UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[tes1984]

he would have followed her back to her car. the drivers door was faulty, which would have made it easier for JC to abduct her. he probably used the same tactic as the night before when he attempted to snatch julia holman. pointing that fake gun at SB would have scared her, plus she was trapped in her mini because of the faulty drivers door.

You're probably right, but if JC recognised SB from Clifton, and vice versa, then I'm wondering if he managed to lull her into a false sense of security. He thought he was God's gift to women, and wasn't at all shy chatting up women in shops.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

Was there DNA proof that Cannan raped SB or was it just assumed so as he was convicted of her murder?
SB was found in Dead Womans Ditch so I assume in water. The Suffolk Strangler left his victims in water apparently so that no DNA evidence would be found.

 

[lee sumner]

You're probably right, but if JC recognised SB from Clifton, and vice versa, then I'm wondering if he managed to lull her into a false sense of security. He thought he was God's gift to women, and wasn't at all shy chatting up women in shops.

you make an interesting point. JC did drink in the avon gorge hotel bar, and as you probably know, SB and her husband richard enjoyed a drink in there.

 

[RichardKimble]

Was there DNA proof that Cannan raped SB or was it just assumed so as he was convicted of her murder?
SB was found in Dead Womans Ditch so I assume in water. The Suffolk Strangler left his victims in water apparently so that no DNA evidence would be found.

Wki has this about the Banks murder.

John Cannan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Police found a cleaning ticket for a shop in Sutton Coldfield and found that Cannan had dropped off a raincoat with red marks on it in late October. He claimed the marks were due to red mud from making love in a park; police found the marks were bloodstains, that could have been from the same blood group as Banks.[26]
The police built up a composite set of Banks' fingerprints from her parents' house, her home and her work. The left thumbprint matched a document in Cannan's flat.[5] He acknowledged that the document came from his flat before he knew about the thumbprint.[26] He was charged with her kidnap and murder on 23 December 1987.[26][34]

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Iirc it wasn't possible to accurately tell. She'd been at her deposition site for a few months, in water.

Was there DNA proof that Cannan raped SB or was it just assumed so as he was convicted of her murder?
SB was found in Dead Womans Ditch so I assume in water. The Suffolk Strangler left his victims in water apparently so that no DNA evidence would be found.

 

[WestLondoner]

His life sentence was for murdering SB. He wasn't charged with her rape. He was convicted of the Reading rape.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

Did Cannan give a name or description for the Bristol-based businessman he claimed he bought SB's car from?

 

[WestLondoner]

Did Cannan give a name or description for the Bristol-based businessman he claimed he bought SB's car from?

Hodgeson.

 

[lee sumner]

She reminds me a bit of SJL in that photo, looks-wise. Similar hair, similar face shape.

she is not that attractive.

 

[lee sumner]

Iirc it wasn't possible to accurately tell. She'd been at her deposition site for a few months, in water.

JC was very sloppy the way he disposed of SB body. left out in the open. if he snatched lamplugh her body must be hidden really well. not being found nearly 40 yrs later.

 

[lee sumner]

One word in defence of the woman who many years later said she saw JC looking in the window of Sturgis on the Sunday, the day before Suzy disappeared. Given the huge and immediate media interest in the case, and given the fact that it happened in Fulham, if the woman was a local she might well have remembered the near coincidence in timing of the two events.

Although this info only came to public attention much later, after the new police investigation, did she in fact first contact the police in 1986? We simply don't know, and given the seemingly multiple police -ups, it seems quite possible that she did. But it's the sort of thing people remember for years, although of course the memory often plays tricks.

I, for example, can remember exactly what I was doing at lunchtime on Wednesday 17 August 1983. My memory of it is excellent. I was having lunch on a terrace outside a motel with a Canadian couple (the woman was a news anchor in Saskatchewan), a young Californian bloke from Berkeley, and an English woman from Hertfordshire. I don't keep a diary by the way. I can picture the scene clearly. I was having trouble with the zip on my windcheater, and the others found this hilarious. In the morning the Californian and I had climbed Uluru (Ayers Rock) - it wasn't controversial then, but it is banned now.

I wouldn't know the precise date of all this except for one thing. We had stayed in the Inland Motel the night before. I was in the bar until the early hours. We left to go back to Alice Springs that afternoon. In Alice that night a woman was killed in a hit-and-run right outside the campsite where I had pitched my tent. I heard the bang but didn't realise the seriousness of the event until later, in the morning. But I still wouldn't have been able to tell you the date 40+ years on as this event has no record on the internet that I can find.

However there was another incident back at the Inland Motel the same night, in the early hours of 18 August. I can check the date of this on Wikipedia:

"Douglas John Edward Crabbe (born 1947) is an Australian murderer currently imprisoned in Perth for a multiple murder which occurred when he drove his 25-tonne Mack truck into the crowded bar of a motel [ie the Inland] at the base of Uluru (Ayers Rock) on 18 August 1983. Five people were killed and sixteen seriously injured."

Douglas Crabbe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I turned my radio on in my tent to catch the morning news and wondered why they were talking about the exact place I had been the previous day. Of course with the full shocking story emerging quite soon I can remember the events of the 18th August even more clearly than those of the 17th,

Not sure if I could remember too well exactly what all the people I encountered at the motel looked like, even the ones I spent some time with, but I do have a vague image of many of them I'll talk to anybody when I've had a few drinks so there were quite a few conversations. I certainly don't remember seeing Crabbe.

EDIT The censored word isn't as rude as you might think!

photographic memory.

 

[lee sumner]

I think the book is an entertaining read (if that's your thing) but DV, to me, is ramping up drama for the sake of it, and disses stuff that doesn't fit his narrative. The books reads more like a novel than serious research, with himself as the avenging crimesolver and his partner as his faithful, dogged sidekick. He ignores BW's "sighting" completely, he undermines WJ - not just to undermine her, but to make her look foolish. He goes out of his way to make CV look dodgy, and his ex-wife too; he makes a drama out of his aborted meeting with AL.

If DV had turned up on my doorstep wanting to discuss a 40 year old unsolved disappearance I think I'd tell him where to stuff his research too. .

I think he makes some interesting points, especially around the behaviour of the Lamplughs and the pursuit of Cannan, but I find his conclusion rather hard to believe, personally.

i think DV was a police officer in the met for 3 yrs. i dont think he was good at his job. he is not objective. i bet the other officers thought he was nuts, ha, ha.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

she is not that attractive.

Lee!! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!

 

[lee sumner]

Lee!! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!

true, ha, ha.

 

[lee sumner]

i was thinking the same thing. maybe SL was not the target that day. was mr kipper after any female EA, and SL got unlucky. if so kipper also got lucky with SL because of how attractive she was. if she did go 37/SRD, then i think he would have let her arrive first, so was he watching waiting for her to arrive. if so where on shorrolds rd was he watching and waiting.

 

[Klclevi]

SJL has made her own admission to JH a month before she disappeared that she was seeing someone that was "unobtainable'". Thats not JC. Its a married man. You do not say that to someone just off the cuff. That was SJL basically admitting she was having an affair with someone and it was not AL obviously.

' But Jon believes something Suzy told him may hold the key to her vanishing without a trace. She said she was seeing another man who was "'unobtainable". Jon says , "I'm sure she meant she was having an affair with a married man. Maybe she got into something she couldn't get out of, maybe she made too many demands on him and he ended by killing her.

I also think that the witness statements from Marianna Jagoda are interesting - now this house in Langthorne street (105 I think) that she saw a woman fitting SJL description in the front yard of. Has this ever been searched or investigated more ? IMO it makes way more sense to the car scenario being left around the corner at Stevenage .

It could be that the drivers seat was pushed back to reach the hat on the back shelf in the first instance (if the MJ sighting is correct and SJL had a hat on - but it does not explain how it got back there.

The car - with no other obvious prints or fibres or hair ( if the perp was in the car it is likely he has left something somehow its not just about prints) is the key here. She has pulled up that lunchtime probably just behind another car (could even have been his) and badly parked in haste. She may (or may not have pushed the drivers seat back to reach the hat on the back shelf) and proceeded to meet him (hence the MJ sightings)

The only other explanation is she had more than one hat. DL said she loved hats, so its not totally out of the question.

JMO

 

[WestLondoner]

JC had actually been married and had a kid. He could have used these as a convenient way to explain away his unavailability and lack of a place to take her back to (which were because he was living in a prison hostel).

 

[tes1984]

JC had actually been married and had a kid. He could have used these as a convenient way to explain away his unavailability and lack of a place to take her back to (which were because he was living in a prison hostel).

JC also had the Bristol connection via AR. He weaseled his way in with her by asking for legal advice on how to get visitation rights to see his daughter.

 

[tes1984]

It could be that the drivers seat was pushed back to reach the hat on the back shelf in the first instance (if the MJ sighting is correct and SJL had a hat on - but it does not explain how it got back there.

The car - with no other obvious prints or fibres or hair ( if the perp was in the car it is likely he has left something somehow its not just about prints) is the key here. She has pulled up that lunchtime probably just behind another car (could even have been his) and badly parked in haste. She may (or may not have pushed the drivers seat back to reach the hat on the back shelf)

Pushing back the driver's seat is a common MO amongst rapists, although such attacks usually take place in less public locations.

JC had previous form for wiping down vehicles and wearing gloves during attacks.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Is this possible sighting thought to be of the same couple who were seen in Bishop's Park drinking champagne?