UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[greenwoodlad]

If sjl was going to a genuine appointment at 12.45, leaving at 12.40 would be cutting it fine imo. She'd have to find her car, negotiate traffic and park up in the space of 5 minutes. She apparently had form for being early to appointments. 12.40 may well be inaccurate, especially if there was no clock in the office to refer too

Yeah I was wondering if she could have set off earlier but Ive just noted in (AS book the SL Story) - the other negotiator in the office allegedly left the office at 12.25 to go to her bank and didn't get back until 12.40 then SL left - but is this all true? how can it be proved......for me the timings don't work its only a small detail - but if they don't work then everything else is built on the small details that were inaccurate

 

[greenwoodlad]

It just shows we cannot even get the answer to weather the keys are lost or not lol

This is the whole point ....this was an initial minor detail but so important and it is still in question....

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Fascinating last few pages just catching up on.
Just a quick point, which makes the 6pm time ( or not before then, as Cherwell points out) for a potential PoW visit to reclaim items Seems logical. The PoW mustve been closed before then :

Licensing Act 1921. The law meant that pubs in urban areas could open between 11.30am and 3pm, and between 6.30pm and 11pm. Pubs outside urban areas could open between 11.30am and 3pm but only between 6.30pm and 10pm in the evenings. Sunday opening times were limited to a maximum of five hours divided between 12pm-3pm and 6pm-10pm. More than 10 years later, the restrictive licensing laws were repealed in England and Wales with the passing of the Licensing Act 1988. On 21 August 1988, for the first time in almost 75 years, British pubs were permitted to remain open through the day; uninterrupted consumption of alcohol was allowed on premises from 11:00 until 23:00.

 

[Cherwell]

Who said MG had the keys? I recall DV going to great lengths to build a case for this, stating if memory serves that there was no visible damage to the door, so the police must've used a key to get in. Not sure if I believe that.
And also - and not sure if I've misremembered this - didn't MG go to 37SR to look for Sjl later in the day and was unable to get in? If he'd known that the key was still in the office, surely he'd have used it?
I'm inclined to believe SIO Carter on this.

I've offered this as a possible explanation before, but there are people new to the thread, so ....

The owner of 37 Shorrolds Road was away, working abroad. It's possible that he gave a set of keys to a third party - a friend, or maybe he had a cleaner - so that they could periodically check that all was in order, and forward mail.
So the police could have contacted the keyholder by the following day.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Yeah I was wondering if she could have set off earlier but Ive just noted in (AS book the SL Story) - the other negotiator in the office allegedly left the office at 12.25 to go to her bank and didn't get back until 12.40 then SL left - but is this all true? how can it be proved......for me the timings don't work its only a small detail - but if they don't work then everything else is built on the small details that were

I've offered this as a possible explanation before, but there are people new to the thread, so ....

The owner of 37 Shorrolds Road was away, working abroad. It's possible that he gave a set of keys to a third party - a friend, or maybe he had a cleaner - so that they could periodically check that all was in order, and forward mail.
So the police could have contacted the keyholder by the following day.

Ah I see. That's a fair point, actually.

 

[Ljh21]

Yeah I was wondering if she could have set off earlier but Ive just noted in (AS book the SL Story) - the other negotiator in the office allegedly left the office at 12.25 to go to her bank and didn't get back until 12.40 then SL left - but is this all true? how can it be proved......for me the timings don't work its only a small detail - but if they don't work then everything else is built on the small details that were inaccurate

Was she ever asked to prove the bank visit timing?

 

[Ljh21]

I've offered this as a possible explanation before, but there are people new to the thread, so ....

The owner of 37 Shorrolds Road was away, working abroad. It's possible that he gave a set of keys to a third party - a friend, or maybe he had a cleaner - so that they could periodically check that all was in order, and forward mail.
So the police could have contacted the keyholder by the following day.

I have never heard of such a thing like you would give keys for a psrticular property

 

[Ljh21]

Fascinating last few pages just catching up on.
Just a quick point, which makes the 6pm time ( or not before then, as Cherwell points out) for a potential PoW visit to reclaim items Seems logical. The PoW mustve been closed before then :

Licensing Act 1921. The law meant that pubs in urban areas could open between 11.30am and 3pm, and between 6.30pm and 11pm. Pubs outside urban areas could open between 11.30am and 3pm but only between 6.30pm and 10pm in the evenings. Sunday opening times were limited to a maximum of five hours divided between 12pm-3pm and 6pm-10pm. More than 10 years later, the restrictive licensing laws were repealed in England and Wales with the passing of the Licensing Act 1988. On 21 August 1988, for the first time in almost 75 years, British pubs were permitted to remain open through the day; uninterrupted consumption of alcohol was allowed on premises from 11:00 until 23:00.

Ah so it was open then and was a possible point of contact, that make the pow a strong possibility of where sjl went and why if something happened there the car would be across the river at basically the furthest point with a walk back along the river pathway making being noticed or standing out less likely

 

[Kasparthecat1]

If anyone's interested, Paul Dettman aka Crime Guy has uploaded a new post called Suzy: is Shorrolds a Red Herring?

 

[Cherwell]

I have never heard of such a thing like you would give keys for a psrticular property

You've never heard of someone giving spare keys to their home to a friend or relative?
People do it all the time when they go on holiday. They might ask someone to come in and water plants, or feed a cat.
I used to work abroad a lot, and my cousin had a set of keys so he could check everything was in order.
Some people trust their cleaner with a key.

 

[Cherwell]

Ah so it was open then and was a possible point of contact, that make the pow a strong possibility of where sjl went and why if something happened there the car would be across the river at basically the furthest point with a walk back along the river pathway making being noticed or standing out less likely

The pub being open makes it highly unlikely that anything untoward happened. There would have been staff and customers around.

 

[Konstantin]

I've offered this as a possible explanation before, but there are people new to the thread, so ....

The owner of 37 Shorrolds Road was away, working abroad. It's possible that he gave a set of keys to a third party - a friend, or maybe he had a cleaner - so that they could periodically check that all was in order, and forward mail.
So the police could have contacted the keyholder by the following day.

Yes this, there is no reason why this detail would be in the public record. Since the owner was selling his house, it would hardly be unreasonable that he would engage a cleaner to come periodically to make sure the interior looked its best.

SJL's colleague MG went back to 37SR twice, first with a female colleague. We have no concrete idea if he physically went inside or not because the only public record, AS's book, is very vague on this. One assumes that he did not go inside, since later that day the police did go inside and the next day a forensics team checked it, and found no evidence that SJL had been inside (no prints or signs of a disturbance). It does not take a "big red key" to force a lock even if there was no spare set of keys, so the police gaining entry with no visible sign of damage viewable from a photograph taken at a bit of distance is not evidence that SJL did not take the keys.

However, as there was only one set of keys in the estate agent, it would have been an instant red flag to MG if SJL had not taken them to the viewing.

 

[greenwoodlad]

However, as there was only one set of keys in the estate agent, it would have been an instant red flag to MG if SJL had not taken them to the viewing.

Unless MG / Estate Agents had something to do with her disappearance ....it's a theory ...supposing she had got caught up in something - underhand deals / whatever ... could have been completely manipulating the events that day -
someone (an insider at estate agents) could have phoned SJL posing as a Mr Kipper - hence the diary entry (written in her diary in her writing) and then she trots off to a fake appt at 37SR set up by the insider at Estate Agents
and what happened then who knows and who was the insider but the firm would have access to her car with spare keys and other sturgis cars - its a thought

 

[greenwoodlad]

does anyone have knowledge as to where the witness came from / who saw a white fiesta driving fast & erratically with a man & woman in ? and how did this information come about? and when did this witness come forward ...... what road was this on etc

 

[lee sumner]

But it is said mg had the jeys to 37sr after sjl missing so sio carter must be wrong

there is no way carter is mistaken. he was SIO, the leading officer in charge of the case. i dont think MG had keys to 37SRD.

 

[lee sumner]

Who said MG had the keys? I recall DV going to great lengths to build a case for this, stating if memory serves that there was no visible damage to the door, so the police must've used a key to get in. Not sure if I believe that.

And also - and not sure if I've misremembered this - didn't MG go to 37SR to look for Sjl later in the day and was unable to get in? If he'd known that the key was still in the office, surely he'd have used it?

I'm inclined to believe SIO Carter on this.

yes, i agree. DV has his own theory about what happened to SL, and in his version of events SL didnt take to keys to 37SRD. carter was SIO, in charge of the case, so there is no way carter would be mistaken.

 

[lee sumner]

If sjl was going to a genuine appointment at 12.45, leaving at 12.40 would be cutting it fine imo. She'd have to find her car, negotiate traffic and park up in the space of 5 minutes. She apparently had form for being early to appointments. 12.40 may well be inaccurate, especially if there was no clock in the office to refer to.

i agree. SL was said to always arrive early when meeting clients. she probably left the office around 1230pm.

 

[lee sumner]

It just shows we cannot even get the snswer to weather the keys are lost or not lol

occams razor. SL took the keys and paperwork to 37 shorrolds rd that day.

 

[lee sumner]

Yes this, there is no reason why this detail would be in the public record. Since the owner was selling his house, it would hardly be unreasonable that he would engage a cleaner to come periodically to make sure the interior looked its best.

SJL's colleague MG went back to 37SR twice, first with a female colleague. We have no concrete idea if he physically went inside or not because the only public record, AS's book, is very vague on this. One assumes that he did not go inside, since later that day the police did go inside and the next day a forensics team checked it, and found no evidence that SJL had been inside (no prints or signs of a disturbance). It does not take a "big red key" to force a lock even if there was no spare set of keys, so the police gaining entry with no visible sign of damage viewable from a photograph taken at a bit of distance is not evidence that SJL did not take the keys.

However, as there was only one set of keys in the estate agent, it would have been an instant red flag to MG if SJL had not taken them to the viewing.

detectives could have got into 37 shorrolds rd using the back door. the day after SL went missing MG would have had the locks changed at 37 shorrolds rd. even though SL was missing business goes on, and 37SRD, would have to have a new set of keys.

 

[Ljh21]

Ah so

Fascinating last few pages just catching up on.
Just a quick point, which makes the 6pm time ( or not before then, as Cherwell points out) for a potential PoW visit to reclaim items Seems logical. The PoW mustve been closed before then :

Licensing Act 1921. The law meant that pubs in urban areas could open between 11.30am and 3pm, and between 6.30pm and 11pm. Pubs outside urban areas could open between 11.30am and 3pm but only between 6.30pm and 10pm in the evenings. Sunday opening times were limited to a maximum of five hours divided between 12pm-3pm and 6pm-10pm. More than 10 years later, the restrictive licensing laws were repealed in England and Wales with the passing of the Licensing Act 1988. On 21 August 1988, for the first time in almost 75 years, British pubs were permitted to remain open through the day; uninterrupted consumption of alcohol was allowed on premises from 11:00 until 23:00.

Ah so it was open then and was a possible point of contact

Yes this, there is no reason why this detail would be in the public record. Since the owner was selling his house, it would hardly be unreasonable that he would engage a cleaner to come periodically to make sure the interior looked its best.

SJL's colleague MG went back to 37SR twice, first with a female colleague. We have no concrete idea if he physically went inside or not because the only public record, AS's book, is very vague on this. One assumes that he did not go inside, since later that day the police did go inside and the next day a forensics team checked it, and found no evidence that SJL had been inside (no prints or signs of a disturbance). It does not take a "big red key" to force a lock even if there was no spare set of keys, so the police gaining entry with no visible sign of damage viewable from a photograph taken at a bit of distance is not evidence that SJL did not take the keys.

However, as there was only one set of keys in the estate agent, it would have been an instant red flag to MG if SJL had not taken them to the viewing.

I wonder if the cleaner had a friend, drove a white fiesta and was double parked outside 37 sr, if so that would explain having someone to move the car as you would have an accomplice and would possibly have had contact at some point with sjl in the recent past, they could have even called sturgis and arranged the meeting maybe even phoned there a few times until they were speaking to sjl to make sure she took the booking and would possibly know 123 was for sale, maybe even lived near 123
Does anyone have the place and time of the witness van driver who had to swerve to miss someone driving erratically in a fiesta?