UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[sportstergirl]

Could be very likely JC is responsible. DNA should prove it, I don't think we've heard the last of this vile specimen

What does everyone think about the idea that JC was also the House For Sale rapist from the Birmingham area?

There's very little information out there about such a prolific uncaught serial rapist, with twenty or so victims.

 

[WestLondoner]

ISTR someone posted the press reports upthread and there was not the slightest similarity with JC. The perp was aged 35 when Cannan was in his teens.

This to my mind is a perfect example of the police case against Cannan being based largely on insinuation. As the HFSR didn't kill anyone, he left a lot of witnesses as to his height, build, age, voice, appearance etc. It would have been simple to compare these to Cannan and eliminate him and this was almost certainly done, with no reason hence to associate him with these crimes.

As the attacker turned up at houses for sale and was in the Midlands, however, it's a handy bit of innuendo. It overlooks that the HFSR attacked the householder, whereas Kipper is presumed to have attacked an estate agent.

 

[WestLondoner]

With SJL, abducting her in the middle of the day like that would not be a good plan because she was expected back at the office. But perhaps Cannan, if it was him, thought that estate agents just roamed around showing properties all day without having to report back.

That's a good point; we assume an attacker would know this, but maybe not. Of course, not realising this does not point to Cannan. Could be anyone who didn't how EAs work.

 

[tes1984]

ISTR someone posted the press reports upthread and there was not the slightest similarity with JC. The perp was aged 35 when Cannan was in his teens.

This to my mind is a perfect example of the police case against Cannan being based largely on insinuation. As the HFSR didn't kill anyone, he left a lot of witnesses as to his height, build, age, voice, appearance etc. It would have been simple to compare these to Cannan and eliminate him and this was almost certainly done, with no reason hence to associate him with these crimes.

As the attacker turned up at houses for sale and was Iin the Midlands, however, it's a handy bit of innuendo. It overlooks that the HFSR attacked the householder, whereas Kipper is presumed to have attacked an estate agent.

JC was in his mid twenties during the HFS rape series.

The HFS rapist was indeed described as older, but IMO the descriptions and composite are somewhat similar to JC.

The HFS rapist is suspected to have used a motorbike. Is there any evidence that JC ever owned or had access to motorbikes?

 

[RichardKimble]

With SJL, abducting her in the middle of the day like that would not be a good plan because she was expected back at the office. But perhaps Cannan, if it was him, thought that estate agents just roamed around showing properties all day without having to report back.

That's a good point; we assume an attacker would know this, but maybe not. Of course, not realising this does not point to Cannan. Could be anyone who didn't how EAs work.

Wasn't there reports of some one looking in the window of the office, if true and it's an abductor then they would know ea's weren't away from the office that often.

 

[Cherwell]

JC was in his mid twenties during the HFS rape series.
The HFS rapist was indeed described as older, but IMO the descriptions and composite are somewhat similar to JC.
The HFS rapist is suspected to have used a motorbike. Is there any evidence that JC ever owned or had access to motorbikes?

If it had been Cannan, do you really think that none of the many witnesses/victims would have identified him?
His face was all over the papers many times and someone would have recognised him.
He was not the "House for Sale Rapist".

 

[tes1984]

If it had been Cannan, do you really think that none of the many witnesses/victims would have identified him?
His face was all over the papers many times and someone would have recognised him.
He was not the "House for Sale Rapist".

You're probably right, but if it wasn't him then who was it?

How come there doesn't seem to be any forensic evidence from twenty attacks?

No fingerprints, no rape kits etc. They don't seem to even know the offender's blood group. Have the police lost the evidence, or for some reason just given up on such a prolific offender? Why hasn't there been a modern appeal or a case review?

 

[WiseOwl]

You're probably right, but if it wasn't him then who was it?

How come there doesn't seem to be any forensic evidence from twenty attacks?

No fingerprints, no rape kits etc. They don't seem to even know the offender's blood group. Have the police lost the evidence, or for some reason just given up on such a prolific offender? Why hasn't there been a modern appeal or a case review?

This is probably because The West Midlands Serious Crime Squad was notoriously corrupt in the 70's & 80's. They badly let us Brummies and other midlanders down big time during this period:

West Midlands Serious Crime Squad - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of failed and overturned convictions involving the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[WestLondoner]

Whenever an obviously catchable offender isn't caught, I tend to assume incompetence, corruption, or that the perp is an informant and hence is being protected.

 

[Cherwell]

You're probably right, but if it wasn't him then who was it?

Patrick Hassett has been suggested IIRR. A man with a history of "violent sexual offences against women and children". He murdered a young girl in 1978 but was not convicted until 1992.

 

[WestLondoner]

Wasn't the HFSR described as 35-40, tall, muscular and with mousey hair? Cannan would be a 0/4 on those.

 

[Konstantin]

Whenever an obviously catchable offender isn't caught, I tend to assume incompetence, corruption, or that the perp is an informant and hence is being protected.

possibly all three in this case, judging by what's laid out on the wikipedia page about the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad linked above. Appalling, makes the Met look like choirboys.

 

[pumpkin28]

Hi, I haven’t posted before but idly browsing web sleuths and wanted to add a question. I watched a documentary about this case a few years ago and it was mentioned that the house keys for the property being shown were found in the estate agent office after Suzy lamplugh went missing. That made me wonder whether someone in the office is connected to- whether they could have been using the house to conduct an affair? I don’t know if that’s already been looked into - I assume it has!

 

[tes1984]

Patrick Hassett has been suggested IIRR. A man with a history of "violent sexual offences against women and children". He murdered a young girl in 1978 but was not convicted until 1992.

He was a lifetime predator like JC, but was only 19 when the HFS rapes started.

I don't think he had any sort of organisation in terms of his offending.

JMO and I might be wrong, but I don't see him as a likely perp for the series.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Are there any other sources, apart from the Criminologist/Berry-Dee's book,regarding the Red Ford Sierra found at a London scrapyard that showed forensically that both SJL and JC had both been in the car?

 

[lee sumner]

Like others upthread. I also wondered whether JC had seen SB and picked her out as a target, given that they lived in the same neighbourhood.

yes, i thought the same.

 

[WestLondoner]

Are there any other sources, apart from the Criminologist/Berry-Dee's book,regarding the Red Ford Sierra found at a London scrapyard that showed forensically that both SJL and JC had both been in the car?

IIRC none, but the assertion that SJL's DNA had been found is misleading because as I recall what was found was a 60% match. This doesn't mean there's a 60% probability that it's hers, apparently; it just means it's a match with 60% of the population, including her. This a lot less persuasive of her having been in that car because it really just narrows it down to her or 30 million other people. Even a 99% match would include 600 000 people.

Hi, I haven’t posted before but idly browsing web sleuths and wanted to add a question. I watched a documentary about this case a few years ago and it was mentioned that the house keys for the property being shown were found in the estate agent office after Suzy lamplugh went missing. That made me wonder whether someone in the office is connected to- whether they could have been using the house to conduct an affair? I don’t know if that’s already been looked into - I assume it has!

Welcome to the thread

The keys to 37SR are a vexed question. The early reconstructions suggested that colleagues remembered her taking the keys, that witnesses saw her outside 37SR with them and that she was seen and heard her leaving 37SR having been inside. The police forensication in contrast said that nobody had been inside that day. In AS' book, MG is said to have searched inside the house before he called the police. In DV's book, MG would have gone for lunch before she needed the keys, and it's not obvious why anyone else would have remembered her taking them. All this casts doubt on whether she took them. Fogging the picture still more, a witness in the house opposite where her car was found in Stevenage Road said it was already there by 12.50. This makes it very hard for her to have been at 37SR at 12.45 before or 1pm after that viewing, and if true, points to there not having been one.

The police did look at whether she was involved with anyone in the office and concluded not. There are really only three candidates - MG, NH and the guy who was abroad on hols that week. We can eliminate the latter, and also NH for being 18yo to her 25. This leaves only MG, who does actually resemble the Kipper sketches IMO. But then if these were a description of men seen at the property that day, well, MG was there all right - looking for SJL.

The role of the keys was an important detail to bottom out, which does not appear to have been done.

 

[lee sumner]

That would suggest maybe JC picked her out, there's no evidence that we know of the JC frequented any social gatherings where SJL would be.

i agree, there is no evidence JC ever met SL. i dont think he was responsible for snatching SL.

 

[WestLondoner]

To be scrupulously fair to the police it is possible that the CPS, like for example the FCA (in my direct personal experience), is institutionally cowardly and immoral. Such bodies are always looking for a pretext to avoid taking on challenging but important prosecutions they might not win. Instead they favour grossly unfair or political prosecutions which are either easier to win or which send a message to opponents of the regime.

Examples are the Chris Kaba case and the prosecutions of some people for shouting at a police dog, but not of others who set police vehicles on fire.

If that's so then the CPS assertion that there's no evidence JC met SL could come from cowardice rather than fact.

For the police, the worst outcome of a trial of JC for killing SJL would be if he were found guilty based on evidence the police had in their hands before he killed SB. This wouldn't bring anyone back but would discredit the police (again). For the CPS the worst possible outcome would be to lose. So between the CPS not wanting to lose and the police not wanting to win, you wonder how hard they'd both try to take such a case forward.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Are there any other sources, apart from the Criminologist/Berry-Dee's book,regarding the Red Ford Sierra found at a London scrapyard that showed forensically that both SJL and JC had both been in the car?

It's on WIKI I think.