UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Lady Stoddart-West]

@lee sumner - you asked about another article I quoted. Here are the relevant details:

Sunday Times 29 July 1990

'Senior officers have learnt that JC arrived in Bournemouth hours before Court, 27, was killed. They have been told that he was driven to Bournemouth on the evening of May 2nd 1986, by a former cellmate at Wormwood Scrubs prison in London'.

'At the time JC was living in a London parole hostel and was less than three months from the end of an eight year sentence for rape and robbery'. 'The cellmate, who lived in Bournemouth, said he dropped JC in the town after they had been released on home leave. The same weekend Lamplugh had cancelled a Birthday date with an unidentified man from Bristol, which JC considers his home city'.

'Lamplugh disappeared after showing a Mr Kipper round a house in Fulham, West London on July 28. 1986. Three months earlier, on Lamplugh's 25th Birthday, SC was strangled after leaving a nightclub in Bournemouth'

SL, re: article by Sharon Collins, decided to go to Wales to spend her 25th Birthday with family:

'SL's Mum and Dad have returned to her favourite hideaway to recapture this picture of happier memories on her Birthday. It was at that seaside home, a year ago, that this picture was taken as happy SL opened her 25th Birthday presents' 'I remember it was pouring with rain as we sat around and watched as she opened her presents'.

[Given her, SL's, apparent decision to go to Wales, seemingly to spend her Birthday with family and not with AL in tow, etc, a cancelled date is feasible. Esp as JC not the main and only focus at this point and all this mooted. This pre-dates Phoebus and the JD reinvestigation I believe as 1990].

 

[Pinkizzy]

Sunday Telegraph, 24 August 1986:

Many questions worry them [the police]. There's a traffic barrier across Stevenage Road, and an unconfirmed report that a couple were seen quarrelling to the south of it around 2:50pm. So why was the car abandoned to the north of it three quarters of an hour later? She was due to play tennis on parkland fronting the road that evening. And what sort of abductor is it who keeps a bogus house-hunting appointment clutching a bottle of champagne, and for two hours seemingly stays in the general area where he picked up his intended victim'.

A witness (139 Stevenage Rd) saw the couple standing north of the bollards

 

[WestLondoner]

Sunday Telegraph, 24 August 1986
She was due to play tennis on parkland fronting the road that evening.

So we have another source other than DL that SJL had a tennis date after work.

 

[lee sumner]

@lee sumner - you asked about another article I quoted. Here are the relevant details:

Sunday Times 29 July 1990

'Senior officers have learnt that JC arrived in Bournemouth hours before Court, 27, was killed. They have been told that he was driven to Bournemouth on the evening of May 2nd 1986, by a former cellmate at Wormwood Scrubs prison in London'.

'At the time JC was living in a London parole hostel and was less than three months from the end of an eight year sentence for rape and robbery'. 'The cellmate, who lived in Bournemouth, said he dropped JC in the town after they had been released on home leave. The same weekend Lamplugh had cancelled a Birthday date with an unidentified man from Bristol, which JC considers his home city'.

'Lamplugh disappeared after showing a Mr Kipper round a house in Fulham, West London on July 28. 1986. Three months earlier, on Lamplugh's 25th Birthday, SC was strangled after leaving a nightclub in Bournemouth'

SL, re: article by Sharon Collins, decided to go to Wales to spend her 25th Birthday with family:

'SL's Mum and Dad have returned to her favourite hideaway to recapture this picture of happier memories on her Birthday. It was at that seaside home, a year ago, that this picture was taken as happy SL opened her 25th Birthday presents' 'I remember it was pouring with rain as we sat around and watched as she opened her presents'.

[Given her, SL's, apparent decision to go to Wales, seemingly to spend her Birthday with family and not with AL in tow, etc, a cancelled date is feasible. Esp as JC not the main and only focus at this point and all this mooted. This pre-dates Phoebus and the JD reinvestigation I believe as 1990].

i think AL was a summer fling. nothing serious.

 

[lee sumner]

I think BW was correct and she did see SJL with her killer. This makes a good anchor point, so as I’ve said before we need to nail the time her car was left in Stevenage Road.

You then have a time window for the out & back journey, less the time needed to subdue or murder Suzy.

Suspects and linked locations within this timeframe.

the officer that found SL car at 10pm. PCD. did he check if the engine was warm. its a long shot, but you never know. if the engine was warm, that would mean the car had been put there minutes earlier.

 

[lee sumner]

As the house deal third party never came forward the Ls felt that this person had skin in the game somehow and was likely responsible for her disappearance and/or a nefarious motive.

SL said she would tell the family all about this 'deal' when things were settled (told her father and spoke 'extensively' about this the night before she went missing and her parents said they wished they had taken things more 'seriously'). Whilst there was no listing for Mr Kipper re: Sturgis' 'books', there may have been a person working with her who was listed legitimately under their own name/as client of Sturgis. JH, H being the name that was another word for Kipper, had been a client in the past, and/or his brother. Yet, very many were Sturgis clients at one time or other, it was a large agency with much reach. Was there any one else she knew socially on the books. No doubt the police looked at the time with this in mind.

This person was boosting her purchasing power and the family apparently thought that there were some strings attached to such a deal. Looking to spend about 100k said one article and it might have been then that Shorrolds was one that was of interest. Poss the idea was to only look at the outside and see if suitable for development before going on to see another property or similar. Poss 'Kipper' was a in joke between SL and this person. This person may well have been JC. Poss Shorrolds was immediately deemed unsuitable so it was merely a quick rendezvous for another destination.

Her parents sold her flat in/by Nov 1986 to a couple who had been extensively negotiating with her prior. There had been two or three abortive attempts to sell the flat and all this would point to a keen interest/urgency re: selling up quickly.

On the BW sighting it's interesting that not only did she run the property agency, was plausible, smart and compelling, but her sighting of SL was on Monday afternoon. In other words, it was AFTER the weekend and the beginning of the week. Less likely to be confused with any other weekday, then. She didn't realise its significance at first but was certainly very sure, saying she saw SL for about 30 seconds plus. She stuck to her guns for some time it seems, she was very sure she'd seen her.

The police visited BW's office and checked her diary and with colleagues (AS the source) to see IF she had actually left when she said she did on this Monday afternoon (BW) and what the time would likely have been. Indeed, she HAD left on Monday afternoon for her apt just as she said she did.

The police later decided she must have been mistaken.

SL flat 49 disreali rd is now worth 1 million.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Lollytruecrime is worth a read, she claims that JC entered a house on Shorrolds Rd unannounced and SJL's car was driven straight to Stevenage Road while she was in the office.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

@WestLondoner these particular tennis courts were floodlit from the early 80s for eve play.

 

[WestLondoner]

@WestLondoner these particular tennis courts were floodlit from the early 80s for eve play.

No doubt. My point was that DV argues SJL actually went to the PoW at lunchtime. He says this because she had a 6pm meeting she would not have skipped, followed supposedly by tennis. The 6pm viewing would mean that if she needed the diary, she wasn't going to get it back that day unless she went right away. There was no window left between finishing work and and tennis.

It has been observed that a possible flaw in this is that the only source for the tennis is a radio interview with DL on Wednesday 30th July. On the one hand this was so fresh DL should have remembered it, but on the other, DL is an unreliable witness with an agenda so you can't really cherry-pick what statements of hers you believe.

So, if someone else says there was tennis scheduled, it gives a bit more credence to DV's thinking.

The other extraordinary thing is that they apparently did not mention this last money-related conversation with SJL to the police for months, having decided it couldn't be relevant.

One wonders what the strings attached were. Was someone suggesting jointly buying a flat and cohabiting to get 2 x mortgage interest relief? That would be both plausible but a major string.

 

[WestLondoner]

Lollytruecrime is worth a read, she claims that JC entered a house on Shorrolds Rd unannounced and SJL's car was driven straight to Stevenage Road while she was in the office.

Has anyone got the whole thing?

 

[lee sumner]

Yes, Herring was the one I was thinking of who lived nearby and was known as Kipper.
I knew it was a fish but couldn't remember. I was going "Roach? Spratt? Pike? Halibut? (probably not halibut ...)"

his name was leslie skipper. he lived on shorrolds rd and was a friend of SL. he was a journalist, and was on holiday when SL went missing. PC mick jones who broke into SL flat talks about mr skipper possibly being mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

As the house deal third party never came forward the Ls felt that this person had skin in the game somehow and was likely responsible for her disappearance and/or a nefarious motive.

SL said she would tell the family all about this 'deal' when things were settled (told her father and spoke 'extensively' about this the night before she went missing and her parents said they wished they had taken things more 'seriously'). Whilst there was no listing for Mr Kipper re: Sturgis' 'books', there may have been a person working with her who was listed legitimately under their own name/as client of Sturgis. JH, H being the name that was another word for Kipper, had been a client in the past, and/or his brother. Yet, very many were Sturgis clients at one time or other, it was a large agency with much reach. Was there any one else she knew socially on the books. No doubt the police looked at the time with this in mind.

This person was boosting her purchasing power and the family apparently thought that there were some strings attached to such a deal. Looking to spend about 100k said one article and it might have been then that Shorrolds was one that was of interest. Poss the idea was to only look at the outside and see if suitable for development before going on to see another property or similar. Poss 'Kipper' was a in joke between SL and this person. This person may well have been JC. Poss Shorrolds was immediately deemed unsuitable so it was merely a quick rendezvous for another destination.

Her parents sold her flat in/by Nov 1986 to a couple who had been extensively negotiating with her prior. There had been two or three abortive attempts to sell the flat and all this would point to a keen interest/urgency re: selling up quickly.

On the BW sighting it's interesting that not only did she run the property agency, was plausible, smart and compelling, but her sighting of SL was on Monday afternoon. In other words, it was AFTER the weekend and the beginning of the week. Less likely to be confused with any other weekday, then. She didn't realise its significance at first but was certainly very sure, saying she saw SL for about 30 seconds plus. She stuck to her guns for some time it seems, she was very sure she'd seen her.

The police visited BW's office and checked her diary and with colleagues (AS the source) to see IF she had actually left when she said she did on this Monday afternoon (BW) and what the time would likely have been. Indeed, she HAD left on Monday afternoon for her apt just as she said she did.

The police later decided she must have been mistaken.

i did not know SL flat was sold to a couple she had already dealt with prior to going missing. i thought them prior viewings fell through.

 

[lee sumner]

I think BW was correct and she did see SJL with her killer. This makes a good anchor point, so as I’ve said before we need to nail the time her car was left in Stevenage Road.

You then have a time window for the out & back journey, less the time needed to subdue or murder Suzy.

Suspects and linked locations within this timeframe.

BW is the only witness who knew SL, so is less likely to be wrong about when she seen her. why the investigation team thought she was mistaken baffles me.

 

[lee sumner]

Yes there was Kipper junior and Kipper senior. I guess kids can be cruel when you've got a fishy name.

However, it is quite astounding that any living being should be so connected to so very many 'Kippers' or thereabouts and then be alleged abducted by a Mr Kipper. I mean what's the chances?

Some people (usually called conspiracy theorists) think that powerful people like to play silly games with names and dates just for kicks and jokes when perpetrating demonic activities. It does make one wonder.

I still firmly believe that whatever happened to SJL is way above and beyond the remit of JC and it is a 'red herring' (more fish) that he's even been introduced into this story. He was a violent, reactionary, woman hating, woman abusing, rapist, money grabbing idiot who lived in the moment spontaneously doing stupid things and not even seeming to worry too much about consequences or being caught. This crime doesn't meet that profile at all. People who can't consider cause and effect or action and consequence are not well known for setting up long cons or elaborate schemes with cover ups because they quite literally have a bit of their brain wiring missing in that area.

i thought the same. this was the perfect crime, something JC could not pull off.

 

[RichardKimble]

Yes there was Kipper junior and Kipper senior. I guess kids can be cruel when you've got a fishy name.

However, it is quite astounding that any living being should be so connected to so very many 'Kippers' or thereabouts and then be alleged abducted by a Mr Kipper. I mean what's the chances?

Some people (usually called conspiracy theorists) think that powerful people like to play silly games with names and dates just for kicks and jokes when perpetrating demonic activities. It does make one wonder.

I still firmly believe that whatever happened to SJL is way above and beyond the remit of JC and it is a 'red herring' (more fish) that he's even been introduced into this story. He was a violent, reactionary, woman hating, woman abusing, rapist, money grabbing idiot who lived in the moment spontaneously doing stupid things and not even seeming to worry too much about consequences or being caught. This crime doesn't meet that profile at all. People who can't consider cause and effect or action and consequence are not well known for setting up long cons or elaborate schemes with cover ups because they quite literally have a bit of their brain wiring missing in that area.

BBM,I think the ramblings in the video interview which was leaked show just that.

 

[WestLondoner]

BW is the only witness who knew SL, so is less likely to be wrong about when she seen her. why the investigation team thought she was mistaken baffles me.

Agree it's weird. There were three irreconcilable accounts:

1/ WJ said SJL's Fiesta was at 123SR from about 12.50
2/ HR said he saw a couple (assumed by the police to be SJL + 1) outside 37SR at 13.00
3/ BW said she saw SJL in her car at 14.45.

If #1 is correct, neither of the others can be. #2 and #3 could be correct. Yet #1 and #2 are the ones the police believe, even though they rule each other out.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Has anyone got the whole thing?

Just sign up to Medium

 

[WestLondoner]

Seen it now. Not among her better efforts.

Interestingly, Barry George of Jill Dando fame did 18 months for attempted rape and was released in September 1984. He's also from the same area of London as SJL. It does show how long a list you can assemble of known sex offenders in west London and in turn it makes wonder if any besides JC were ever seriously looked at.

 

[Cherwell]

his name was leslie skipper. he lived on shorrolds rd and was a friend of SL. he was a journalist, and was on holiday when SL went missing. PC mick jones who broke into SL flat talks about mr skipper possibly being mr kipper.

That is not the person I was talking about.

 

[Cherwell]

DV argues SJL actually went to the PoW at lunchtime. He says this because she had a 6pm meeting she would not have skipped, followed supposedly by tennis. The 6pm viewing would mean that if she needed the diary, she wasn't going to get it back that day unless she went right away. There was no window left between finishing work and and tennis.

That simply isn't true.
It was a pub! It was open in the evening! No "window" was needed - she could have called in on her way home after the tennis, or walked around the corner to the pub after getting home

It has been observed that a possible flaw in this is that the only source for the tennis is a radio interview with DL on Wednesday 30th July. ....................
So, if someone else says there was tennis scheduled, it gives a bit more credence to DV's thinking.

It depends how this "someone else" knew that tennis was planned. Did they just hear DL say it on the radio?