. Yet, very many were Sturgis clients at one time or other, it was a large agency with much reach. Was there any one else she knew socially on the books. No doubt the police looked at the time with this in mind.

This person was boosting her purchasing power and the family apparently thought that there were some strings attached to such a deal. Looking to spend about 100k said one article and it might have been then that Shorrolds was one that was of interest. Poss the idea was to only look at the outside and see if suitable for development before going on to see another property or similar. Poss 'Kipper' was a in joke between SL and this person. This person may well have been JC. Poss Shorrolds was immediately deemed unsuitable so it was merely a quick rendezvous for another destination.

Her parents sold her flat in/by Nov 1986 to a couple who had been extensively negotiating with her prior. There had been two or three abortive attempts to sell the flat and all this would point to a keen interest/urgency re: selling up quickly.

On the BW sighting it's interesting that not only did she run the property agency, was plausible, smart and compelling, but her sighting of SL was on Monday afternoon. In other words, it was AFTER the weekend and the beginning of the week. Less likely to be confused with any other weekday, then. She didn't realise its significance at first but was certainly very sure, saying she saw SL for about 30 seconds plus. She stuck to her guns for some time it seems, she was very sure she'd seen her.

The police visited BW's office and checked her diary and with colleagues (AS the source) to see IF she had actually left when she said she did on this Monday afternoon (BW) and what the time would likely have been. Indeed, she HAD left on Monday afternoon for her apt just as she said she did.

The police later decided she must have been mistaken.

 

[Terryb808]

As the house deal third party never came forward the Ls felt that this person had skin in the game somehow and was likely responsible for her disappearance and/or a nefarious motive.

SL said she would tell the family all about this 'deal' when things were settled (told her father and spoke 'extensively' about this the night before she went missing and her parents said they wished they had taken things more 'seriously'). Whilst there was no listing for Mr Kipper re: Sturgis' 'books', there may have been a person working with her who was listed legitimately under their own name/as client of Sturgis. JH, H being the name that was another word for Kipper, had been a client in the past, and/or his brother. Yet, very many were Sturgis clients at one time or other, it was a large agency with much reach. Was there any one else she knew socially on the books. No doubt the police looked at the time with this in mind.

This person was boosting her purchasing power and the family apparently thought that there were some strings attached to such a deal. Looking to spend about 100k said one article and it might have been then that Shorrolds was one that was of interest. Poss the idea was to only look at the outside and see if suitable for development before going on to see another property or similar. Poss 'Kipper' was a in joke between SL and this person. This person may well have been JC. Poss Shorrolds was immediately deemed unsuitable so it was merely a quick rendezvous for another destination.

Her parents sold her flat in/by Nov 1986 to a couple who had been extensively negotiating with her prior. There had been two or three abortive attempts to sell the flat and all this would point to a keen interest/urgency re: selling up quickly.

On the BW sighting it's interesting that not only did she run the property agency, was plausible, smart and compelling, but her sighting of SL was on Monday afternoon. In other words, it was AFTER the weekend and the beginning of the week. Less likely to be confused with any other weekday, then. She didn't realise its significance at first but was certainly very sure, saying she saw SL for about 30 seconds plus. She stuck to her guns for some time it seems, she was very sure she'd seen her.

The police visited BW's office and checked her diary and with colleagues (AS the source) to see IF she had actually left when she said she did on this Monday afternoon (BW) and what the time would likely have been. Indeed, she HAD left on Monday afternoon for her apt just as she said she did.

The police later decided she must have been mistaken.

I think BW was correct and she did see SJL with her killer. This makes a good anchor point, so as I’ve said before we need to nail the time her car was left in Stevenage Road.

You then have a time window for the out & back journey, less the time needed to subdue or murder Suzy.

Suspects and linked locations within this timeframe.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Also interesting was an article in the Daily Star on May 29, 2000.

"A car that could have been used in the SL kidnap 14 years ago is being torn apart by police hunting for clues'. Detectives yesterday confirmed a vehicle had been recovered from a used-car dealership in north London, where is had been parked for several years. The find was made after a new witness said he lent a vehicle to one of the key suspects at time SL disappeared"

"Dept Supt SS, said the new evidence pointed to a 'tight core' of suspects, including people who had not previously been considered'. "Suzy's mother, DL, said, were are astounded we hadn't expected someone to come forward after such a long time'.

I think this was the red sierra that was owned by another inmate of the bail hostel and JC allegedly took over the HP payments and therefore effectively had a shared ownership of the car. This fellow inmate, now deceased, may have formed part of the 'tight core of suspects' and possibly aided and abetted JC in some way, poss even unwittingly. Poss also acting as a partner in petty crime whilst they were rehabilitated together along the way.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think BW was correct and she did see SJL with her killer. This makes a good anchor point, so as I’ve said before we need to nail the time her car was left in Stevenage Road.

You then have a time window for the out & back journey, less the time needed to subdue or murder Suzy.

Suspects and linked locations within this timeframe.

You have a few reports of a rowing couple in the vicinity of Stevenage Road, and WJ's witness account. Two independent reports of an arguing couple I believe plus the James Galway a-like sighting as relayed to the cabbie about the couple having a 'right ruck' 'thank God you came along when you did'.

The Gazette Friday, August 22nd 1986:

BW's sighting: 'The new sighting of the couple in S's white ford fiesta was at 2:45pm. Because of it, police have now put back the time they think the car was parked in Stevenage Road, Fulham to between 3pm and 5pm. The new sightings have also led to changes in Mr Kipper's description [NB: later photofit] and police have issued a new photofit.

Distressed friend, BW, said 'to is common practice to clinch deals over a drink or lunch. They could well have been at a wine bar for lunch. Police are sifting through reports from their tour of eating spots in Hammersmith and Fulham. DS Nick Carter, leading the hunt, believes Suzy may have known her abductor. He said 'You don't produce a bottle of champagne to a stranger, and she wouldn't have gone off so calmly, as we now believe she did, had she not known him.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes, Herring was the one I was thinking of who lived nearby and was known as Kipper.
I knew it was a fish but couldn't remember. I was going "Roach? Spratt? Pike? Halibut? (probably not halibut ...)"

Yes there was Kipper junior and Kipper senior. I guess kids can be cruel when you've got a fishy name.

However, it is quite astounding that any living being should be so connected to so very many 'Kippers' or thereabouts and then be alleged abducted by a Mr Kipper. I mean what's the chances?

Some people (usually called conspiracy theorists) think that powerful people like to play silly games with names and dates just for kicks and jokes when perpetrating demonic activities. It does make one wonder.

I still firmly believe that whatever happened to SJL is way above and beyond the remit of JC and it is a 'red herring' (more fish) that he's even been introduced into this story. He was a violent, reactionary, woman hating, woman abusing, rapist, money grabbing idiot who lived in the moment spontaneously doing stupid things and not even seeming to worry too much about consequences or being caught. This crime doesn't meet that profile at all. People who can't consider cause and effect or action and consequence are not well known for setting up long cons or elaborate schemes with cover ups because they quite literally have a bit of their brain wiring missing in that area.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

David Williams, Crime Correspondent re: BW: 'I waved but neither of them saw me'.

BW was cycling along Fulham Palace Rd, West London, at 2:45pm on July 28th when she spotted SL. 'I could see her clearly through the windscreen with the man I believe to be Mr Kipper sitting beside her'. 'She looked serious but not distressed and I waved at her but she had her head slightly turned. She was talking to the man, I don't think she saw me either'.

'I saw them clearly for about four seconds, I suppose they went past at about 30mph'. BW is the last person to have seen SL alive and well. The two girls, both 25, first met last February and saw each other at least once a week'. Police yesterday visited pubs and wine bars in the area to find out where the couple lunched - and to fill the gap between 1pm and 2:45pm'.

Another article, BW describes SL as 'shrewd and quite hard and not easily taken in'.

Interview at time with BW: 'I couldn't tell you exactly where it was but I can tell you it was between the cemetery on the Fulham Palace Road and Townends which was the estate agent which I had an appointment with in the afternoon.

Interviewer: 'And she was driving her own car? '

BW: 'Yes she was'

Interviewer: 'Is this what confused you and you didn't come forward because one lady said in the neighbourhood of where it was found she saw it parked there from 1pm. Now you saw it later than that, didn't you?'

BW: 'At first I thought well it obviously doesn't add up but I am convinced I did see her and it was her car but that's not the reason it took so long to come forward. I was at first just upset about it and shocked and really didn't think more than that, well you don't think clearly about things like that, when it's someone you know that this awful things happened to and it's shocking. As a woman you find it all horrifying so it takes a long time for your thoughts to sort themselves out.

Interviewer: 'When you saw her, she wasn't in any way distressed?'

BW: 'No she didn't look it'

Interviewer" 'What time was it exactly?' 'Because the last time she left the office was around 10 to 1'

BW: I don't know exactly what time it was but I know the appointment I had with Townends was at 3pm but I was early to that. I often am because when you are cycling you can't judge things precisely. It was probably about quarter to 3pm'

Interviewer: 'Did she see you?'

BW: 'No, I literally cycled past, waved as you do when you recognise somebody'

Interviewer: 'You know her terribly well professionally?'

BW: 'Yes, I would say I know her very well professionally, yes ' 'It gave me a shock as it was someone I knew to be very much alive that had disappeared but also because it happened to be someone you know' 'Suddenly it's on your doorstep and it's close to home' 'It's a shock'.

Interviewer: 'But you didn't see clearly the man she was with'.

BW: 'No, I've thought about it and tried to picture him but I can't'

Interviewer: You also saw her a few days before she disappeared but she didn't say anything and she also had a strange bouquet of flowers at work and an appointment she apparently didn't tell anyone else about. All was perfectly normal?

BW: 'We never discussed the dangers of doing what we did. I don't think it really crossed peoples minds, everyone has strange things happen to them along the way and you might say you had a weird phone call, but it's not anything you take particularly seriously. She hadn't mentioned things like that to me when I'd seen her the week before.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

NB: above I said, in an earlier post, BW saw SL for 30 seconds, I meant she was her for 4 seconds and her car was driving at approx 30mph [acc to article].

If closer to 3pm or indeed 2:45pm that BW apparently saw SL, it might be post 'right ruck' that the James Galway a-like witness, that never came forward, said he witnessed in Stevenage Rd area around 2:30pm or so.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Sunday Telegraph, 24 August 1986:

Many questions worry them [the police]. There's a traffic barrier across Stevenage Road, and an unconfirmed report that a couple were seen quarrelling to the south of it around 2:50pm. So why was the car abandoned to the north of it three quarters of an hour later? She was due to play tennis on parkland fronting the road that evening. And what sort of abductor is it who keeps a bogus house-hunting appointment clutching a bottle of champagne, and for two hours seemingly stays in the general area where he picked up his intended victim'.