UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[Ljh21]

She left Sturgis Estate Agents at 12.40 for an appointment with Mr Kipper

Suzy Lamplugh case 'still active' 35 years on

In the Footsteps of Killers release date: Emilia Fox to present Channel 4 documentary

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One thing i cannot seem to change my view on is that the only people who would drive around in a sturgis or

 

[Ljh21]

The pub that reported they found her personal items said she had arranged to collect them at 6pm , but we can see that she had an appointment at 6pm 43 waldemar so the arrangement to collect at that time must be false.

 

[WestLondoner]

Or overtaken by events - if the viewing request came in after she'd arranged to go to the pub at the same time, she'd have scratched the pub errand and done that viewing in preference. DV's hypothesis is that she did this then went round to the pub immediately.

 

[lee sumner]

The pub that reported they found her personal items said she had arranged to collect them at 6pm , but we can see that she had an appointment at 6pm 43 waldemar so the arrangement to collect at that time must be false.

she would have collected her missing items on the way home after viewing 43 waldermar at 6pm.

 

[Cherwell]

The pub that reported they found her personal items said she had arranged to collect them at 6pm , but we can see that she had an appointment at 6pm 43 waldemar so the arrangement to collect at that time must be false.

I'm sure this was just a loose expression. The pub opened at 6 pm, so it would have been understood that she needed to come after 6 pm. There was no need to come at any specific time, just during opening hours. It was on her way home, literally around the corner from her flat.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm sure this was just a loose expression. The pub opened at 6 pm, so it would have been understood that she needed to come after 6 pm. There was no need to come at any specific time, just during opening hours. It was on her way home, literally around the corner from her flat.

I agree with this sentiment. When a pub is open, it's staying open 'til closing time - it could be relied upon, in her mind, that they were holding her things until she came to fetch them IMO.

 

[Konstantin]

I'm sure this was just a loose expression. The pub opened at 6 pm, so it would have been understood that she needed to come after 6 pm. There was no need to come at any specific time, just during opening hours. It was on her way home, literally around the corner from her flat.

Yes, exactly, "I'll pop by after 6". It's a business that's open pulling pints for customers with the staff and landlord rushed off their feet from 6-11, you're not going to make a specific time appointment with them like its your dentist. You'll show up at some point, they're just going to get a member of staff to quickly grab your stuff for you, job done.

 

[WestLondoner]

The potential issue with that is if the tennis engagement was real. DL mentioned this as early as Wednesday 30 July in a radio interview. If it was correct then SJL's evening is starting to get busy because she has a viewing then tennis and we don't know how far from home / the pub that was.

DL is not the most reliable source and no tennis partner has ever been identified AFAIK. But if this is correct, then it might well have been easier for her to go right away. This seems to be DV's thinking.

I don't buy DV's theory on the practical grounds that I can't see anyone incriminating themselves by hiding a body on the premises, and that he has not shown the pub was closed, but I think his timing here is credible at least.

 

[Cherwell]

She didn't bring any tennis gear that day though, did she? She would have needed footwear at the very least.

 

[Konstantin]

She didn't bring any tennis gear that day though, did she? She would have needed footwear at the very least.

Yes, I think the tennis thing was prob just DL being DL. We know that SJL didn't share everything with her mum. DV jumped on it because he could use it to support his own theories.

If she had a tennis date there's no reason why the tennis partner would not have come forward - they'd have wondered where she was for one thing. Maybe a court booking somewhere. It was raining that evening as well, not great tennis weather unless indoors.

 

[WestLondoner]

If, and it is a substantial if, DL was accurate about this, then SJL would have had to go to a viewing at 6pm, then go home and get her tennis stuff, then go to wherever tennis was happening - presumably a booked court with a required arrival time. She'd have to change for it at one place or the other, play tennis, then go home via the pub and collect her stuff. If the viewing was at 6pm and tennis was at 7.30pm in, I don't know, Richmond or Chiswick or somewhere, that's a tight timetable, and there's no time to eat allowed for in there. She might well think Ah fvck it, I'll put a viewing in the desk diary and go get the pocket one now - especially if it contained the number of someone she needed to speak to that day.

It is true that whoever this tennis date was with ought to have been identified / come forward, but was there any appeal for anyone to do so?

Of course it could just be that SJL once told her mother she played tennis on Mondays, and her mother assumed this was still true.

 

[Cherwell]

If, and it is a substantial if, DL was accurate about this, then SJL would have had to go to a viewing at 6pm, then go home and get her tennis stuff, then go to wherever tennis was happening - presumably a booked court with a required arrival time.

If she had to go home to collect her tennis gear, she could have popped into the pub then.
But I think that if she had arranged to play tennis, she would have already put it in her car that morning.

 

[WiseOwl]

If she had to go home to collect her tennis gear, she could have popped into the pub then.
But I think that if she had arranged to play tennis, she would have already put it in her car that morning.

I think that it would probably depend on where Suzy played tennis. For instance, there are tennis courts just around the corner from Stevenage Road on Bishops Park Road - if she was due to play there then you would imagine she would have her tennis gear with her. However, if she played elsewhere then her day probably would of meant viewing the property at 6pm, then going home to change and possibly play tennis around 7.00 - 7.30 maybe?

DL seemed to recall clearly what Suzy had told her on the Sunday when she relayed it in the radio interview 3 days later. She said that Suzy had visited Sunday evening, had been windsurfing and was looking forward to going out with AL on Tuesday and playing tennis on Monday. If this is true it's odd that no-one ever came forward to say they were due to play tennis with her that Monday night.

 

[WestLondoner]

If she had to go home to collect her tennis gear, she could have popped into the pub then.

Depending on time, I would think. It's an extra stop when she might need to get from a 6pm viewing to a 6.30 tennis appointment somewhere else. What if it was busy at the pub by then and she had to wait to get the attention of someone who knew about her stuff?

But I think that if she had arranged to play tennis, she would have already put it in her car that morning.

You'd think so, yes. Then she could have gone straight there - unless she intended to go home, change there and then go to the court (which might not have a changing room).

It is odd that nothing more emerged about this tennis thing. If you knew where she was playing, then assuming a court had to be booked, you could surely find out at the time who booked those courts at the appropriate times - 6.30 onwards for example. It's either in her name, which wouldn't help you, or it's in other names, in which you could check each to find out who was to be her opponent.

You'd surely do this if only to find out if she had shown up to tennis. Police apparently thought it possible she'd turn up to the viewing and to work the next day, so if she made tennis or the pub you'd know better when she disappeared from when she was last seen.

 

[lee sumner]

I'm sure this was just a loose expression. The pub opened at 6 pm, so it would have been understood that she needed to come after 6 pm. There was no need to come at any specific time, just during opening hours. It was on her way home, literally around the corner from her flat.

it would have been the last thing she did after work. picking up her missing items at the end of the day. the pub was only about 400 yards away from her flat, so what is the rush.

 

[lee sumner]

Yes, I think the tennis thing was prob just DL being DL. We know that SJL didn't share everything with her mum. DV jumped on it because he could use it to support his own theories.

If she had a tennis date there's no reason why the tennis partner would not have come forward - they'd have wondered where she was for one thing. Maybe a court booking somewhere. It was raining that evening as well, not great tennis weather unless indoors.

i would not believe anything DL said. she was making stories up all the time. i dont believe SL discussed her private life with her mother.

 

[lee sumner]

Depending on time, I would think. It's an extra stop when she might need to get from a 6pm viewing to a 6.30 tennis appointment somewhere else. What if it was busy by then and she had to wait to get the attention of someone who knew about her stuff?

You'd think so, yes. Then she could have gone straight there - unless she intended to go home, change there and then go to the court (which might not have a changing room).

It is odd that nothing more emerged about this tennis thing. If you knew where she was playing, then assuming a court had to be booked, you could surely find out at the time who booked those courts at the appropriate times - 6.30 onwards for example. It's either in her name, which wouldn't help you, or it's in other names, in which you could check each to find out who was to be her opponent.

You'd surely do this if only to find out if she had shown up to tennis. Police apparently thought it possible she'd turn up to the viewing and to work the next day, so if she made tennis or the pub you'd know better when she disappeared from when she was last seen.

DV said the weather was overcast that day. it was not the type of day to go and play tennis.

 

[WestLondoner]

Maybe, maybe not. If you'd paid to book, you might go and hope for the best. 28th July was only 3 weeks after Wimbledon had finished, and that tends to stimulate interest in tennis.

It is odd that until DV brought it up, this had been forgotten about for 35 years.

 

[lee sumner]

Maybe, maybe not. If you'd paid to book, you might go and hope for the best. 28th July was only 3 weeks after Wimbledon had finished, and that tends to stimulate interest in tennis.

It is odd that until DV brought it up, this had been forgotten about for 35 years.

DV just comes up with a theory in his imagination, and thinks that is what went down. i found his book hard to read because his theory is so out there.

 

[WestLondoner]

DV just comes up with a theory in his imagination, and thinks that is what went down. i found his book hard to read because his theory is so out there.

I wouldn't go that far. He's essentially saying that there are only so many places SJL is known to have been heading - home, her mother's, 37SR, 123SR, or the PoW. The latter is, very oddly, the only one that was never searched, and about which some rather peculiar anomalies have arisen.

I don't buy his theory because
1/ he hasn't shown the pub was empty or closed
2/ he hasn't given any motive for why someone there would spontaneously kill her
3/ an accident makes little sense, because why would you cover it up if it was an innocent accident?
4/ hiding her body under the floor totally incriminates the 1986 temporary manager whenever she is found
5/ the floor in question was taken up and relaid a few years later, and nobody noticed any estate agents under there
6/ if for argument's sake you allow 1 to 3, the better place to hide a body would be behind the pub on the railway embankment, i.e. a place that does not link her only to your own pub
7/ the timing of getting rid of her car requires it to have arrived opposite 123SR no earlier than about 1.30, but witnesses saw it there much earlier
8/ it doesn't satisfactorily address the BW sighting of SJL still alive at 2.45.

He's right to bring this up IMO.