UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[su5ie]

This has been posted on YT - its both the 86 and 2000 crimewatch coverages . Interestly - from about 13.33 onwards it goes into more detail about the tradesman sighting and the cabbie. Stuff I have not seen before .

I didn't know suzy was sighted wearing the hat that was found on the shelf at the back of her car . Once looking up at a property and once walking down the street with a man .

I don't know if it was a popular hat but seems to be something that would make a sighting more memorable and also didn't know the tradesman in the white van swerved to avoid a collision with a white fiesta again something that you would be more likely to remember and take a mental note .

I think these sightings are more valid than the sightings on Shorrolds Road by the next door neighbour to 37 . His name escapes me its on the tip of my tongue but

 

[Klclevi]

I didn't know suzy was sighted wearing the hat that was found on the shelf at the back of her car . Once looking up at a property and once walking down the street with a man .

I don't know if it was a popular hat but seems to be something that would make a sighting more memorable and also didn't know the tradesman in the white van swerved to avoid a collision with a white fiesta again something that you would be more likely to remember and take a mental note .

I think these sightings are more valid than the sightings on Shorrolds Road by the next door neighbour to 37 . His name escapes me its on the tip of my tongue but

HR was his name . Agree I don't think that info has been reported anywhere that I have seen.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Am still reading the AS book. Making notes, all v interesting so far. Im tending to think a lot of weight must be given to the Fiesta across the Garage Kerb on S Rd, from Midday to its discovery by Police 10 30pm? Just so logical why someone would note its parking and believable activity that fits timings of observing it unmoved.

This only offers fairly solid 'facts' but does not help to establish a logical timeline of what actually happened?

 

[Klclevi]

https://archive.is/wWi6T

 

[Klclevi]

This is interesting (see bold below) I wonder if that is true - that she told them that on the Sunday?

New clue may let Suzy Lamplugh rest at last The estate agent's family have battled tirelessly to find the `Mr Kipper' who took away their daughter. Now, reports Andrew Alderson, more leads may mean their anguish will soon be over
Article from:The Sunday Telegraph London Article dateecember 5, 1999Author:Andrew Alderson More results for:New clue may let Suzy Lamplugh rest at last

THE disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh was the murder mystery that struck a chord with the nation. An attractive middle-class victim; a sinister cunning abductor; and, above all, the puzzle of how a young career woman could disappear from a London street in daylight and never be seen again.

The 1986 case changed the lives of Miss Lamplugh's family for ever. Her mother, Diana, threw her energies into the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, a charity set up within five months of the disappearance that aims to prevent a similar abduction by studying violence and aggression.

Mrs Lamplugh and her husband, Paul, a retired lawyer, inserted a stained-glass window in their daughter's memory at All Saints' Church, East Sheen, London, near their home, and tried to get on with their lives.

"Suzy was a great one for getting on with life. She would have wanted us to do everything possible to catch this man, but eventually she would have said, `Life is for living - get on with it,' " said Mr Lamplugh, now 68.

Their daughter was officially declared dead in 1994, but yesterday there was fresh hope that her body would be found after new evidence was revealed that is believed to corroborate the claims of an earlier witness.

Scotland Yard have information suggesting that Miss Lamplugh's body was buried at a disused Army barracks in Worcestershire.

A decade ago, Gilly Paige, then an ice dancer, alleged that while having a relationship in 1987 with John Cannan, now a convicted killer, he confessed to raping and murdering Miss Lamplugh and implied that he had buried her body in the county.

Scotland Yard is studying the lead and one of its most senior officers has discussed the development with Mrs Lamplugh.

Her family hopes that police will start digging for the estate agent's body near the disused barracks at Norton after Christmas. If it is discovered, there will be a funeral and every possibility of a murder charge.

"The information that has been received is very interesting . . . it couldn't have been made up, " Mrs Lamplugh, 63, said yesterday in an exclusive interview. "This is the first time that I have felt some real hope that we were about to find Suzy's body. We have come to accept and understand that she is no longer here and it would be marvellous to say goodbye."

Miss Lamplugh, 25, had left her office in Fulham, west London, at lunchtime on July 28, 1986, to meet a client called "Mr Kipper" and show him around a house nearby. She was never seen again. After she disappeared, her white Ford Fiesta was found near the for-sale property and neighbours helped draw up a photofit of a male suspect who was seen at the house with Miss Lamplugh.

There were few leads, but in 1989 John Cannan, a charming womaniser capable of turning into a vicious abductor, was found guilty of murdering Shirley Banks, 29, a sales manager from Bristol whose body was found on the Quantock Hills in Somerset in 1987. She had been kept at Cannan's flat then battered to death with a rock.

During the Banks inquiry, a number of clues emerged that appeared to link Cannan to Miss Lamplugh. He had once been known to prison colleagues as Kipper and the photofit of the "Mr Kipper" who met Miss Lamplugh bore a strong resemblance to him.

A woman who visited Cannan in prison while he was awaiting trial for Shirley Banks's murder claimed he knew who killed Mrs Banks, Miss Lamplugh and another woman. Miss Lamplugh's parents believe she met Cannan while he was on parole and working as a delivery driver.

They disclosed that the day before their daughter's disappearance, she told them she was going to meet a man from Bristol, Cannan's home city. He had been allowed to leave a pre- release hostel at Wormwood Scrubs prior to his formal release from jail three days before Miss Lamplugh's disappearance. She had told her parents that the man had been pestering her and she was going to tell him she did not want to see him again. Cannan's previous attacks on women had often followed rejection.

Cannan has been questioned at least three times in jail over Miss Lamplugh's disappearance. Several senior detectives involved in the inquiry allege that he committed the crime. However, others are sceptical and James Moriarty, Cannan's solicitor, has repeatedly insisted his client has no link to Miss Lamplugh. Cannan learned of Miss Paige's claims when he was serving life for the murder of Mrs Banks and for three attempted abductions of women. In a letter to the Sutton Coldfield News, he said: "May I please assure you, that whilst it is perfectly true that I did give ice-skater Gilly Paige a lift from Bristol to Birmingham, where both our families live, I did NOT at any time say that I had raped and killed Miss Lamplugh."

This weekend, however, Mrs Lamplugh is convinced the new lead is genuine.

"We would all very much like to find her body," said Mrs Lamplugh. "It is a cause of deep distress to us not to feel we have buried her. Finding Suzy's body would give some peace to all of us."
Quote

 

[Klclevi]

PorchlightEurope-1986 Lamplugh, Suzy July 28, 1986

Not sure if any of you have seen this thread, it is a collection of news articles on the case over the years.

 

[rvlvr]

She had told her parents that the man had been pestering her and she was going to tell him she did not want to see him again. Cannan's previous attacks on women had often followed rejection.

The issue I have with this is, why would Cannan concoct the Mr Kipper meeting? If he knew where SL worked then he likely knew where she socialised, lived even - there’d be no need to arrange an appointment with her, he could’ve just turned up somewhere he knew she’d be.

And if she’d made up the appointment in order to get out of the office, would she really have done that just to meet up with Cannan? Even if he was pestering her and she’d had enough, surely she could’ve waited? Would she even have told him to clear off face to face? She didn’t seem to make much time for her actual ‘boyfriend’, AL, yet she’d fake a house viewing to bunk off work on a busy Monday lunchtime, just to tell Cannan to leave her alone?

Neither scenario adds up to me.

 

[Spoof]

I haven't read this whole thread so forgive me if I'm making a point that's already been made but wasn't there a theory that "Mr Kipper" was a red herring she wrote in her diary to cover who she was actually due to meet?

 

[rvlvr]

I haven't read this whole thread so forgive me if I'm making a point that's already been made but wasn't there a theory that "Mr Kipper" was a red herring she wrote in her diary to cover who she was actually due to meet?

I’d definitely recommend reading the whole thread, it covers all the main arguments and theories.

I’ve nearly finished re-reading Finding Suzy, whatever people think of him I can’t help but feel that if someone like DV had been on the case from the beginning it might’ve turned out differently. His theory might be wrong, but he attacked this case with a zeal and nous that the official investigations all seemed to sorely lack.

 

[Klclevi]

I’d definitely recommend reading the whole thread, it covers all the main arguments and theories.

I’ve nearly finished re-reading Finding Suzy, whatever people think of him I can’t help but feel that if someone like DV had been on the case from the beginning it might’ve turned out differently. His theory might be wrong, but he attacked this case with a zeal and nous that the official investigations all seemed to sorely lack.

I do agree absolutely rvlvr.

I have started reading the whole 7 threads again in detail since the first in 2021.
It is worth reading them from the absolute beginning if you can. Some of the WS community have real logical and analytical perspectives on things which I have found invaluable in thinking about this case. Thankyou to you all.

Westlondoner in in one of his very early posts mentioned that the perp could be the person calling the POW pub posing as the policeman. What if he made SJL call the pub as well (saying she was Sarah). (JC did that with SB ). Is there any credibility in the Red Sierra DNA situation and that she had known JC in the lead up to this? It is highly highly unlikely. Just putting a thought out there . Thoughts anyone?

If SJL had a number of cross over lovers ( it would seem to indicate that she had ) it would not be completely inconcievable that one was not happy . Surely NB, TL, or EL would have had some idea of what went on in her life. But no one has said anything. Nothing about the flowers delivered, nothing about the phone calls to the flat. it just seems ODD if you ask me.

How does one research cold cases in detail in the UK are these police records available to members of the public ? I would not have thought so ?

Less than a week to go until 39 years missing.

 

[lee sumner]

FWIW I highly doubt he’s responsible, but I think a lot of SL’s friends have views, opinions, theories, etc, that they’ve never felt comfortable sharing, likely because the narrative was shaped in such a dominating way by DL. The passing of time and an understandable reluctance to reopen old wounds no doubt makes it even harder to chip away at a story that was set in stone long ago.

i agree. iam not even sure JC did it. i know that is the narrative, but did JC want eveyone to think he was the infamous mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

I didn't know suzy was sighted wearing the hat that was found on the shelf at the back of her car . Once looking up at a property and once walking down the street with a man .

I don't know if it was a popular hat but seems to be something that would make a sighting more memorable and also didn't know the tradesman in the white van swerved to avoid a collision with a white fiesta again something that you would be more likely to remember and take a mental note .

I think these sightings are more valid than the sightings on Shorrolds Road by the next door neighbour to 37 . His name escapes me its on the tip of my tongue but

i dont buy this reconstruction. there is no evidence SL was wearing the hat that day. it was in her car on the shelf at the back as we all know, and the way the witness stands there watching SL with the mystery man/mr kipper does not make sense. why would the witness be watching when it just appears to be a house viewing.

 

[lee sumner]

Completely agree.

If people have a ‘pet’ theory re this case, and that theory is usually ‘it was JC’, then DV’s book likely won’t appeal to them. Even if you’re not sold on JC being responsible, there are plenty of reasons to be sceptical of DV’s own theory. But trying to read it dispassionately, I found it useful. I keep meaning to go back and read it again actually, the anniversary is probably as good a time as any.

i have a copy of DV book, and i think his theory is nuts. he has his own narrative which i dont believe. the idea SL is buried in the POW is absurd. he just creates more confusion in the case by saying things like SL did not take the keys to shorrolds rd, or SL made up the name mr kipper in her diary which i dont believe.

 

[lee sumner]

Did Suzy Lamplugh have an affair with her killer? Dossier suggests twist in murder case

She's the estate agent whose murder by 'Mr Kipper' has been shrouded in mystery for 24 years. As a new hunt for her body ends in failure, a secret police dossier hints at an astonishing twist.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This article has probably been posted before but I was having a reread and never noticed this paragraph. Its always dismal when you see evidence wasn't kept and stored securely.

Who destroyed phone bills and other records ? Like who gives the authorisation to do that. Surely if a case is unsolved it is even more vital to keep anything that may help resolve the case . The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me .
View attachment 601697

i cant believe phone records that could have traced incoming/outgoing calls to sturgis were lost. as for the 2000 reconstruction. its just more BS from a witness coming forward 14 yrs later.

 

[rvlvr]

he just creates more confusion in the case by saying things like SL did not take the keys to shorrolds rd

How did police gain access to 37SR if SL had the keys?

 

[lee sumner]

How did police gain access to 37SR if SL had the keys?

the back way.

 

[lee sumner]

How did police gain access to 37SR if SL had the keys?

if you watch crimewatch, oct 86, you will see SIO nick carter. he says SL took the keys which were attached to a yellow key fob. carter was leading the investigation back in 1986. if he says she took the keys its the truth, not talking BS like DV who did not even have access to the original case file.

 

[Terryb808]

the back way.

Sadly back then security wasn’t that good, even without the keys entry could easily be made and without any damage.
Also I’d have thought the owner would have had a local key holder given his occupation.

 

[rvlvr]

the back way.

And how would they have gained access to the back of the property? They broke down SL’s front door, why not do the same at 37SR?

if you watch crimewatch, oct 86, you will see SIO nick carter. he says SL took the keys which were attached to a yellow key fob. carter was leading the investigation back in 1986. if he says she took the keys its the truth, not talking BS like DV who did not even have access to the original case file.

Yes, we know what the police assumed she did. And we know that that assumption is what the police believe to be true. But that’s not the same thing as it *being* true.

 

[lee sumner]

Sadly back then security wasn’t that good, even without the keys entry could easily be made and without any damage.
Also I’d have thought the owner would have had a local key holder given his occupation.

yes, i agree. like you said. entry could easily be made without causing much damage. DV does not appear to think about these things. have you read AS book on the case.