UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[su5ie]

Sadly back then security wasn’t that good, even without the keys entry could easily be made and without any damage.
Also I’d have thought the owner would have had a local key holder given his occupation.

A credit card or something similar would get you into most houses or a broom handle through the letter box so I've heard

 

[Terryb808]

yes, i agree. like you said. entry could easily be made without causing much damage. DV does not appear to think about these things. have you read AS book on the case.

Yes read it, at first it seems to make logical sense, however, after years of looking into this case I’d say he’s way of base with his book.

 

[Terryb808]

A credit card or something similar would get you into most houses or a broom handle through the letter box so I've heard

My daughter lived in London after she got her degree, on the day she was to move into a property she was renting we had no keys and the agent wasn’t helpful.
After several hours a trips to see the agent we still had no keys, I said to her “do you want me to open the door”, seconds later we were moving in.
I’m no expert, but studied engineering, so that sort of problem was an easy one to solve.
In the property in seconds, absolutely no damage.

 

[su5ie]

My daughter lived in London after she got her degree, on the day she was to move into a property she was renting we had no keys and the agent wasn’t helpful.
After several hours a trips to see the agent we still had no keys, I said to her “do you want me to open the door”, seconds later we were moving in.
I’m no expert, but studied engineering, so that sort of problem was an easy one to solve.
In the property in seconds, absolutely no damage.

Hi Terry, had to give this thread a wide berth for a while was really affecting me in many ways

Let's hope as the 40th anniversary approaches next year . Things may pick up pace and le might release all files under foi act now main suspect is dead .

Tbh I do think she knew her attacker and I haven't completely ruled out Steve wright involvement . Imo it's a lot of coincidence to digest and disregard it as not possible

 

[lee sumner]

My daughter lived in London after she got her degree, on the day she was to move into a property she was renting we had no keys and the agent wasn’t helpful.
After several hours a trips to see the agent we still had no keys, I said to her “do you want me to open the door”, seconds later we were moving in.
I’m no expert, but studied engineering, so that sort of problem was an easy one to solve.
In the property in seconds, absolutely no damage.

good point.

 

[lee sumner]

And how would they have gained access to the back of the property? They broke down SL’s front door, why not do the same at 37SR?


Yes, we know what the police assumed she did. And we know that that assumption is what the police believe to be true. But that’s not the same thing as it *being* true.

who are you going to believe. the original SIO leading the case, carter, or DV who conducted his own investigation 30 yrs later. i think i will stick with carter.

 

[rvlvr]

What did the SIO say about how police accessed 37SR?

 

[lee sumner]

What did the SIO say about how police accessed 37SR?

he did not say anything. i said the back way, but i have no idea how they got in shorrolds rd. i think DV did an interview with SL boss, mark gurdon. he did not even ask him how they accessed 37SR, or ask him anything about the keys. maybe he did not ask because he would not like what gurdon had to say.

 

[rvlvr]

i think DV did an interview with SL boss, mark gurdon. he did not even ask him how they accessed 37SR, or ask him anything about the keys.

Chapters 28 and 29, if you want to refresh your memory.

 

[lee sumner]

Chapters 28 and 29, if you want to refresh your memory.

even if he did ask gurdon, i dont believe SL is buried in the POW cellar. i know he went to see the pub landlord wife who spoke to SL on the phone and arranged to pick up her missing belongings from the pub at 6pm, but she would not speak to DV to confirm she had spoke to SL on the phone. she was being hostile for some reason.

 

[rvlvr]

He spoke at length to MG, I’d suggest re-reading those chapters.

The problem with the PoW is that it’s a place SL was meant to visit at some point on the Monday, yet police barely paid any attention to the pub and its staff.

DCs Jones and Hill visited SL’s parents’ home, followed by SL’s home (which they broke into), but inexplicably they didn’t visit 37SR - indeed Jones told DV he’d ‘never visited’ 37SR, despite it being the location around which SL’s abduction is meant to be centred.

They leave a note on SL’s door asking flatmate NB to contact them, which he does on the Tuesday afternoon, but by then DS Carter had already held a press conference alongside SL’s parents and AL, and the establishment of the ‘Mr Kipper’ narrative was well underway. Police hadn’t the first clue what had happened the previous afternoon - at that point how could they even be sure NB wasn’t involved, given they’d not traced him? - and the only witness sighting was HR’s highly dubious one of a couple outside 37SR - a location the DCs hadn’t even visited!

‘Keystone cops’, I think NB called them. Sounds about right.

 

[WiseOwl]

He spoke at length to MG, I’d suggest re-reading those chapters.

The problem with the PoW is that it’s a place SL was meant to visit at some point on the Monday, yet police barely paid any attention to the pub and its staff.

DCs Jones and Hill visited SL’s parents’ home, followed by SL’s home (which they broke into), but inexplicably they didn’t visit 37SR - indeed Jones told DV he’d ‘never visited’ 37SR, despite it being the location around which SL’s abduction is meant to be centred.

They leave a note on SL’s door asking flatmate NB to contact them, which he does on the Tuesday afternoon, but by then DS Carter had already held a press conference alongside SL’s parents and AL, and the establishment of the ‘Mr Kipper’ narrative was well underway. Police hadn’t the first clue what had happened the previous afternoon - at that point how could they even be sure NB wasn’t involved, given they’d not traced him? - and the only witness sighting was HR’s highly dubious one of a couple outside 37SR - a location the DCs hadn’t even visited!

‘Keystone cops’, I think NB called them. Sounds about right.

However, on page 10 of AS's book it clearly states that after MG had phoned Fulham police station, the CID department of the station was alerted and two plainclothes detectives were sent to enter and search 37 Shorrolds Road.

Nothing of apparent relevance was found, but a constable was posted on guard duty outside.

 

[rvlvr]

I’ve only read AS’s book once and no longer have a copy - did he say how access to 37SR was made?

I liked AS’s book but from memory there wasn’t a lot of digging being done, other than into SL’s private life.

 

[Klclevi]

I’ve only read AS’s book once and no longer have a copy - did he say how access to 37SR was made?

I liked AS’s book but from memory there wasn’t a lot of digging being done, other than into SL’s private life.

The Suzy Lamplugh story : Stephen, Andrew : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
You can login and read AS book on the Internet archive site (check it out per se). This is where I first read it before I was able to get one off Ebay.

 

[WiseOwl]

I’ve only read AS’s book once and no longer have a copy - did he say how access to 37SR was made?

I liked AS’s book but from memory there wasn’t a lot of digging being done, other than into SL’s private life.

No, it doesn't say how access was made to 37SR unfortunately.

 

[rvlvr]

The thing is, there’s every chance DV’s theory is wrong. But the problem with this case is that assumptions were made on day one and it seems no one ever seriously went, ‘maybe it didn’t happen this way?’ - you can see it in the responses that many of the interviewees give to DV, as if this is the first time in their lives that anyone has ever said, ‘what if Kipper isn’t real, what if she never went to 37SR, what if she went to the pub, etc etc’. Imo the lack of curiosity is bizarre.

The press conference on the Tuesday seems utterly ridiculous with hindsight - there’s not a shred of evidence that a crime has occurred, there’s no murder scene, no body, no ransom demand, not even a robbery, just a name in SL’s appointment diary which looked a bit off… off enough to be fake… fake, and given by an abductor? Or faked by SL herself? At this point no one can possibly say either way but at the press conference Carter gives way to DL (‘I have absolutely no doubt [SL] has been abducted,’ she said), and the rest is history.

Bad enough that they jumped to a conclusion and tried to fit the very little ‘evidence’ they had to support it, but imo it’s absolutely criminal that they fingered Cannan for the crime that they assumed had occurred - without a shred of proof of his involvement - then closed the case. Even worse, this was done in large part at the behest of DL!

 

[Klclevi]

I would love to be able to listen to these interviews but you have to have the access I think somehow.

https://learningonscreen.ac.uk/lbc/...t=&date_end=1996&category=&sort=&page_size=10

Its 12.30 lunchtime here in Aus Monday 28th July. Thinking about SJL today.

 

[lee sumner]

He spoke at length to MG, I’d suggest re-reading those chapters.

The problem with the PoW is that it’s a place SL was meant to visit at some point on the Monday, yet police barely paid any attention to the pub and its staff.

DCs Jones and Hill visited SL’s parents’ home, followed by SL’s home (which they broke into), but inexplicably they didn’t visit 37SR - indeed Jones told DV he’d ‘never visited’ 37SR, despite it being the location around which SL’s abduction is meant to be centred.

They leave a note on SL’s door asking flatmate NB to contact them, which he does on the Tuesday afternoon, but by then DS Carter had already held a press conference alongside SL’s parents and AL, and the establishment of the ‘Mr Kipper’ narrative was well underway. Police hadn’t the first clue what had happened the previous afternoon - at that point how could they even be sure NB wasn’t involved, given they’d not traced him? - and the only witness sighting was HR’s highly dubious one of a couple outside 37SR - a location the DCs hadn’t even visited!

‘Keystone cops’, I think NB called them. Sounds about right.

i cant read DV book. i can, but its hard reading his crazy theory.

 

[lee sumner]

i cant read DV book. i can, but its hard reading his crazy theory.

i cant read DV book. i can, but its hard reading his crazy theory.

HR seen a couple outside 37SR. he is a key witness in my opinion despite telling a lie about SL being taken away in a vehicle. SL arranged the viewing with mr kipper intending to meet him outside, so HR did see SL and mr kipper outside 37SR, just like SL wrote down in her diary. the diary entry and HR sighting line up perfectly.

 

[rvlvr]

HR seen a couple outside 37SR. he is a key witness in my opinion despite telling a lie about SL being taken away in a vehicle. SL arranged the viewing with mr kipper intending to meet him outside, so HR did see SL and mr kipper outside 37SR, just like SL wrote down in her diary. the diary entry and HR sighting line up perfectly.

HR is a terribly unreliable witness. He didn’t positively identify SL, and he also claimed that the couple he’d seen had been arguing and that the woman had been bundled into a car by the man, which AS rather understatedly calls an “exaggeration” - a ‘lie’ might be more accurate, imo.

Later, when police went back to him, we’re told by AS (page 42) that HR “seemed less sure of his story”, with HR conceding that “[a] door banging that he said was number 37’s could have been at another neighbouring house”.

No one else in Shorrolds Road saw anything suspicious that would support his recollection of events either.