UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[RichardKimble]

It's on WIKI I think.

Even there it seems as if it emanated from Dee.

 

[RichardKimble]

Talking of wiki, when did JD say this.

"My informed theory is that Suzy was stalked by John Cannan. He probably spoke to her, might even have taken her on a date. Suzy certainly fitted the profile of what John Cannan sought, in that she was blonde, attractive, worked at an estate agent, a very presentable young lady who came from a good family. Little doubt that Cannan stalked her, little doubt that Cannan viewed properties with her, that he observed her through the windows of the estate agents which probably drew him to go in and seek to view properties. I think that Suzy got into a row with Cannan on the day, he abducted her from the car, or made her get into the vehicle he had at the time. There then ensued probably quite a very heated row where he basically drove off abducting her. Where he went from there is a matter of conjecture."

—Jim Dickie, 2015. Dickie was the SIO (senior investigating officer) on the Lamplugh reinvestigative team between 2000 and 2006.<a href="Disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>15<span>]</span></a><a href="Disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a>

 

[WestLondoner]

The quality of thinking on display there is for me one of the strikes against the police JC-dunnit theory.

The whole thing is opinion and ex post conjecture. If he saw her through a window and went inside, who at Sturgis remembers this happening? Or is this an attempt to use the ludicrous "I saw Cannan looking through a window 14 years ago" sighting of 2000/2001 to make the case against Cannan, rather than the far better contemporaneous sightings from 1986 - that were overlooked at the time, and that embarrassingly expose police ineptitude?

 

[Cherwell]

I couldn't agree more.
And the whole thing about seeing/looking at her through the window is nonsense. Estate agency windows are filled with photographs and property details. Naturally people stand gazing at these. The interior is largely obscured so you wouldn't get much sight of the people inside. The diary entry in which SL boasts that she was placed in the window because she was the most attractive(!) is just vanity.

 

[Konstantin]

I couldn't agree more.
And the whole thing about seeing/looking at her through the window is nonsense. Estate agency windows are filled with photographs and property details. Naturally people stand gazing at these. The interior is largely obscured so you wouldn't get much sight of the people inside. The diary entry in which SL boasts that she was placed in the window because she was the most attractive(!) is just vanity.

Yes, exactly -- pure vanity and not based on facts. You want people to look at house particulars not estate agents. No one decides to buy a flat based on fancying an estate agent. This anecdote is more an illustration of an aspect of SJL's personality although we don't have much context for it and maybe it's just how she joked around with her friends.

I walk past several estate agents every day on the way to and from various places and occasionally i glimpse at the particulars on display -- but I can't recall if I saw someone else looking. I couldn't remember from last week never mind 14 years ago. No wonder the CPS shot the Met down if that's what they had to place Cannan near SJL! It's rubbish.

 

[Konstantin]

The CPS website explains how they make their decisions as to whether or not to prosecute someone when the police submit a file of evidence to them

The CPS: How we make our decisions | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

First of all, our prosecutor asks 'is there enough evidence against the suspect to provide a realistic prospect of conviction?'

This means asking whether a court is more likely than not to find the defendant guilty when it's heard all the evidence.

To answer this question the prosecutor must consider whether the evidence is reliable, credible and whether there is anything that might undermine the case against the defendant.

This test is different to the test the court applies at trial. When a case gets to trial the jury must be sure that a defendant is guilty in order to convict them. At the CPS we don’t need to be sure that someone is guilty to take the case forward – in fact we don’t make any judgement on whether someone is guilty or not.

So basically, the CPS determined that the Met did not have enough reliable and credible evidence against Cannan and perhaps also there were factors that might undermine the case against him (that might, or might not, have included that he would not have had a fair trial, but I imagine that there was simply not enough evidence).

All of the evidence - whatever it was - that the Met gathered against Cannan was circumstantial and nothing definitively pointed to him being the abductor and killer of SJL, and there is no body.

So there was no realistic prospect of conviction. And it seems that the Met did try to find more evidence - like digging up his mum's garden (or patio, I don't remember) and the barracks but they did not find anything.

 

[tes1984]

In April 2001, Jim Dickie was confident that Suzy would be found at Dead Women's Ditch in Somerset. He said "This is not a scattergun search; it is a result of information that we have received".

This location was of course where Shirley Banks was found. It's a 300-325 mile round trip from Fulham. Could a Ford Fiesta cover this distance on a full tank?

 

[tes1984]

I think the CPS rejected the witness identifications because they were made in 2002 after potential witnesses watched the fifteen year old dating video of Cannan.

 

[Konstantin]

I think the CPS rejected the witness identifications because they were made in 2002 after potential witnesses watched the fifteen year old dating video of Cannan.

Yes, it's far to late to have any credibility. Witness identifications are notoriously unreliable anyway, even shortly after an incident.

Why did these people not come forward at the time, when the case was being extensively reported on after it happened?

Essentially, the police seemed to be trying to "find Cannan" in the witness statements rather than evaluating the evidence properly. There is just nothing compelling enough to suggest it was him, and "he raped and murdered other women" doesn't mean he also abducted and murdered SJL.

Maybe they have some more compelling circumstantial evidence that they haven't shared with the public.

 

[WestLondoner]

Maybe they have some more compelling circumstantial evidence that they haven't shared with the public.

Presumably they'd have shared any other such evidence with the CPS at least - the entirety of their case you'd imagine. Yet the CPS still declined to proceed.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

In April 2001, Jim Dickie was confident that Suzy would be found at Dead Women's Ditch in Somerset. He said "This is not a scattergun search; it is a result of information that we have received".

This location was of course where Shirley Banks was found. It's a 300-325 mile round trip from Fulham. Could a Ford Fiesta cover this distance on a full tank?

Does JD think JC has some sort of fixation with this Dead Women's Ditch? Somerset is a considerable distance from London.

 

[lee sumner]

Talking of wiki, when did JD say this.



—Jim Dickie, 2015. Dickie was the SIO (senior investigating officer) on the Lamplugh reinvestigative team between 2000 and 2006.<a href="Disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>15<span>]</span></a><a href="Disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a>

i think SIO, JD, might have got tunnel vision with this statement. there is no evidence JC even met SL, so his theory is probably way off.

 

[lee sumner]

The quality of thinking on display there is for me one of the strikes against the police JC-dunnit theory.

The whole thing is opinion and ex post conjecture. If he saw her through a window and went inside, who at Sturgis remembers this happening? Or is this an attempt to use the ludicrous "I saw Cannan looking through a window 14 years ago" sighting of 2000/2001 to make the case against Cannan, rather than the far better contemporaneous sightings from 1986 - that were overlooked at the time, and that embarrassingly expose police ineptitude?

how can SIO, JD, believe JC was in a romantic relationship with SL when he had only just been released from the scrubs 3 days earlier. he simply would not have had time to date her because he was still technically in custody. he may have broke the hostel curfew many times at the weekend, but i doubt he had the freedom to date SL in the months leading up to her disappearance. SIO, JD, has tunnel vision.

 

[Ljh21]

It looks like he was definitely aware of Shirley. Do you think is was pure coincidence that he encountered her the day she was kidnapped?

I have just looked at the area of his rape in 1986 and noticed “deadmans lane”
Anyone else realise the similarity with sb “ dead womans ditch” my hunch of “ body brook” feels more realistic now and i overlaid the map on an app to sharpen up the aerial photo from 1990 and the is a body size area , my son measured this with some computer thing and the size is 1.83m something i would not have known or done.

 

[Ljh21]

how can SIO, JD, believe JC was in a romantic relationship with SL when he had only just been released from the scrubs 3 days earlier. he simply would not have had time to date her because he was still technically in custody. he may have broke the hostel curfew many times at the weekend, but i doubt he had the freedom to date SL in the months leading up to her disappearance. SIO, JD, has tunnel vision.

But jc had been on day release from hostel since jan/feb

 

[Ljh21]

I have just looked at the area of his rape in 1986 and noticed “deadmans lane”
Anyone else realise the similarity with sb “ dead womans ditch” my hunch of “ body brook” feels more realistic now and i overlaid the map on an app to sharpen up the aerial photo from 1990 and the is a body size area , my son measured this with some computer thing and the size is 1.83m something i would not have known or done.

Also this being the nearest dead end off road area off the m5 near to where he lived in an area he knew

 

[lee sumner]

Yes, exactly -- pure vanity and not based on facts. You want people to look at house particulars not estate agents. No one decides to buy a flat based on fancying an estate agent. This anecdote is more an illustration of an aspect of SJL's personality although we don't have much context for it and maybe it's just how she joked around with her friends.

I walk past several estate agents every day on the way to and from various places and occasionally i glimpse at the particulars on display -- but I can't recall if I saw someone else looking. I couldn't remember from last week never mind 14 years ago. No wonder the CPS shot the Met down if that's what they had to place Cannan near SJL! It's rubbish.

In April 2001, Jim Dickie was confident that Suzy would be found at Dead Women's Ditch in Somerset. He said "This is not a scattergun search; it is a result of information that we have received".

This location was of course where Shirley Banks was found. It's a 300-325 mile round trip from Fulham. Could a Ford Fiesta cover this distance on a full tank?

strange searching there. as if the killer would travel over 300 miles to get rid of her body. the info received would have been a BS witness coming forward 14 yrs later. SIO, JD, is convinced JC snatched SL that day, but not me.

 

[Ljh21]

Also this being the nearest dead end off road area off the m5 near to where he lived in an area he knew

Court lane also not far from sc body location

 

[Ljh21]

how can SIO, JD, believe JC was in a romantic relationship with SL when he had only just been released from the scrubs 3 days earlier. he simply would not have had time to date her because he was still technically in custody. he may have broke the hostel curfew many times at the weekend, but i doubt he had the freedom to date SL in the months leading up to her disappearance. SIO, JD, has tunnel vision.

 

[Ljh21]

Jc had been out in hostel from as early as jan/feb